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> The Greatest Heavyweight of All Time...
Run and Gun Game...
post Jul 13 2010, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (BigG @ Jul 10 2010, 12:47 AM) *
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
4. Foreman
5. Lewis
6. Marciano
7. Frazier
8. Holyfield
9. Tyson
10. Johnson



1. Ali

2. louis

3. holmes

4. marciano

5. frasier

6. tyson

7. holyfield

8. dempsey

9. patterson

10. forman

I omitted lennox lewis for two reasons, i consider him a superheavyweight and its not really fair to compair him to past champions. Hell with their size alone the klits could jab and clintch some of the all time greats to a decision. he is kinda like brock lesner in mma, very big but very average. (although lewis has huge power.) The second reason i ommited him was being ko'd twice by one punch in his prime.
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Guest_Fitz_*
post Jul 13 2010, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Jul 14 2010, 06:15 AM) *
I omitted lennox lewis for two reasons, i consider him a superheavyweight and its not really fair to compair him to past champions. Hell with their size alone the klits could jab and clintch some of the all time greats to a decision. he is kinda like brock lesner in mma, very big but very average. (although lewis has huge power.) The second reason i ommited him was being ko'd twice by one punch in his prime.


It's your top 10. But IMO, very poor reasons to exclude someone. Especially the first one. He is a heavyweight, he gets rated as a heavyweight.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Jul 14 2010, 12:30 AM
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QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 13 2010, 11:08 PM) *
It's your top 10. But IMO, very poor reasons to exclude someone. Especially the first one. He is a heavyweight, he gets rated as a heavyweight.


Agreed. I might also add how did Patterson make the top 10 and no place for Jack Johnson?

As far as weights go, yeah it's no secret that some of the old timers would end up fighting in the CW or even LHW division these days. All you can do in this instance is look at how they dominated the division in the era in which they fought. In this case Lewis would piss into the top 10.

The way humans are growing and evolving, give it another 100 years the standard weight for a HW will be 400 pounds. Valuev is ahead of his time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Run and Gun Game...
post Jul 14 2010, 01:19 AM
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Jack Johnson was a ground breaker, but not an all time great fighter in my opinion, two completely differant things
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Warlord
post Jul 14 2010, 01:31 AM
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QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Jul 14 2010, 02:19 AM) *
Jack Johnson was a ground breaker, but not an all time great fighter in my opinion, two completely differant things

Amen. I love Johnson, absolutely fucking LOVE his personality. But I think people ranking him that high (in the top 10) are doing so because of the great documentary Unforgivable Blackness. Before that, I NEVER saw anyone ranking him in the top 10. Now it's like a fucking prerequisite.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Jul 14 2010, 01:36 AM
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QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Jul 14 2010, 01:19 AM) *
Jack Johnson was a ground breaker, but not an all time great fighter in my opinion, two completely differant things


Part of my criteria is how to did a guy dominate his division when he fought? Johnson could only fight who they put in front of him. Ultra avoided he had to travel all the way to Australia to get a shot at the title. Now these are the days when Australia was a really long way away. Talk about trying to duck a guy!!

You might argue that he fought in a weak HW divison, but then so did Tyson and he did what Tyson also did, put opponents away impressively. I think Johnson was certainly a speciman for the times and a helluva more impressive champ than say Floyd Patterson.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Jul 14 2010, 01:37 AM
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QUOTE (Warlord @ Jul 14 2010, 01:31 AM) *
Amen. I love Johnson, absolutely fucking LOVE his personality. But I think people ranking him that high (in the top 10) are doing so because of the great documentary Unforgivable Blackness. Before that, I NEVER saw anyone ranking him in the top 10. Now it's like a fucking prerequisite.


I've been meaning to check that doco out. Cheers for the reminder.
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Warlord
post Jul 14 2010, 01:43 AM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Jul 14 2010, 01:36 AM) *
Part of my criteria is how to did a guy dominate his division when he fought? Johnson could only fight who they put in front of him. Ultra avoided he had to travel all the way to Australia to get a shot at the title. Now these are the days when Australia was a really long way away. Talk about trying to duck a guy!!

You might argue that he fought in a weak HW divison, but then so did Tyson and he did what Tyson also did, put opponents away impressively. I think Johnson was certainly a speciman for the times and a helluva more impressive champ than say Floyd Patterson.

Actually, Johnson ducked a number of highly-rated black contenders after becoming champion. Not to diminish Johnson, because I love the guy to death, but I really do think he's being over-rated by certain segments of the boxing community.
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neophyte7
post Jul 14 2010, 06:43 AM
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Jack Johnson belongs there in the list. MIKE TYSON'S pathetic ass belongs no where near it...
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JLUVBABY
post Jul 14 2010, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (Warlord @ Jul 14 2010, 01:43 AM) *
Actually, Johnson ducked a number of highly-rated black contenders after becoming champion. Not to diminish Johnson, because I love the guy to death, but I really do think he's being over-rated by certain segments of the boxing community.


johnson fought a number of the most highly ranked black fighters of his time (joe jeanette, sam mcvae and peter jackson to name a few of them that are actually listed on his record)... but if he missed a few it was because that wasnt where the real money is... but if you look at it from that angle then jack dempseys name shouldnt be mentioned with the all time great either... he ducked harry willis who remained number one contender for several years... as for jack johnson i wouldnt say he's considered great because of his ground breaking.. his ground breaking was the biggest albatross a man could have ever asked for... the dude was miserable and most believe had to wind up selling his title to go back to living a regular life... in his prime, up until the time of his reign, there was no better heavyweight period all times... and his skill level for that period in time i would think has him beating some other all time greats.... its rumored he actually fought and beat dempsey during the 20's in some unsanctioned fights and it is fact that he fought exebitions through the 1930's when he was an old man... he beat the best of his time, what more can be asked of the guy?... to say jack johnson is not a great in my opinion is like calling ali or joe louis great but ranking them in the second teir of great fighters 5-10... if johnson isnt a great fighter than for sure their are others considered great fighters that need to be re-evaluated... dempsey, marciano, louis to a certain extent and i'll explain why i say that... prime for prime jersey joe walcott was every bit as good and skilled as louis... walcotts just came later in his career... i could go on and on but its a disgrace to the guy to not put him amongst the immortals of the division and my opinion has nothing to do with a documentary... look up old time ring editor nat fletcher and see what his opinion of the guy was... i dont usually have much to say bout certain comments but thats a slap in a great fighters face to say he dont belong amongst the all time best heavies... like i said he belongs way before a marciano or a dempsey or a tyson or a holyfield or a guy like lennox lewis.... in his prime, for his time, he was damn near an innovator of the sport... him and a guy by the name of joe gans, a light weight that i guess isnt great either, just a ground breaker.. lol...
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