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> Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin, UFC 116 Main Event
FH's Opinion...
Who ya got?
Shane Carwin [ 8 ] ** [53.33%]
Brock Lesnar [ 7 ] ** [46.67%]
Total Votes: 15
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AussieLad
post Oct 2 2009, 06:10 AM
Post #11


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Just sat down and rewatched lesnar vs Mir.

I think this fight really highlights how limited lesnar is in terms of all round skills. His striking is fairly basic, and i think if the UFC had a really good evasive striker, someone who forced lesnar to chase him and picked his counter shots, and stuffing take downs (easier said than done) it would be failry easy to outpoint brock. A machida-esque fighter would have little problems beating lesnar.

Mir had some good striking exchanges, but made really obvious errors. Dont throw a knee at the wrestler, he is going to take you down and lay and pray. And when you strike with him, dont keep coming forward. Get in and get out. Coming forward is inviting the clinch. I wonder what they thought there gameplan should be from watching that series of fuck ups.

Also, despite being a very good wrestler, lesnars gameplan on the ground is very very basic. When he gets mir down, he is in half gueard and is content to stay there. He doesnt try and improve position at all, not once going for the mount. Sure, he didnt need to, as there was nothing mir could do to get out or fight back. But can lesnar afford that strategy against someone as big, and solid at wrestling as carwin. I think if he tries that, carwin should be able to force lesnar to scramble by bucking his way out. We may get to see if lesnar can indeed move from half guard to side control to mount if carwin forces him to. And if carwin can exploit lesnars weaknesses at striking enough to land one of his bombs, i just dont see anyone taking one of those shots and staying standing, not even a melon headed lesnar

Really looking forward to this fight
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The CEO
post Oct 2 2009, 07:32 AM
Post #12


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QUOTE (AussieLad @ Oct 2 2009, 07:10 AM) *
Also, despite being a very good wrestler, lesnars gameplan on the ground is very very basic.


I don't think so....and I think he can do the same to Carwin....

I agree with the guys in the video below about Lesnar's ground work...that he uses his size and strength on the ground at an advanced level....enough to completely work over a 240 pound, BJJ Specialist...

What Lesnar did against Mir is probably 50 times more advanced than Roy Nelson's fat bully, schoolyard, pin and pat against Slice...who has as much ground game as a fish out of water I might add...lol


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AussieLad
post Oct 2 2009, 09:02 AM
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I'm not saying that what lesnar achieved in there wasnt impressive, or lacking in skill. Just that it wasnt varied, as he went straight for that same mount both rounds the first oppurtunity he got. It was obviously the centrepiece of his game plan to get that half gaurd, and it was highly effective. But as those guys pointed out, his technique was aided significantly by the size and strength advantage he had over Mir. I really dont think this will translate against carwin.

1) Carwin isnt going to be throwing kicks or knees. Putting yourself on one foot (or even worse no feet in the case of the jump knee) against that sort of bulk coming at you, well you better hope that strike lands and finishes the fight. Both take downs in the 2nd round were the direct result of mir launching knees and making himself vulnerable

2) Because carwin wont be throwing kicks or knees, he will be in a good stance to sprawl. Lets face it, he knows what lesnars bread and butter is, and will be looking for it. He's a solid wrestler, and i think he will stuff lesnars shoot attempts, possibly ending up on top himself. Thats not to say that lesnar wont take him down eventually, but i think that it will be much more likely as a result of lesnar driving carwin up against the fence, then dropping to scoop the knees out from under him.

Once lesnar realises that he cant shoot and take carwin down, he will be forced to trade punches, and look for oppurtunities to press carwin back against the cage. This should eliminate the bulk of brocks main weapon

Great video by the way. Highlights that there is alot of skill that goes into the ground game, even something as simplistic looking as what brock did to mir. Not just anyone could do that to someone as great on the ground as frank
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The CEO
post Oct 2 2009, 09:29 AM
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Carwin looks awkward and stiff to me, Aussie...the way he moves....vulnerable in the legs too (as is Lesnar to some degree)....but I think Lesnar's got muscles Carwin doesn't even know exist....and that Lesnar WILL take him down and "maul him with technique" like they said above...
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AussieLad
post Oct 2 2009, 06:05 PM
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LOL. What was the guy going to do about it... nothing
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Mandirigma
post Oct 5 2009, 05:03 PM
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Carwin also has this excellent wrestling background.. Lesnar will have a hard time taking him down.. I smell blood... this will be one of the bloodiest event in UFC...
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Run and Gun Game...
post Jun 20 2010, 07:02 AM
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Fight is only a couple of weeks out, so who ya got?
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Warlord
post Jun 20 2010, 10:07 PM
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Carwin as well, though I might have to re-think it now that Smarmy is picking him too.
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lloyd mayflower
post Jun 21 2010, 08:00 AM
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Went with Carwin. Not seen him really so its more a pick of who I want to win. Although I am sure sooner or later Brock will be found out with brutal consequences
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Run and Gun Game...
post Jun 21 2010, 08:35 AM
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I went with carwin as well. I think Brock is stronger, and a better wrestler, but Carwin is worlds above brock in the stand up game.

Remember how hard a time couture and ortiz had at taking chuck down once chuck liddell learned to defend a takedown? And lets be honest, Carwin is no slouch when it comes to wrestling. I think he is just well rounded enough to ko Fat head "aka" Lesner
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