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AussieLad
post Aug 10 2010, 02:04 AM
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QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 10 2010, 01:04 AM) *
Hey War i got a question you said that the UFC was biased with Silva being that he's a UFC fighter and all right? And that in your opinon Penn,GSP and Couture are all agreater than Silva p4p right? Well than why are they not proclaiming Penn, GSP or Couture as GOAT there UFC fighters aswell too right?



Depends on who's headlining the event. I've heard them call GSP the best in the world on a couple of occassions, then when Anderson headlines suddenly he is the best.

Its just marketing BS

Listen to that tool Joe Rogan. Just about everytime Silva is fighting someone, Rogan says "if you were going to create a guy to beat Silva it would be this guy". Did it with henderson, did it with sonnen, did it with thales leites
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kidbazooka1
post Aug 10 2010, 10:12 AM
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QUOTE (AussieLad @ Aug 10 2010, 03:04 AM) *
Depends on who's headlining the event. I've heard them call GSP the best in the world on a couple of occassions, then when Anderson headlines suddenly he is the best.

Its just marketing BS

Listen to that tool Joe Rogan. Just about everytime Silva is fighting someone, Rogan says "if you were going to create a guy to beat Silva it would be this guy". Did it with henderson, did it with sonnen, did it with thales leites


Read the post again i said "Greatest of all time time" not current best.

I can't recall them ever saying GSP, Penn or Couture IS the GOAT.
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Run and Gun Game...
post Aug 10 2010, 12:25 PM
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Bazooka I am trying very hard to understand your stance, i really am. I am not new to the sport or a kid. I have been watching mma since UFC #2. And I have followed the sport very closely since.

I want to know what criteria you are using to call Silva the GOAT.

It cant be accomplishments, because other fighters have accomplished more,

So it has to be based on your opinion of his fighting style.

I agree he is one of the best strikers I have ever seen. Brutal Elbows and knees, and very good speed. His ground game to me though, is average at best.

So explain why is he better than anyone who have ever fought mma? As posted before the accomplishments dont stack up yet.

Also quit that thing you do with bowing off questions just so you dont have to answer them.

ED SORROS and DANA WHITE are running from a rematch, why if he is this GOAT you claim him to be? Dude you cant say it will eventually happen, you dont know that. They have been looking for someone around silva weight to push him, well we got it. The rematch would be a a challenge for your great idol. Why run from the best fight out there for him to fight? Give an honest opinion and reasoning why. Quit blowing off questions
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kidbazooka1
post Aug 10 2010, 12:52 PM
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QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 10 2010, 12:25 PM) *
Bazooka I am trying very hard to understand your stance, i really am. I am not new to the sport or a kid. I have been watching mma since UFC #2. And I have followed the sport very closely since.

I want to know what criteria you are using to call Silva the GOAT.

It cant be accomplishments, because other fighters have accomplished more,

So it has to be based on your opinion of his fighting style.

I agree he is one of the best strikers I have ever seen. Brutal Elbows and knees, and very good speed. His ground game to me though, is average at best.

So explain why is he better than anyone who have ever fought mma? As posted before the accomplishments dont stack up yet.

Also quit that thing you do with bowing off questions just so you dont have to answer them.

ED SORROS and DANA WHITE are running from a rematch, why if he is this GOAT you claim him to be? Dude you cant say it will eventually happen, you dont know that. They have been looking for someone around silva weight to push him, well we got it. The rematch would be a a challenge for your great idol. Why run from the best fight out there for him to fight? Give an honest opinion and reasoning why. Quit blowing off questions


Who kows but like i said i truely believe that the fight will happen sh*t maybe Dana and Ed are afraid that Silva might lose but i guarantee you Silva will fight him a 2nd time and just like Ed said in another interview that if thats the fight the UFC wants than they will do it(i will try and find it for you).

Now can you please answer my question.

Since you have said that GSP, Penn and Couture are all greater fighers than Silva then why don't they proclaime one of them as the GOAT since they too are UFC fighters? and you pretty muc said UFC was bias towrds Silva thats why they called him the GOAT so please asnwer me that my friend.
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Run and Gun Game...
post Aug 10 2010, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 10 2010, 04:52 PM) *
Since you have said that GSP, Penn and Couture are all greater fighers than Silva then why don't they proclaime one of them as the GOAT since they too are UFC fighters? and you pretty muc said UFC was bias towrds Silva thats why they called him the GOAT so please asnwer me that my friend.


GSP, Penn and Couture have all accomplished more. That is why I call them greater all time. Lets go down the list though shall we?

GSP, dominating wins over Matt Hughes, and penn plus his well rounded game make me put him at #1 p4p right now, and higher than Silva based mainly on his level of competition. Hughes was considered #1 p4p when he beat him, as was bj Penn when he beat him during the first fight.

BJ Penn, You mentioned his loss early in his career to jens pulver. Pulver was already seasoned at that point, and Bj was still new to the mma game., but look at the rematch. Look at how artistic the submission was, trapping the arm with his leg as he applied the read naked choke. Look how he dominated and beat matt highes in their first fight, and hughes is really a 205 pder, and what most have called the strongest fighter in the ufc By out grappled the grappler. A man much much bigger than him. Who in fact was a champion at the time. To me BJ's ground game is vastly superior to silvas, and his stand up is not far off. P4P a better fighter.


Now for couture, his accomplishments are already listed. He has accomplished more than any other mma fighter in history. his stand up is average, but ground game is superior. Second on the ground only to BJ Penn. his accomplishments and fighting and beating men so much bigger than him, many times making it look so easy is why i rank him so highly, and in fact above silva.

you cant rate a fighter on potiental in my opinion, they have to earn it. Silva has the oppertunity to do that, he just hasnt earned it yet in my opinion.


Why does the UFC promote Silva and not these others as the best of all time? I have personally heard Rogan call both Penn and Couture perhaps the best fighter MMA has ever seen during telecasts. I believe dana white hypes this, stealing a page out of mayweathers book. Proclaiming him the best ever, and getting emotions involved as people buy ppv's praying to see him lose. That being said, Dana lets the machine work for him, far as I know he has never personally called silva the best ever.


QUOTE
I want to know what criteria you are using to call Silva the GOAT.

It cant be accomplishments, because other fighters have accomplished more,

So it has to be based on your opinion of his fighting style.

I agree he is one of the best strikers I have ever seen. Brutal Elbows and knees, and very good speed. His ground game to me though, is average at best.

So explain why is he better than anyone who have ever fought mma? As posted before the accomplishments dont stack up yet.


Still waiting for you to answer this

This post has been edited by Run and Gun Game Calls: Aug 10 2010, 04:12 PM
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kidbazooka1
post Aug 10 2010, 07:30 PM
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QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 10 2010, 05:12 PM) *
GSP, Penn and Couture have all accomplished more. That is why I call them greater all time. Lets go down the list though shall we?

GSP, dominating wins over Matt Hughes, and penn plus his well rounded game make me put him at #1 p4p right now, and higher than Silva based mainly on his level of competition. Hughes was considered #1 p4p when he beat him, as was bj Penn when he beat him during the first fight.

BJ Penn, You mentioned his loss early in his career to jens pulver. Pulver was already seasoned at that point, and Bj was still new to the mma game., but look at the rematch. Look at how artistic the submission was, trapping the arm with his leg as he applied the read naked choke. Look how he dominated and beat matt highes in their first fight, and hughes is really a 205 pder, and what most have called the strongest fighter in the ufc By out grappled the grappler. A man much much bigger than him. Who in fact was a champion at the time. To me BJ's ground game is vastly superior to silvas, and his stand up is not far off. P4P a better fighter.


Now for couture, his accomplishments are already listed. He has accomplished more than any other mma fighter in history. his stand up is average, but ground game is superior. Second on the ground only to BJ Penn. his accomplishments and fighting and beating men so much bigger than him, many times making it look so easy is why i rank him so highly, and in fact above silva.

you cant rate a fighter on potiental in my opinion, they have to earn it. Silva has the oppertunity to do that, he just hasnt earned it yet in my opinion.


Why does the UFC promote Silva and not these others as the best of all time? I have personally heard Rogan call both Penn and Couture perhaps the best fighter MMA has ever seen during telecasts. I believe dana white hypes this, stealing a page out of mayweathers book. Proclaiming him the best ever, and getting emotions involved as people buy ppv's praying to see him lose. That being said, Dana lets the machine work for him, far as I know he has never personally called silva the best ever.




Still waiting for you to answer this


I'll go down that list with you my man.

GSP-great fighter no doubt but you forgot to mentioned two little weakness of his the stand up and chin he got KTFO and embarrased by Mat Serra of all people thats why he's been gun shy ever since and like some do with Anderson has been criticised for his perfromances latley for not being able to finish and just keep an oppopent down.

Penn- has been one of the most inconsistent great fighers in MMA that has hurt him big time no need to go too much into that because anyone can tell you os.

Couture-has had some good win but he's also had some very big losses and most by stoppage or submission. No way i would ever rank him ahead of Anderson.

Now as for why i rank Anderson as the best p4p ever. Well let me start with his accomplsihments that you seem to not be impressed with at all.

He's beaten...

Hayato Sakurai back when Sakurai was bad man

Carlos Newton-anothetop fighter of the time Silva stopped him with w HL reel knee beautiful stuff.

Leben-now im not saying Leben is a bad ass by any means even though he has been on a nice winning streak latley but what was so impressive was in the way Silva beat him to this day no one has been able to knock Leben out the guy has a iron chin yet Silva flatten him with strikes within a minute.

Franklin-Franklin was considered the top MW by most at the time and was thought to be too well rounded for Silva. Again Silva made Franklin look like a bum stopping him brutaly within 1 rd.

Henderson-Hendo had just come off a very close loss to Rampage and was also thought to be to strong for Silva yet Anderson schooled him on the feet and subbed him in the 2nd. Now how the f*ck can you not be impressed with that after Hendo has just faught a war with Rampage?

Lutter- No biggie there but need to mention it because many though Lutters so called superior BJJ was too much for Silva.

Marquadt-another top MW at the time who was like 7 times pancrase champ and was again thought to be the solution to Silva. Outcome Silva by easy beating in 1 rd.

Griffin-held the LHW belt beat Rampage and Shogun yet looked like a f*cking amatuer compared to Silva nuff said there.

See bro we can go back and forth nit picking on the fighters they have beaten and lost to.

I know Silva has had some not so exciting perfromances latley but the difference between him and the rest is that he keeps on winning and usually does it in impressive fashion.

Now because of the way he's won alot of his fights and his style which is IMO more complete than GSP, and Couture because unlike GSP and Couture they have never beaten a top striker at striking yes they may take em down and might win there but Anderson has beaten fighters in positions where many thought he wouldn't have a chance.

So what Anderosn was taken dow nand loseing to Sonnen he still subbed him in a position that was supose to better better suited for Sonnen.

Anderson can beat other good strikers on there feet and sub top BJJ guys and olympic level wrestlers.

Also his consistency has been remarkable 12 straight wins in the UFC, records set for title defenses in the UFC, I personaly don't know how anyone could hate on the guy but hey to each his own.

For those reason is why i rank Anderson as the #1 p4p fighter today and of all times but don't worry bro he's 35 and for a guy who relies on his speed and relflexes his reign may come to an end soon but for now you should try and enjoy him for he will go down as the best ever and in time like most boxers will become more appreciated.

I really didn't wanna reply to you anymore cause i just can't take you seriuosley but i did cause you asked me a question and i didn't wanna make it seemed like i was dodgeing it but please lets try to end this sooner than later.

It's ok that you don't agree with me thats fine you got your opinion i got mine. I just didn't like how you came at me like i was 100% wrong for not agreeing with and for haveing Silva as the GOAT yet alot of other people have him aswell.

How about we'll just agree to disgaree sounds good?

This post has been edited by kidbazooka1: Aug 10 2010, 07:38 PM
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Warlord
post Aug 10 2010, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Aug 10 2010, 04:12 PM) *
you cant rate a fighter on potiental.

I think that sums it up perfectly, actually.

Bazooka, you can't honestly sit here and argue that Anderson Silva's body of work qualifies him as the best ever, can you?

As stated before, going just off comp lists, Fedor, Wanderlei Silva, and Mauricio "Shogun" Rua all excel Anderson at this point. Even Kazushi Sakuraba excels Silva at this point. By A LOT. Sakuraba holds wins over 6 former UFC champions.

Kazushi Sakuraba

Win Ikuhisa Minowa Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Ken Shamrock TKO (Punch)
Win Kevin Randleman Submission (Armbar)
Win Quinton Jackson Submission (Rear Naked Choke)
Win Ryan Gracie Decision (Unanimous)
Win Renzo Gracie Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Royce Gracie TKO (Corner Stoppage)
Win Guy Mezger TKO (Retirement)
Win Royler Gracie Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Ebenezer Fontes Braga Submission (Armbar)
Win Vitor Belfort Decision (Unanimous)
Win Carlos Newton Submission (Kneebar)
Win Vernon White Submission (Armbar)


Let's take it a little further. Let's break down the way each fighter has won.

Anderson Silva - 27 wins

Wins 15 (T)KOs ( 55.56 %)
5 Submissions ( 18.52 %)
7 Decisions ( 25.93 %)

Anderson Silva finished his opponents within the time-limit approximately 74% percent of the time. (74.08% to be exact.) Pretty good, yeah? (Though finishing only about half of your opponents by KO/TKO when striking is supposedly your specialty is a little surprising.) Well, try comparing that to Kazushi Sakuraba.


Kazushi Sakuraba - 26 wins

Wins 4 (T)KOs ( 15.38 %)
19 Submissions ( 73.08 %)
3 Decisions ( 11.54 %)

Sakuraba also finishes nearly 74% of his opponents within the time-limit... by submission alone! Add in TKO/KO finishes, and Kazushi Sakuraba finishes his oppnents 88.46% of the time... nearly 90 fucking %!


So yeah. Let's all lay off the Silva nutsack for a little while. The man clearly has a long way to go before we start trying to proclaim him as the GOAT. Regardless of whatever the fuck Dana White and the UFC hype-machine would have you believe.


P.S. Sakuraba would've toyed with, and then subbed Anderson Silva by arm-bar if they'd ever met in their respective primes.

(IMG:http://www.mmahq.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/sakuraba-royce.jpg)
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kidbazooka1
post Aug 10 2010, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 10 2010, 07:58 PM) *
I think that sums it up perfectly, actually.

Bazooka, you can't honestly sit here and argue that Anderson Silva's body of work qualifies him as the best ever, can you?

As stated before, going just off comp lists, Fedor, Wanderlei Silva, and Mauricio "Shogun" Rua all excel Anderson at this point. Even Kazushi Sakuraba excels Silva at this point. By A LOT. Sakuraba holds wins over 6 former UFC champions.

Kazushi Sakuraba

Win Ikuhisa Minowa Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Ken Shamrock TKO (Punch)
Win Kevin Randleman Submission (Armbar)
Win Quinton Jackson Submission (Rear Naked Choke)
Win Ryan Gracie Decision (Unanimous)
Win Renzo Gracie Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Royce Gracie TKO (Corner Stoppage)
Win Guy Mezger TKO (Retirement)
Win Royler Gracie Technical Submission (Kimura)
Win Ebenezer Fontes Braga Submission (Armbar)
Win Vitor Belfort Decision (Unanimous)
Win Carlos Newton Submission (Kneebar)
Win Vernon White Submission (Armbar)


Let's take it a little further. Let's break down the way each fighter has won.

Anderson Silva - 27 wins

Wins 15 (T)KOs ( 55.56 %)
5 Submissions ( 18.52 %)
7 Decisions ( 25.93 %)

Anderson Silva finished his opponents within the time-limit approximately 74% percent of the time. (74.08% to be exact.) Pretty good, yeah? (Though finishing only about half of your opponents by KO/TKO when striking is supposedly your specialty is a little surprising.) Well, try comparing that to Kazushi Sakuraba.


Kazushi Sakuraba - 26 wins

Wins 4 (T)KOs ( 15.38 %)
19 Submissions ( 73.08 %)
3 Decisions ( 11.54 %)

Sakuraba also finishes nearly 74% of his opponents within the time-limit... by submission alone! Add in TKO/KO finishes, and Kazushi Sakuraba finishes his oppnents 88.46% of the time... nearly 90 fucking %!


So yeah. Let's all lay off the Silva nutsack for a little while. The man clearly has a long way to go before we start trying to proclaim him as the GOAT. Regardless of whatever the fuck Dana White and the UFC hype-machine would have you believe.


P.S. Sakuraba would've toyed with, and then subbed Anderson Silva by arm-bar if they'd ever met in their respective primes.

(IMG:http://www.mmahq.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/sakuraba-royce.jpg)


Read my above post.

It's not just because of his resume he has a good one but it's not just that.
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Warlord
post Aug 10 2010, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (kidbazooka1 @ Aug 10 2010, 09:01 PM) *
Read my above post.

It's not just because of his resume he has a good one but it's not just that.

I did read it. You went on Ad nauseam about how beating Travis Lutter and Nate Marquardt makes Silva the GOAT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Seriously though. Anderson doesn't even have a better record than Sakuraba. Sakuraba was submitting Gracies like it was going out of style, something NO ONE had ever done before. Sakuraba gave his back up in DISDAIN to those fighters as well. And none of them could submit him. Unlike Silva, who periodically gets himself caught in embarrassing situations with SUB-PAR competition.

Sakuraba beat Belfort in stand-up before dominating him on the ground, hell, he's beat professional boxers (Rubin Williams) in stand-up before taking them down. AND he's done it all far, far above his natural fighting weight. Something Anderson Silva would know nothing about. He (Silva) walks around well above 205lbs in his daily life (about 230, from what I hear), but still can't seem to motivate himself to make a real go at Light Heavyweight.

Sakuraba has never walked into the ring weighing more than 192lbs. And often, he weighed less. But he's been fighting Light Heavyweights and Heavyweights his ENTIRE CAREER. Fuck, the man fought Mirko Cro-Cop for Christ's sake! He even fought Igor Vovchanchyn (whose striking excels Anderson Silva's) AFTER fighting Royce Gracie for 90 minutes... on the same fucking night!!!

Now I'm getting myself worked up, lol.

Anderson Silva isn't even worthy to bow before Sakuraba's throne and worship. He's doing just fine bowing down at Chael Sonnen's feet.
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kidbazooka1
post Aug 10 2010, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE (Warlord @ Aug 10 2010, 09:20 PM) *
I did read it. You went on Ad nauseam about how beating Travis Lutter and Nate Marquardt makes Silva the GOAT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Seriously though. Anderson doesn't even have a better record than Sakuraba. Sakuraba was submitting Gracies like it was going out of style, something NO ONE had ever done before. Sakuraba gave his back up in DISDAIN to those fighters as well. And none of them could submit him. Unlike Silva, who periodically gets himself caught in embarrassing situations with SUB-PAR competition.

Sakuraba beat Belfort in stand-up before dominating him on the ground, hell, he's beat professional boxers (Rubin Williams) in stand-up before taking them down. AND he's done it all far, far above his natural fighting weight. Something Anderson Silva would know nothing about. He (Silva) walks around well above 205lbs in his daily life (about 230, from what I hear), but still can't seem to motivate himself to make a real go at Light Heavyweight.

Sakuraba has never walked into the ring weighing more than 192lbs. And often, he weighed less. But he's been fighting Light Heavyweights and Heavyweights his ENTIRE CAREER. Fuck, the man fought Mirko Cro-Cop for Christ's sake! He even fought Igor Vovchanchyn (whose striking excels Anderson Silva's) AFTER fighting Royce Gracie for 90 minutes... on the same fucking night!!!

Now I'm getting myself worked up, lol.

Anderson Silva isn't even worthy to bow before Sakuraba's throne and worship. He's doing just fine bowing down at Chael Sonnen's feet.


LOL

I can counter that easly but i won't even waste my time. Im done here.

This post has been edited by kidbazooka1: Aug 10 2010, 08:24 PM
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