Replies

[Jack 1000]

For all comments on the heavyweight title rematch between Wlad Klitschko and Sam Peter. ESPN 3 is streaming the fight. Check individual systems for availability. If you don't want to know what happens or you can't get ESPN 3, check your program guides for next day coverage, it will be on ESPN TV tomorrow afternoon. Keep all on-going and post-fight comment spoilers in this thread.

Jack

Administrator

[SENTRAL]

Wladimir methodically broke down another inferior opponent. It wasnt good viewing but he was clinical and once again underlines how poor the division is. Every single heavyweight champion in history has faced inferior level opponents at some point during their reign but Wladimir and his big brother Vitali are unlucky enough to dominate in an era worse than any other in memory. I say this is unlucky because however you or I feel about them, we can never give them a fair ride because the division is stacked with bums. And thats not their fault.

[The Ollie Reed F...]

Wladimir methodically broke down another inferior opponent. It wasnt good viewing but he was clinical and once again underlines how poor the division is. Every single heavyweight champion in history has faced inferior level opponents at some point during their reign but Wladimir and his big brother Vitali are unlucky enough to dominate in an era worse than any other in memory. I say this is unlucky because however you or I feel about them, we can never give them a fair ride because the division is stacked with bums. And thats not their fault.

I'm prepared to meet you half way on that one. I think your statement as regards to Vitali is a fair one but Wladimir.................I'm sorry but to own losses to Sanders, Brewster and particularly Ross 'The Boss' Puritty on your way up is unacceptable. Sure I've seen greats lose to journeymen at the tail end of their careers when they're just fighting for money but not many real good ones lose to that kind of caliber at the start of their careers.

Wladimr has improved immeasureably since then but I'm afraid those sorts of losses put a big ole question mark over him for mine.

I would like to have seen how the brothers fared in the mid to late 90's, Bowe, Ibeabuchi, Tua, Holyfield, Tyson, Lewis, Ruddock, those kind of guys. Like you say we can never know for sure, but methinks they would've got eaten up and spat out.

[SENTRAL]

I'm prepared to meet you half way on that one. I think your statement as regards to Vitali is a fair one but Wladimir.................I'm sorry but to own losses to Sanders, Brewster and particularly Ross 'The Boss' Puritty on your way up is unacceptable. Sure I've seen greats lose to journeymen at the tail end of their careers when they're just fighting for money but not many real good ones lose to that kind of caliber at the start of their careers.

Wladimr has improved immeasureably since then but I'm afraid those sorts of losses put a big ole question mark over him for mine.

I would like to have seen how the brothers fared in the mid to late 90's, Bowe, Ibeabuchi, Tua, Holyfield, Tyson, Lewis, Ruddock, those kind of guys. Like you say we can never know for sure, but methinks they would've got eaten up and spat out.

Well I do agree. Those losses do blot his copy book, though as you say, he has improved since then. I find it imposible to judge him over the broader picture. When we rate a fighter we do it how they were at their best. Is he at his best now? He would be easier to judge if we could see him in with better class opponents but we all know there arent any on the horizon. He could beat Holmes' record at this rate, perhaps not Louis'. Tua would suffer the same fate he did against Lewis. A squat fighter with the ability to get inside, a Joe Frazier, would present real problems for him. Some are holding out for David Haye but I see a simple jab and right hand being more than enough to topple his challenge. I maybe sounding like I'm overrating Wladimir but I really am stuck between a rock and a hard place where he is concerned and the answers I need are nowhere in sight.

[The Ollie Reed F...]

Well I do agree. Those losses do blot his copy book, though as you say, he has improved since then. I find it imposible to judge him over the broader picture. When we rate a fighter we do it how they were at their best. Is he at his best now? He would be easier to judge if we could see him in with better class opponents but we all know there arent any on the horizon. He could beat Holmes' record at this rate, perhaps not Louis'. Tua would suffer the same fate he did against Lewis. A squat fighter with the ability to get inside, a Joe Frazier, would present real problems for him. Some are holding out for David Haye but I see a simple jab and right hand being more than enough to topple his challenge. I maybe sounding like I'm overrating Wladimir but I really am stuck between a rock and a hard place where he is concerned and the answers I need are nowhere in sight.

It is tough to assess. What parameters do you lay out? Do we take fighter A at his peak against fighter B at his peak? Or do we try and look at the career as a whole? See you like to take guys at their peak whereas I prefer to look at the career as a whole hence those early losses count against him. But here is where I contradict myself, I'm prepared to overlook the losses a fighter gets right at the very end when they're fighting on fumes, Tyson, Louis, Ali etc etc.

So in a sense I break my own rules.

However in my mind a career is just that, a career, starting from the first fight through to the last. How were you on the way up? What tough fights did you get through when you were young and inexperienced? In some ways it's those years that tell you most about a fighter. and then how dominant were you when you were at your very best?

This is definately Wlad at his very best yet I remain unconvinced, to the point where I still see a Tua around the time of Ibeabuchi giving him some moments. In fact I see Ibeabuchi as giving him real problems. Both Klits come across as very methodical maybe too merthodical if that makes any sense. I've often wondered how they would react and a life and death struggle. We've already seen Vitali do well against Lewis but at the same time we've seen Wlad wilt under pressure before. I still happen to believe that a half decent HW can do the same again to Wlad.

The problem? There is not even a half decent HW in the division. And I agree it isn't going to be The Gayemaker and his Amazing China Chin.

This post has been edited by The Ollie Reed Fan Club: Sep 12 2010, 04:36 AM