[JLUVBABY]

Beat Jersey Joe well past his prime, Schmeling, Max Baer, and Jim Braddock. Not to mention that he opened the door for black fighters to fight for the HW title and won the proxy war between the US and Nazi Germany in the ring.

The funny thing about the Klits and Louis is they're in a similar situation, Louis just took advantage of that situation. Expectations have changed but generally speaking their situation is practically identical. Louis fought in a relatively weak era and the popularity of the division rested on his shoulders, he brought the division back from the ashes after Dempsey retired. The Klits also fight in a weak era and for the division to reclaim former glory it's all on them. The difference being that Louis scored Tyson like kayos for that time period and beat Sharkey worse than Dempsey did, the Klits didn't clean up the fighters from the previous era and are miles away from being entertaining by today's standards.

The opportunity is available to them and I can tell you right now no one would be talking about the HW division being dead if Wlad and Vitali were doing what they were capable of and getting guys out within two rounds.

jack johnson and joe gans opened the door for black fighters decades before louis... agreed on the them boys doing what they are supposed to be doing....

[gravytrain]

jack johnson and joe gans opened the door for black fighters decades before louis... agreed on the them boys doing what they are supposed to be doing....

Not taking anything from Johnson but he opened and closed that door. Jack Blackburn didn't even want to train Louis because he thought it'd be impossible for a black fighter to challenge for the HW title.

[JLUVBABY]

Chris Byrd, Lennox Lewis, Kirk Johnson, Sam Peter, Carlos Gomez, Larry Donald, Corry Sanders. Not the best comp, I never said he did. His brother has a much stronger resume but much stronger losses too. Mike Tyson and Marciano's resumes are not so much better either. I don;t know who Joe Louis or Jack Johnson fought and Larry Holmes didn't fight many live bodies. The only guys that did at heavyweight were Ali, Foreman, Frazier and Evander

Kirk Johnson (lazy, fat), Sam Peter (exposed vs chambers), Carlos Gomez (come on), Larry Donald (never reached potential after bowe slapped him at the press conference), Corry Sanders (wasnt he retired fight before that one when he came back to sideswipe wladimir?... lol)

[JLUVBABY]

Not taking anything from Johnson but he opened and closed that door. Jack Blackburn didn't even want to train Louis because he thought it'd be impossible for a black fighter to challenge for the HW title.

actually johnson despised louis... there was somewhat of a jelousy factor involved... it had to do with louis being a contender to the crown... louis was gonna get a shot at the title... as long as he kept winning... he had white handlers thatt made sure he never smiled etc... basically made sure he was a good BOY...

This post has been edited by JLUVBABY: Oct 20 2010, 08:44 PM

[pesticid]

Kirk Johnson (lazy, fat), Sam Peter (exposed vs chambers), Carlos Gomez (come on), Larry Donald (never reached potential after bowe slapped him at the press conference), Corry Sanders (wasnt he retired fight before that one when he came back to sideswipe wladimir?... lol)

Great analysis, now what is Tyson's best win?

[STEVENSKI]

Clay used to spar without headgear and boxed on way too long. He also faced some monsters in Norton and Foreman that the brothers will not have to encounter. Ali's condition has little to do with how many guys he knocked out Steve and you know it. I think you may just be baiting our American bretheran (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Some bait was in there but it was mostly about how some fighters get credit for displaying pure boxing skills & others get derided for displaying pure bosing skills not getting busted up & stopping 9/10 opponents. Know what I mean....

i understand the fact that you are a fan of the two brothers, so am i, but they are not the great champions one would like to believe.... both are very beatable...

They certainly are beatable & have flaws to take advantage of but I am not a fan of the brothers. I respect their ability moreso than them.

[Big Slim Sweet]

ok... now tell me who stands out in this list of fighters?... the named fighters he beat are all very well past their primes... i give him a pass with byrd cuzz he was beating the hell out of byrd... but man this list of opponents stinks.... lewis being the only real threat out of the list and he lost that one (and ill give him peter and he's questionable)... that aside i give vitali his props but the guy is not a great heavyweight...

Agreed JLUV. When it's said and done Lennox is the only great fighter either of the brothers have fought and Vitali's face couldn't hold up to the punishment. And that was a fat, lazy, unmotivated half-retired Lennox.

I know Vitali acquitted himself nicely in that fight. I know he was beating the braids off of Byrd too but the fact is he would up losing those fights. And Wlad gassed out to a journeyman and got stomped by two mid-level guys. Yeah he's made the most of his career since then but truly great fighters don't lose those fights. This wasn't a Manny Pacquiao type deal either where the guy got KO'd a couple times when he was a novice on the come up. Wlad was already being touted as heir to the throne and had won some big fights before those.

Kirk Johnson (lazy, fat), Sam Peter (exposed vs chambers), Carlos Gomez (come on), Larry Donald (never reached potential after bowe slapped him at the press conference), Corry Sanders (wasnt he retired fight before that one when he came back to sideswipe wladimir?... lol)

That wasn't a slap Bowe caught Donald with at the press conference.

[King Eugene]

I have to disagree with you, KE. But, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are saying. That is the problem with putting HWs in the P4P mix.

Are you suggesting that Big Sister be considered at his same height and speed transposed to the different weights? I don't think you are because if that were the case the older Klit would stand no chance in any other weight class, with the exception of Cruiser. He would be cut down like an unhealthy tree.

But, even if you meant that he would be the second or third tallest in every division, I can't see him being the #1 guy in most of them. There is just too much worthy top level competition in most of the divisions. He would be out-boxed and punished in most other divisions, the same way he would be if he was somehow dropped into the 70s HW Div mix.

This is not meant as a put down to Big Sis. Marciano, Louis, Tyson and Lewis would have suffered the same fate in that time warp.

IMO, Big Klit would not be more than top 5 in any division 168 down.

That does not matter though. It also does not matter what would have happened to him in the 70s. He is the King of the HW hill in this era. Nobody can take that away from him (not even his brother) anymore than they can take away that fact about Jack Johnson, Louis, Marciano, Ali, or Holmes.

He would KO Wlad like a tuna on a boat deck, BTW.

In order to chop a tree down you'd have to get close enough to it first. I'm pretty confident he'd use his jab as he does now to keep all opponents at bay. Precision timing will beat speed the majority of the time. KT wasn't the fastest but he timing was second to none. Vitali can box. He has more than just a one two. He only uses the 1-2 because thats all he needs to use. If its not broke dont fix it. I dont think much would change at the lower divisions either. He has a nice hook and uppercut as well. He's a smart fighter and would be able to make the necessary adjustments.

[King Eugene]

speed will be the killer of vitali king... he has yet to fight someone with speed with a punch he respects...

He wont respect Haye either. He has a punch but has to get there. Hell Haye was gassed after two rounds against Ruiz. You really think he has a chance against Vitali? Around rounds 6 or 7 the fight will become pretty clear. Haye would eat more Double Jabs followed by the right hand than he had planned on.

Dont get me wrong if they do fight I'd be rooting for Haye like a mutha fucka but Haye will tire chasing Vitali and swinging up all night while avoiding that long ass reach.

[Warlord]

Great analysis, now what is Tyson's best win?

I already asked him. Apparently it is Tubbs and Tucker, who, despite all appearances and evidence to the contrary, were uber bad-asses that would've dominated the Klits had they fought in today's heavyweight division.