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> Anyone notice there are not that many one punch KO artists anymore??
PR316
post Jul 25 2010, 06:49 PM
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In the mythical matchups section, I believe Johnny Blaze made this point, citing that the proper technique on how to really sit on your punches is a lost art. But I've also heard from others in some circles that the size of the gloves plays a part now.

I mean nowadays 154 pounders wear 10 oz gloves as opposed to the 8 oz gloves they used to wear. I mean its known that these days the gloves are more padded than they were back in the 70s as well.

But then again, we do have some guys that are legitimage KO punchers, just not as many as before. These days, the guys we can say are legit KO punchers are Darchinian, Juanma Lopez, Gamboa, Angulo, and a few others. But not nearly as prevalent as before. Not too long ago, we had the likes of Trinidad, Corrales, Jose Luis Lopez, Manny Pacquiao at 126 was devastating, Tszyu, Roy Jones at 168, etc.


Wondering what most of y'all feel out there. Because I do feel that there aren't that many KO artists anymore. I say its a combination of both the gloves being more padded and that the true way of sittting on your punches is becoming a lost art.

What do you fellas say?
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Guest_Fitz_*
post Jul 25 2010, 07:15 PM
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Interesting point. Not sure what it is, but I wouldn't think it's all about punching technique. I think there will be some cases where they don't use technique correctly. But I don't think it's the prime reason. For me fighters are generally born with power or not. Technique from them on will compliment you, but it isn't the be all, end all. I don't think trainers are that incompetent where they can't teach to throw a punch correctly.
I think your take on glove size is more plausible.
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JonnyBlaze
post Jul 25 2010, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE (PR316 @ Jul 25 2010, 06:49 PM) *
In the mythical matchups section, I believe Johnny Blaze made this point, citing that the proper technique on how to really sit on your punches is a lost art. But I've also heard from others in some circles that the size of the gloves plays a part now.

I mean nowadays 154 pounders wear 10 oz gloves as opposed to the 8 oz gloves they used to wear. I mean its known that these days the gloves are more padded than they were back in the 70s as well.

But then again, we do have some guys that are legitimage KO punchers, just not as many as before. These days, the guys we can say are legit KO punchers are Darchinian, Juanma Lopez, Gamboa, Angulo, and a few others. But not nearly as prevalent as before. Not too long ago, we had the likes of Trinidad, Corrales, Jose Luis Lopez, Manny Pacquiao at 126 was devastating, Tszyu, Roy Jones at 168, etc.


Wondering what most of y'all feel out there. Because I do feel that there aren't that many KO artists anymore. I say its a combination of both the gloves being more padded and that the true way of sittting on your punches is becoming a lost art.

What do you fellas say?

PR,me and you might have to make our own thread since we obviously have very similiar interests in boxing..

Also,you're right that I did make the point about how guys don't know how to sit on their punches these days through not using the proper technique to do so and have been ok with throwing arm punches like they never left the amateurs..Glove size has nothing to do with this..Jack Dempsey broke a 300 lb sparring partner's jaw with one punc in 16 oz. gloves..We've seen footage of Joe Louis putting guys down with one punch in sparring as well(mostly left hooks or rights)..2 ozs. do not make a puncher lose his punch unless he is arm punching..

Today,we call some fighters punchers when they really are only arm punching but have heavy hands..If they learned to use their whole body and not 3/4 of it or whatever,we'd find out there are a lot more guys with one punch power..Yet,they are ok with what they have right now or don't know any better..When you first box,you only see glimpses of what you have inside you..I never thought I'd be fast when I first started boxing but I found ways to be looser and more relaxed and now I have welterweights telling me they have problems seeing my punches(I'm a heavyweight,200 lbs)..Technique works wonders as well..By throwing a straighter punch,it becomes faster naturally and is a lot harder to see..

Punching is a lost art and if anyone on here says it's the gloves,you're wrong without a doubt in my mind..If Arcel trained Malignaggi,Arcel would make Malignaggi a good puncher..No one is that weak of a puncher to only have 5 KOs in around 30 fights unless they are strictly arm punching and using absolutely none of their weight..He fights like an amateur would..Think speed and bring the punch back as quickly as possibly without following through..Who follows through with their punches today??

You may say Louis and Dempsey are big punchers to begin with but if they were arm punching,they would not be 1 punch KO guys..Also,I have worn an 8 and 10 oz. glove and there is barely a difference..If you can't KO a guy in 10s,you can't with 8s..

This post has been edited by JonnyBlaze: Jul 25 2010, 07:43 PM
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JonnyBlaze
post Jul 25 2010, 08:01 PM
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OK,wanna make this a little more clear about the gloves..Do any of you think that a guy who has natural power and punches using all of his weight is going to be effected by 2 ozs in a glove??If he is a 1 punch KO guy in 8 ozs,somehow he won't have that 1 punch power when putting on a glove that is 2 ozs more??Guys who have 1 punch KO power are also probably dropping guys in the gym with 16 ozs with 1 punch..
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Guest_Fitz_*
post Jul 25 2010, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jul 26 2010, 10:38 AM) *
Jack Dempsey broke a 300 lb sparring partner's jaw with one punc


Maybe the guy had had a skull like me and you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Gloves were different back then, I'm sure 16oz then are different to 16oz now. I agree some fighters don't use their power properly, as you gain power through your legs and core. Though I'm not a pure expert, but I think you are making it out like it's much more difficult to learn to punch correctly. I don't think learning to pivot, and use your hips to gain power is hard at all. The hardest part of it all is making it a habit if you were previously throwing arm punches (which just about everyone did when beginning). It's more breaking the habit I find hard, though I don't actually find learning the technique difficult.
The other factor is, fighters don't seem to be fighting at their natural weights either these days which could play a factor.

But like some names you mentioned before PR, I think we still have some of our one punch KO artists. Darchinyan, Lopez, Pavlik, Abraham, R. Marquez, David Haye, Maidana, Danny Green, Cintron, Pacquiao (more in the lower classes), Wlad (if he actually went for it a bit more) and if Valero was still a live, he would be there too.
Some of the names I mentioned may be borderline, but I think they have the stopping power in their hands. I think we just don't have the superstars like we did in the past like Tyson, Trinidad, Hearns and Foreman. We don't just have many pure boxing stars like we did with Tyson. I think we have declined a bit, but I think we still have some there, some of them are just not recognised because they are in lower weight classes, or just not great fighters.


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Spyder
post Jul 25 2010, 09:43 PM
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Pacman is BY FAR the premiere KO artist. People tune in to see him knock someone's block off. I like the list that Fitz put up...with the exception of Green lol...anytime I watch those guys, I expect to see their opponent unconscious.

I think we might be looking at it a little differently than what is actual reality though. Guys fighting today, grew up watching Roy, Hopkins, Mayweather, De la Hoya...fighters that were more boxers than punchers. Just like any other sport, the next generation always tries to emulate the previous one. Like how everyone in the NBA grew up trying to be Michael Jordan...I just think that THIS generation learned to box by trying to be fast, and not get hit.

Maybe after the Pacman reign has ushered in its own group of Manny Pacquiao wanna-be's...we'll get a wave of KO artists, and can start talking about "What happened to the boxer?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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JonnyBlaze
post Jul 25 2010, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (Fitz @ Jul 25 2010, 08:21 PM) *
Maybe the guy had had a skull like me and you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Gloves were different back then, I'm sure 16oz then are different to 16oz now. I agree some fighters don't use their power properly, as you gain power through your legs and core. Though I'm not a pure expert, but I think you are making it out like it's much more difficult to learn to punch correctly. I don't think learning to pivot, and use your hips to gain power is hard at all. The hardest part of it all is making it a habit if you were previously throwing arm punches (which just about everyone did when beginning). It's more breaking the habit I find hard, though I don't actually find learning the technique difficult.
The other factor is, fighters don't seem to be fighting at their natural weights either these days which could play a factor.

But like some names you mentioned before PR, I think we still have some of our one punch KO artists. Darchinyan, Lopez, Pavlik, Abraham, R. Marquez, David Haye, Maidana, Danny Green, Cintron, Pacquiao (more in the lower classes), Wlad (if he actually went for it a bit more) and if Valero was still a live, he would be there too.
Some of the names I mentioned may be borderline, but I think they have the stopping power in their hands. I think we just don't have the superstars like we did in the past like Tyson, Trinidad, Hearns and Foreman. We don't just have many pure boxing stars like we did with Tyson. I think we have declined a bit, but I think we still have some there, some of them are just not recognised because they are in lower weight classes, or just not great fighters.

You don't think learning to punch using all your body properly isn't that hard??Well that's cause you haven't tried to do it or have done it..I can tell you that it is A LOT harder than you know..It's hard as hell..Learning to pivot isn't hard but learning to pivot properly is..I was pivoting my first week ever in boxing but i was pivoting away from my punch like I've seen everyone else do..You pivot toward your opponent and it shifts the weight to your front leg and actually makes your right hand about 3 inches longer..It also keeps you balanced if you miss a punch because your foot locks into place and makes it difficult to lean,unless you are punching up or down at a person..I wouldn't of believed any of this to be possible(like your punching becoming 3 inches longer),unless I had done it,which I have..It's still not automatic either so I'm not an expert myself,but I can do it..

You're also right about fighters not fighting at their natural weights..I don't think this is much of a factor in punching power though since if you weigh more,you have that much more weight to use but it may effect your speed which is where a lot of a person power comes from..Speed+weight=power..There are other factors but thats as basic as it can get..People can be heavy handed and things like that as well that will effect it..

Wlad.,Abraham, and Pac-man all have good power..With Pac-man,it is a combo between the guy not seeing the punches and Pac-man's power..We definitely are missing our Hearns,Foreman,Archie,Joe Louis,and guys like them..The real problem may be the trainers though..Who is the Ray Arcel or Jack Blackburn of our time??We have Roach,Atlas now,and Steward right now that are still in my opinion students of the game but are the best of what we have..Arcel and Blackburn were masters and saw strengths and weaknesses that guy don't point out today..They studied the details of boxing which is what made perfection in their fighters..Look at Arcel's and Blackburn's fighters and you don't see that kinda stuff today..Joe Walcott,Ezzard Charles,Joe Louis,Tony Zale,Barney Ross,Larry Holmes,Ray Robinson(with Blackburn),Duran,Benny Leonard,and the list can keep going on..Why don't we have those kinda guys today??Because we don't have the guys behind the fighters..I'd like for someone to tell me it was a coincidence that Arcel had 20 world champs..Fuckin 20!!Arcel----"I don't consider myself a trainer,I consider myself a teacher."--Sickness!!

This post has been edited by JonnyBlaze: Jul 25 2010, 10:02 PM
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JonnyBlaze
post Jul 25 2010, 09:48 PM
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Awesome read..You guys gotta read this..All about Arcel..Lots of quotes..

The Master---Ray Arcel
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Guest_Fitz_*
post Jul 25 2010, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE (Spyder @ Jul 26 2010, 12:43 PM) *
I think we might be looking at it a little differently than what is actual reality though. Guys fighting today, grew up watching Roy, Hopkins, Mayweather, De la Hoya...fighters that were more boxers than punchers. Just like any other sport, the next generation always tries to emulate the previous one. Like how everyone in the NBA grew up trying to be Michael Jordan...I just think that THIS generation learned to box by trying to be fast, and not get hit.


Spot on. I was going to mention something about this before, but you worded it better. That to me has a lot to do with it as well.
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JonnyBlaze
post Jul 26 2010, 04:18 AM
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QUOTE (Spyder @ Jul 25 2010, 09:43 PM) *
Pacman is BY FAR the premiere KO artist. People tune in to see him knock someone's block off. I like the list that Fitz put up...with the exception of Green lol...anytime I watch those guys, I expect to see their opponent unconscious.

I think we might be looking at it a little differently than what is actual reality though. Guys fighting today, grew up watching Roy, Hopkins, Mayweather, De la Hoya...fighters that were more boxers than punchers. Just like any other sport, the next generation always tries to emulate the previous one. Like how everyone in the NBA grew up trying to be Michael Jordan...I just think that THIS generation learned to box by trying to be fast, and not get hit.

Maybe after the Pacman reign has ushered in its own group of Manny Pacquiao wanna-be's...we'll get a wave of KO artists, and can start talking about "What happened to the boxer?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I think you're definitely right and a reason why is all the new trainers who were learning from the Roy,Hopkins,DLH,Mayweather era are going to try to push that stuff on fighters..It's basically evolution but in a boxing ring..Guys coming up in the US want to be flashy and showboat like Roy did..European guys will look like the Klitchkos or someone like someone like Kessler..It's all about the trainers and who the boxer looks up to from boxing..One guy at my gym thinks hes the next Floyd and another thinks he's the next Tyson..Yet,I still believe it comes back to the trainer..They show you how they want you to punch and how they want you to stand to be effective..
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