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> Anyone notice there are not that many one punch KO artists anymore??
gravytrain
post Jul 26 2010, 09:42 AM
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I think it's what's already been mentioned: fighters get used to amateur fighting and are only using 70% of their power on big shots as pros and trainers aren't trying to improve on it.
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PR316
post Jul 26 2010, 10:06 AM
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QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jul 25 2010, 10:47 PM) *
You don't think learning to punch using all your body properly isn't that hard??Well that's cause you haven't tried to do it or have done it..I can tell you that it is A LOT harder than you know..It's hard as hell..Learning to pivot isn't hard but learning to pivot properly is..I was pivoting my first week ever in boxing but i was pivoting away from my punch like I've seen everyone else do..You pivot toward your opponent and it shifts the weight to your front leg and actually makes your right hand about 3 inches longer..It also keeps you balanced if you miss a punch because your foot locks into place and makes it difficult to lean,unless you are punching up or down at a person..I wouldn't of believed any of this to be possible(like your punching becoming 3 inches longer),unless I had done it,which I have..It's still not automatic either so I'm not an expert myself,but I can do it..

You're also right about fighters not fighting at their natural weights..I don't think this is much of a factor in punching power though since if you weigh more,you have that much more weight to use but it may effect your speed which is where a lot of a person power comes from..Speed+weight=power..There are other factors but thats as basic as it can get..People can be heavy handed and things like that as well that will effect it..

Wlad.,Abraham, and Pac-man all have good power..With Pac-man,it is a combo between the guy not seeing the punches and Pac-man's power..We definitely are missing our Hearns,Foreman,Archie,Joe Louis,and guys like them..The real problem may be the trainers though..Who is the Ray Arcel or Jack Blackburn of our time??We have Roach,Atlas now,and Steward right now that are still in my opinion students of the game but are the best of what we have..Arcel and Blackburn were masters and saw strengths and weaknesses that guy don't point out today..They studied the details of boxing which is what made perfection in their fighters..Look at Arcel's and Blackburn's fighters and you don't see that kinda stuff today..Joe Walcott,Ezzard Charles,Joe Louis,Tony Zale,Barney Ross,Larry Holmes,Ray Robinson(with Blackburn),Duran,Benny Leonard,and the list can keep going on..Why don't we have those kinda guys today??Because we don't have the guys behind the fighters..I'd like for someone to tell me it was a coincidence that Arcel had 20 world champs..Fuckin 20!!Arcel----"I don't consider myself a trainer,I consider myself a teacher."--Sickness!!


Its EXTREMELY HARD... I wasn't pivoting correctly at all my first couple of weeks in the gym. In fact I felt awkward, was losing my balance and found myself just watching everyone so that I could get it down. Repetition was the key. Nowadays I feel much more light on my feet and more relaxed, able to punch and not expend too much energy while keeping balance and the hand speed comes naturally when you learn to shorten and straighten your punches.

QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Jul 25 2010, 10:48 PM) *
Awesome read..You guys gotta read this..All about Arcel..Lots of quotes..

The Master---Ray Arcel


We lost a great man in Ray Arcel. One could only imagine the wonders he would be able to do for some of these guys out there. He bread fighters that were machines in that ring seemingly. Roberto Duran is a prime example.
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HaydelHammer
post Jul 26 2010, 12:41 PM
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punchers have fallen hard over the past few years when paired against pure boxers.

Punchers are entertaining yes, and if brought up right can cash out pretty quickly but as soon as they go up against "the boxer" it usually they will get labeled as "exposed" after the humbling beating they took at the hands of the crafty slick boxer. Then it's usually down hill imo for the puncher unless they freak show him again for $$$ b/c he damn sure aint beating the guy that mauled him.

Hamed fell hard man.

pop quiz....who (puncher) feel harder than Hamed after his beating?

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JonnyBlaze
post Jul 26 2010, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE (PR316 @ Jul 26 2010, 10:06 AM) *
Its EXTREMELY HARD... I wasn't pivoting correctly at all my first couple of weeks in the gym. In fact I felt awkward, was losing my balance and found myself just watching everyone so that I could get it down. Repetition was the key. Nowadays I feel much more light on my feet and more relaxed, able to punch and not expend too much energy while keeping balance and the hand speed comes naturally when you learn to shorten and straighten your punches.

We lost a great man in Ray Arcel. One could only imagine the wonders he would be able to do for some of these guys out there. He bread fighters that were machines in that ring seemingly. Roberto Duran is a prime example.

This is why I love talking about boxing with you and always post in your threads that you make..I feel like we're normally on the same page and since And The New left,theres one less person to talk about old school guys with..I can tell you are a bigger fan of old school guys than guys today,like me..I still love boxing today but there is too much lost art..Guys who say that if fighters fought how they did back then that it wouldn't work are ridiculous..Details are not so much a focus today as it was..How many guys today can we say have perfected the art of boxing??NONE..If anyone knows anyone,please tell..

Glad you liked the article..Arcel was the best along with Blackburn in my opinion..As far as accomplishments,Arcel blows everyone out the water..
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PR316
post Jul 26 2010, 07:33 PM
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^^^I think Bernard Hopkins is the closest that comes to perfecting everything. I want to say that either Freddy Roach or Naazim Richardson said that.

Maybe he's not what we could call a KO puncher, but his punches are sharp, crisp, and have alot of bodyweight behind them. As he got older of course he became more safety first. But in his younger days, he could do it all.

But most of the guys seem to go on their athletic ability and pick up what they can because of it. Case in point with guys like Yuriorkis Gamboa. Fast, powerful, athletic, and flashy. But not too much in terms of true skill IMO. If he faces either a Lopez, Caballero, or Chris John, I think his flaws will be exposed. But thats another issue for another time.

One of the most difficult things to learn is putting the feet in harmony with whatever punch your going to throw. It takes time to find it. You gotta just work on it till its an exhaustion really. Its as mentally draining as it is physical.

I loved watching Roberto Duran. He didn't necessarily dance around, but he was like a cat in the way he was able to move inside, and step to either the left or the right and deliver brutal bodyshots. And the fluidity in which he could punch to either the head and body, back up to the head and back down to the body and you can just tell by watching the film that EVERY PUNCH hurts the opponent. It makes me wince just watching it.

Just another product of Ray Arcel. He really was a teacher.



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JonnyBlaze
post Jul 26 2010, 07:43 PM
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QUOTE (HaydelHammer @ Jul 26 2010, 12:41 PM) *
punchers have fallen hard over the past few years when paired against pure boxers.

Punchers are entertaining yes, and if brought up right can cash out pretty quickly but as soon as they go up against "the boxer" it usually they will get labeled as "exposed" after the humbling beating they took at the hands of the crafty slick boxer. Then it's usually down hill imo for the puncher unless they freak show him again for $$$ b/c he damn sure aint beating the guy that mauled him.

Hamed fell hard man.

pop quiz....who (puncher) feel harder than Hamed after his beating?

Who said punchers can't be pure boxers??Joe Louis and Ray Robinson were both pure boxers and 2 of the hardest punchers in history..They would use their jab or feints to setup the KO punch..So many people today think that a boxer is a guy who moves and doesn't possess a punch,lets say someone like Malignaggi..Does anyone else feel this way too??The definition of a boxer,a puncher,and so on are so much different now..

Do you mean punchers as in guys who just look for that one punch since they felt they don't have to rely on boxing skills to get the job done??

Haydel---this is not directed at you but it is something I've been thinking about for awhile..The last question is for you however..
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JonnyBlaze
post Jul 26 2010, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (PR316 @ Jul 26 2010, 07:33 PM) *
^^^I think Bernard Hopkins is the closest that comes to perfecting everything. I want to say that either Freddy Roach or Naazim Richardson said that.

Maybe he's not what we could call a KO puncher, but his punches are sharp, crisp, and have alot of bodyweight behind them. As he got older of course he became more safety first. But in his younger days, he could do it all.

But most of the guys seem to go on their athletic ability and pick up what they can because of it. Case in point with guys like Yuriorkis Gamboa. Fast, powerful, athletic, and flashy. But not too much in terms of true skill IMO. If he faces either a Lopez, Caballero, or Chris John, I think his flaws will be exposed. But thats another issue for another time.

One of the most difficult things to learn is putting the feet in harmony with whatever punch your going to throw. It takes time to find it. You gotta just work on it till its an exhaustion really. Its as mentally draining as it is physical.

I loved watching Roberto Duran. He didn't necessarily dance around, but he was like a cat in the way he was able to move inside, and step to either the left or the right and deliver brutal bodyshots. And the fluidity in which he could punch to either the head and body, back up to the head and back down to the body and you can just tell by watching the film that EVERY PUNCH hurts the opponent. It makes me wince just watching it.

Just another product of Ray Arcel. He really was a teacher.

Very good post..I definitely agree with your opinion on Gamboa..I think Lopez or Chris John are the perfect guys to expose him..More John than Lopez in my opinion..

Having your feet flow with your punch is so hard to do..I've yet to master it..It's all about timing and focus to get it..Most people want to bring their body before their foot which makes the punch a arm punch(I've had a bad habit of this)..When it all comes as one,it's a full body punch..Very very hard to do..Also I like how you brought up that it is as mentally draining as physically..It is something we talk about as a team in the gym..Guys today lack mental energy and just do instead of think..I think its a lot worse to be mentally drained than physically..We've seen James Toney last a 12 round fight while completely outta gas only because he has that mental energy to allow him to keep going and reacting..

Duran had great footwork because of Arcel..He would slide on the ball of his foot which is what made it seem like he was outside than on the inside in a split second..If he stepped,his opponent would be able to adjust since he'd see it coming(kinda like when a guy picks up his elbow or moves his shoulder before he jabs)..

Another lost art is the shoeshine..Guys today think you just move your arms as fast as you can and purely arm punch..Watch Ray Robinson shoeshine and you'll see mustard on every punch..Every punch in Robinson's shoeshine would hurt because he didn't do the wimpy shit we sometimes see today..I was taught the bitch way to shoeshine and I've been shown how to really shoeshine(I haven't been able to make it apart of my arsenal yet)..Ray would shoeshine a lot more than I had thought when I first started boxing..It's crazy the details I can see in fights now..
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KYLE THEEE SPINK...
post Jul 27 2010, 02:01 AM
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IMO it's extremely hard to throw that perfect shot with the correct technique when you're in there with another fighter trying to take your head off. A fighter can practice all they want on a bag or in the mirror, but it's a whole different story once in that ring. Last week I sparred with a guy who was throwing nice straight shots on the bag, but couldn't do it in the ring. He cocked the right hand badly every time, and after the first 30 seconds of the first round I slipped every one. I think it would take a lot of sparring and amateur matches to get relaxed enough in that ring to properly sit down on those shots. The amateur scoring system doesn't help either. There's such an emphasis on landing any shot, that technique kind of goes out the window.

The gloves shouldn't matter that much either. I've had 10 oz. gloves on, and they aren't exactley pillows. They're pretty small gloves in the amateurs, and there's even less padding with the pros. As people have already said, there's not too much of a difference between 8 and 10 oz. gloves. It's mainly about that technique.
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Lil-lightsout
post Jul 28 2010, 05:57 AM
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All these posters with all these boxing "skills" and yet not one video ever posted that I can remember?

As far as 1 punch KO artists... it would be nice to see another Jackson or Hearns come along real soon.
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Guest_Fitz_*
post Jul 28 2010, 06:54 AM
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I think punching technique lacks with a lot of fighters, I just feel too much is being drawn into that. Boxing is sport where people punch for a living, I just don't believe that over the years, someone has forgotten how to punch correctly and it was lost in all of those years.
Bad technique is a cause for some fighters, I just don't think it's the main problem that it has been made out to be. Fighters punch in their sport, and it's the only offence they have. Nothing else, I just don't believe that the way you punch has been lost that dramatically.
Also going off a bit, but sometimes stories I hear about things that happened before video was available just seem stretched sometimes. You know stories when you were young, grandparents always told you that they had to walk so far, on blistering hot days, all they had was $5 to them and they did this and that and blah blah blah. You don't dismiss the story, you just think it was exaggerated. Does anybody ever feel this way when reading some things?
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