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> ESPN3: Klitschko vs Peter II @ approximately 2PM PT/4CT/5ET, SPOILERS WITHIN Approx.15 Mins to 30 Mins Later
Jack 1000
post Sep 11 2010, 01:23 PM
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For all comments on the heavyweight title rematch between Wlad Klitschko and Sam Peter. ESPN 3 is streaming the fight. Check individual systems for availability. If you don't want to know what happens or you can't get ESPN 3, check your program guides for next day coverage, it will be on ESPN TV tomorrow afternoon. Keep all on-going and post-fight comment spoilers in this thread.

Jack

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SENTRAL
post Sep 12 2010, 03:05 AM
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Wladimir methodically broke down another inferior opponent. It wasnt good viewing but he was clinical and once again underlines how poor the division is. Every single heavyweight champion in history has faced inferior level opponents at some point during their reign but Wladimir and his big brother Vitali are unlucky enough to dominate in an era worse than any other in memory. I say this is unlucky because however you or I feel about them, we can never give them a fair ride because the division is stacked with bums. And thats not their fault.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Sep 12 2010, 03:28 AM
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QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Sep 12 2010, 03:05 AM) *
Wladimir methodically broke down another inferior opponent. It wasnt good viewing but he was clinical and once again underlines how poor the division is. Every single heavyweight champion in history has faced inferior level opponents at some point during their reign but Wladimir and his big brother Vitali are unlucky enough to dominate in an era worse than any other in memory. I say this is unlucky because however you or I feel about them, we can never give them a fair ride because the division is stacked with bums. And thats not their fault.


I'm prepared to meet you half way on that one. I think your statement as regards to Vitali is a fair one but Wladimir.................I'm sorry but to own losses to Sanders, Brewster and particularly Ross 'The Boss' Puritty on your way up is unacceptable. Sure I've seen greats lose to journeymen at the tail end of their careers when they're just fighting for money but not many real good ones lose to that kind of caliber at the start of their careers.

Wladimr has improved immeasureably since then but I'm afraid those sorts of losses put a big ole question mark over him for mine.

I would like to have seen how the brothers fared in the mid to late 90's, Bowe, Ibeabuchi, Tua, Holyfield, Tyson, Lewis, Ruddock, those kind of guys. Like you say we can never know for sure, but methinks they would've got eaten up and spat out.
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SENTRAL
post Sep 12 2010, 04:11 AM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 12 2010, 03:28 AM) *
I'm prepared to meet you half way on that one. I think your statement as regards to Vitali is a fair one but Wladimir.................I'm sorry but to own losses to Sanders, Brewster and particularly Ross 'The Boss' Puritty on your way up is unacceptable. Sure I've seen greats lose to journeymen at the tail end of their careers when they're just fighting for money but not many real good ones lose to that kind of caliber at the start of their careers.

Wladimr has improved immeasureably since then but I'm afraid those sorts of losses put a big ole question mark over him for mine.

I would like to have seen how the brothers fared in the mid to late 90's, Bowe, Ibeabuchi, Tua, Holyfield, Tyson, Lewis, Ruddock, those kind of guys. Like you say we can never know for sure, but methinks they would've got eaten up and spat out.


Well I do agree. Those losses do blot his copy book, though as you say, he has improved since then. I find it imposible to judge him over the broader picture. When we rate a fighter we do it how they were at their best. Is he at his best now? He would be easier to judge if we could see him in with better class opponents but we all know there arent any on the horizon. He could beat Holmes' record at this rate, perhaps not Louis'. Tua would suffer the same fate he did against Lewis. A squat fighter with the ability to get inside, a Joe Frazier, would present real problems for him. Some are holding out for David Haye but I see a simple jab and right hand being more than enough to topple his challenge. I maybe sounding like I'm overrating Wladimir but I really am stuck between a rock and a hard place where he is concerned and the answers I need are nowhere in sight.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Sep 12 2010, 04:35 AM
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QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Sep 12 2010, 05:11 AM) *
Well I do agree. Those losses do blot his copy book, though as you say, he has improved since then. I find it imposible to judge him over the broader picture. When we rate a fighter we do it how they were at their best. Is he at his best now? He would be easier to judge if we could see him in with better class opponents but we all know there arent any on the horizon. He could beat Holmes' record at this rate, perhaps not Louis'. Tua would suffer the same fate he did against Lewis. A squat fighter with the ability to get inside, a Joe Frazier, would present real problems for him. Some are holding out for David Haye but I see a simple jab and right hand being more than enough to topple his challenge. I maybe sounding like I'm overrating Wladimir but I really am stuck between a rock and a hard place where he is concerned and the answers I need are nowhere in sight.


It is tough to assess. What parameters do you lay out? Do we take fighter A at his peak against fighter B at his peak? Or do we try and look at the career as a whole? See you like to take guys at their peak whereas I prefer to look at the career as a whole hence those early losses count against him. But here is where I contradict myself, I'm prepared to overlook the losses a fighter gets right at the very end when they're fighting on fumes, Tyson, Louis, Ali etc etc.

So in a sense I break my own rules.

However in my mind a career is just that, a career, starting from the first fight through to the last. How were you on the way up? What tough fights did you get through when you were young and inexperienced? In some ways it's those years that tell you most about a fighter. and then how dominant were you when you were at your very best?

This is definately Wlad at his very best yet I remain unconvinced, to the point where I still see a Tua around the time of Ibeabuchi giving him some moments. In fact I see Ibeabuchi as giving him real problems. Both Klits come across as very methodical maybe too merthodical if that makes any sense. I've often wondered how they would react and a life and death struggle. We've already seen Vitali do well against Lewis but at the same time we've seen Wlad wilt under pressure before. I still happen to believe that a half decent HW can do the same again to Wlad.

The problem? There is not even a half decent HW in the division. And I agree it isn't going to be The Gayemaker and his Amazing China Chin.

This post has been edited by The Ollie Reed Fan Club: Sep 12 2010, 04:36 AM
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Posts in this topic
- Jack 1000   ESPN3: Klitschko vs Peter II @ approximately 2PM PT/4CT/5ET   Sep 11 2010, 01:23 PM
- - Icebeast   Buffer said his magic words, finally... hope this ...   Sep 11 2010, 04:10 PM
- - The CEO   Here's a quick link to the ESPN3 Stream... ht...   Sep 11 2010, 04:13 PM
- - Icebeast   Wlad is throwing bombs early, I'm surprised   Sep 11 2010, 04:17 PM
- - The CEO   Peter using a bob and load up style with both hook...   Sep 11 2010, 04:18 PM
- - Icebeast   amateur vs professional   Sep 11 2010, 04:21 PM
- - The CEO   lol...Wlad's 1-2 is a nightmare for Peter. Ba...   Sep 11 2010, 04:23 PM
- - The CEO   Peter is beginning to accept the ass whoopin'....   Sep 11 2010, 04:29 PM
- - Icebeast   seems like Peter doesn't really know what to d...   Sep 11 2010, 04:30 PM
- - HaydelHammer   what a spectacular fight we have here....espn clas...   Sep 11 2010, 04:33 PM
- - Maxy   Peter just ain't got a clue. What's a p...   Sep 11 2010, 04:37 PM
- - The CEO   You have to throw caution to the wind to beat this...   Sep 11 2010, 04:38 PM
- - Icebeast   one sided as expected... nice uppercut at the end....   Sep 11 2010, 04:39 PM
- - Box in Hand   Peters looks like garbage. This is exactly how I ...   Sep 11 2010, 04:40 PM
- - JLUVBABY   this fight is pathetic... lol...   Sep 11 2010, 04:40 PM
- - 1zz   Teddy is right,if someone one step back quickly wh...   Sep 11 2010, 04:40 PM
- - The CEO   Wladdy has developed a mean right uppercut... So ...   Sep 11 2010, 04:47 PM
- - Icebeast   boooooooooooooooooooooooooooring   Sep 11 2010, 04:48 PM
- - Icebeast   come on Wlad.. Peter is done, just smoke him... j...   Sep 11 2010, 04:53 PM
- - Icebeast   yiiiiihaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa   Sep 11 2010, 04:55 PM
- - JLUVBABY   thank you for saving the agony of a few more round...   Sep 11 2010, 04:55 PM
|- - The CEO   QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Sep 11 2010, 05:55 PM) ...   Sep 11 2010, 05:01 PM
- - 1zz   WK Stops him with vicous hooks and a quick uppercu...   Sep 11 2010, 04:56 PM
- - The CEO   lol...Steward tellin' Wlad he knows it's a...   Sep 11 2010, 04:56 PM
- - Snoop   I'm interested in seeing this uppercut that ev...   Sep 11 2010, 05:03 PM
- - The CEO   and there's Hayden Panetierre.....he's gon...   Sep 11 2010, 05:03 PM
- - Lil-lightsout   Wlad is the BIGGEST PUSSY heavyweight I have ever ...   Sep 11 2010, 05:05 PM
- - ThePrevailingWindz   That was a pathetic effort by Peter.   Sep 11 2010, 05:05 PM
- - Maxy   Yeah I don't blame Wlad tonight....I mean, may...   Sep 11 2010, 05:05 PM
- - Lil-lightsout   Sorry...I so much more enjoyed watching heavyweigh...   Sep 11 2010, 05:07 PM
- - Jack 1000   The Klits may be boring to many, but they keep win...   Sep 11 2010, 05:10 PM
|- - The CEO   QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Sep 11 2010, 06:10 PM)...   Sep 11 2010, 05:21 PM
- - Icebeast   post fight interview, Vitali said Wlad really want...   Sep 11 2010, 05:18 PM
- - ROLL DEEP   just watched the last round - man, Wlad let his ha...   Sep 11 2010, 06:53 PM
|- - Warlord   QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Sep 11 2010, 06:53 PM)...   Sep 11 2010, 10:05 PM
|- - Lil-lightsout   QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 11 2010, 11:05 PM) A...   Sep 11 2010, 10:20 PM
||- - Run and Gun Game Calls   QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 12 2010, 01...   Sep 14 2010, 05:16 PM
||- - JonnyBlaze   QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Sep 14 2010, ...   Sep 14 2010, 05:44 PM
||- - Lil-lightsout   QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Sep 14 2010, ...   Sep 14 2010, 06:07 PM
||- - JonnyBlaze   QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 14 2010, 06...   Sep 14 2010, 06:28 PM
|||- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Sep 14 2010, 06:28 PM...   Sep 15 2010, 03:32 AM
|||- - JonnyBlaze   QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 15 2010,...   Sep 15 2010, 06:01 PM
||- - STEVENSKI   QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 15 2010, 09...   Sep 14 2010, 06:42 PM
|- - ROLL DEEP   QUOTE (Warlord @ Sep 11 2010, 11:05 PM) A...   Sep 12 2010, 04:31 AM
- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   Peter started the fight trying to fight like Mike ...   Sep 11 2010, 10:10 PM
- - SmartyBeardo   QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 11 2010, 11...   Sep 11 2010, 11:22 PM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 12 2010, 12:22 ...   Sep 11 2010, 11:25 PM
||- - SmartyBeardo   QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 11 2010,...   Sep 11 2010, 11:27 PM
|- - Lil-lightsout   QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 12 2010, 12:22 ...   Sep 11 2010, 11:30 PM
|- - SmartyBeardo   QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 11 2010, 11...   Sep 11 2010, 11:48 PM
|- - Lil-lightsout   QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 12 2010, 12:48 ...   Sep 11 2010, 11:58 PM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 12 2010, 12...   Sep 12 2010, 12:08 AM
||- - Lil-lightsout   QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 12 2010,...   Sep 12 2010, 12:15 AM
|- - SmartyBeardo   QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 11 2010, 11...   Sep 12 2010, 12:11 AM
|- - Lil-lightsout   QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 12 2010, 01:11 ...   Sep 12 2010, 12:25 AM
|- - SmartyBeardo   QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 12 2010, 12...   Sep 12 2010, 04:52 PM
|- - Lil-lightsout   QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Sep 12 2010, 05:52 ...   Sep 13 2010, 05:44 PM
|- - STEVENSKI   QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 14 2010, 08...   Sep 13 2010, 06:21 PM
- - SENTRAL   Wladimir methodically broke down another inferior ...   Sep 12 2010, 03:05 AM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Sep 12 2010, 03:05 AM) W...   Sep 12 2010, 03:28 AM
|- - SENTRAL   QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Sep 12 2010,...   Sep 12 2010, 04:11 AM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (SENTRAL @ Sep 12 2010, 05:11 AM) W...   Sep 12 2010, 04:35 AM
- - Fitz   Wlad was just way too dominant, and I wish he woul...   Sep 12 2010, 03:40 AM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 12 2010, 03:40 AM) Wlad...   Sep 12 2010, 03:47 AM
- - BigG   Wlad looked good..Wlad is the white Lennox Lewis t...   Sep 12 2010, 09:54 PM
- - STEVENSKI   I can understand the dislike for a pair of big ski...   Sep 12 2010, 10:56 PM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 12 2010, 11:56 PM)...   Sep 13 2010, 01:22 AM
- - JonnyBlaze   I was impressed with Wlad..His left hook has gotte...   Sep 13 2010, 02:42 AM
- - Fitz   QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 13 2010, 01:56 PM)...   Sep 13 2010, 04:47 AM
|- - ROLL DEEP   QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 13 2010, 05:47 AM) one ...   Sep 13 2010, 06:03 AM
- - Fitz   Yep my gayest post yet. But with a lot of fighter...   Sep 13 2010, 04:55 AM
|- - King Eugene   QUOTE (Fitz @ Sep 13 2010, 05:55 AM) Yep ...   Sep 14 2010, 12:34 AM
- - Fitz   QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Sep 13 2010, 09:03 PM)...   Sep 13 2010, 06:40 AM
- - ROLL DEEP   I agree that some European countries can be a litt...   Sep 13 2010, 08:06 AM
|- - STEVENSKI   QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Sep 13 2010, 11:06 PM)...   Sep 13 2010, 05:08 PM
|- - ROLL DEEP   QUOTE (STEVENSKI @ Sep 13 2010, 05:08 PM)...   Sep 14 2010, 02:54 AM
|- - STEVENSKI   QUOTE (ROLL DEEP @ Sep 14 2010, 05:54 PM)...   Sep 14 2010, 06:26 PM
- - JonnyBlaze   I've been checking out a lot of P4P lists and ...   Sep 14 2010, 12:13 AM
|- - STEVENSKI   QUOTE (JonnyBlaze @ Sep 14 2010, 03:13 PM...   Sep 14 2010, 01:41 AM
- - Lil-lightsout   I give up. Blaze you are fucking crazy. I under...   Sep 14 2010, 07:15 PM
|- - JonnyBlaze   QUOTE (Lil-lightsout @ Sep 14 2010, 07...   Sep 14 2010, 11:21 PM
- - Run and Gun Game Calls   I saw both fights live actually. And the excitin...   Sep 14 2010, 09:26 PM
|- - Lil-lightsout   QUOTE (Run and Gun Game Calls @ Sep 14 2010, ...   Sep 14 2010, 10:09 PM
- - King Eugene   If it aint broke dont fix it and if its cracked pr...   Sep 16 2010, 12:26 AM
- - ROLL DEEP   QUOTE (King Eugene @ Sep 16 2010, 12:26 A...   Sep 16 2010, 02:13 AM


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