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> Klitschko vs Adamek
gravytrain
post Jan 26 2011, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 26 2011, 09:27 PM) *
Spoken like a prophet! Ali would have to overcome similar obstacles to what Adamek would have. Most people will say that Ali's greatest assets were his speed and footwork. However, Ali is still human. Its not like he's gonna disappear and reappear behind his opponent. He still would have to put himself in harms way and likely take fire. Seeing what Adamek does against the Klits could go a long way toward settling the size argument. Adamek is a good, "little" man. He may be one of the best, based on body of work and experience, that either Klit has recently fought.


Considering that reach is exaggerated a lot times Wlad and Ali might have the same arm length/reach, Adamek is listed at a 75" reach. In Ali's prime his weight was about 212 so it'd really just be about a 28 pound weight advantage and 3" height advantage. Ali however was far superior in foot speed, hand speed, and strategy.Post exile Ali defeated someone nearly 30 pounds heavier in Buster Mathis so how much is that weight advantage really going to mean?

I really wonder how the fuck you try to compare Ali to someone like Adamek, Adamek could dream as being as nice as Ali then he better wake up and apologize.
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The Original MrF...
post Jan 26 2011, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 26 2011, 10:02 PM) *
Considering that reach is exaggerated a lot times Wlad and Ali might have the same arm length/reach, Adamek is listed at a 75" reach. In Ali's prime his weight was about 212 so it'd really just be about a 28 pound weight advantage and 3" height advantage. Ali however was far superior in foot speed, hand speed, and strategy.Post exile Ali defeated someone nearly 30 pounds heavier in Buster Mathis so how much is that weight advantage really going to mean?

I really wonder how the fuck you try to compare Ali to someone like Adamek, Adamek could dream as being as nice as Ali then he better wake up and apologize.



Dude, relax... We were just comparing size. I think I mentioned that Ali, in my opinion, has a speed and footwork advantage over Adamek. I wasnt sure of Adamek's reach. I figured it wasnt 80. Now, are you really comparing Wlad or Vitaly to Buster Mathis Sr?? Mathis's reach is only around 75 or 76 too. Not to mention, Buster Mathis weight was due to excessive fat. The Klits are 240lbs of muscle.
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gravytrain
post Jan 26 2011, 11:09 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 26 2011, 10:55 PM) *
Dude, relax... We were just comparing size. I think I mentioned that Ali, in my opinion, has a speed and footwork advantage over Adamek. I wasnt sure of Adamek's reach. I figured it wasnt 80. Now, are you really comparing Wlad or Vitaly to Buster Mathis Sr?? Mathis's reach is only around 75 or 76 too. Not to mention, Buster Mathis weight was due to excessive fat. The Klits are 240lbs of muscle.


I feel comfortable doing it.
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JLUVBABY
post Jan 26 2011, 11:29 PM
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QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 26 2011, 07:12 PM) *
You don't get the benefits of the advancements of sports medicine if you don't use it, I can't really think of any HW fighters using it other than the Klits. Look at two of the biggest fighters in the sport; Mayweather and Pac. Mayweather doesn't do anything special, he trains the same way fighters have been training for decades. Before Pac got Ariza he was doing the same thing too, all he did was take some Centrum multivitamin bullshit. Come to think of it a lot of fighters don't do much beyond some stuff with medicine balls but that's used back in the day too.


Most fighters train different then they did years ago... from the nutrition to the supplements that are available... the machines they have to train on are much more complex now... the fighter today is much more athletically inclined then the fighters before... thats not to say there are other intangibles that level the playing feild for the fighters of yester year cuzz there are...
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JLUVBABY
post Jan 26 2011, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (blackbelt2003 @ Jan 26 2011, 03:48 PM) *
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.

Boxing training isn't too different now to what it was fifty years ago. A fighter's staple regime is still running, padwork and sparring. A few guys lift a few weights, but generally, the guys who are big into their weight training aren't neccessarily the strongest or biggest hitters.

And diet has changed a lot and improved fighter's longevity, but I think that can be counteracted by the way modern lifestyle isn't as demanding any more so fighters aren't quite as tough as they used to be, at least in the west anyway.

Put it all together and I don't think fighters are significantly BETTER these days. Different maybe, stronger in some areas, weaker in others, but not better or worse.



The thing that is interesting to an Adamek-Klit fight is the whole size thing. If Adamek was 6'6" or Klitschko was 6'1" then this fight would be 50/50. The only thing separating them is the size issue. If Adamek does well against Klitschko then we can say, 'size doesn't matter as much as we thought, perhaps guys comparable to Adamek in size, such as Ali, Liston etc would have beaten the modern giants.

But if Adamek gets wasted and can't get close, then we'd have to say, 'well maybe the Klits are just too big to be beaten by a little guy, no matter how good the little guy is."


I'm hoping for the former, because I'd love to think the heavyweight division is still the heavyweight division like it was in the 50's, 60's or 70's. not some modern phenomenon where you have to be 250lbs to stand a chance.




Black


rather ademak does well or not there is no comparison between him and ali... where do the comparisons begin?... they are two completely different types of fighters... ali being infinately more skilled then ademak in every catagory... what adamek does with klit has no bearing on how ali would fare with either one of them...
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gravytrain
post Jan 27 2011, 12:22 AM
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QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 26 2011, 11:29 PM) *
Most fighters train different then they did years ago... from the nutrition to the supplements that are available... the machines they have to train on are much more complex now... the fighter today is much more athletically inclined then the fighters before... thats not to say there are other intangibles that level the playing feild for the fighters of yester year cuzz there are...


Mayweather and Pac weren't even taking supplements before, Mayweather said he didn't even start taking a multivitamin until he was 30 something. Mayweather probably just trains and only somewhat recently did Pac start doing some conditioning outside the normal boxing shit. Without Ariza Pac would still just be doing typical boxing stuff and taking his Centrum. Off the top of my head the only fighters I can think of to do shit outside of normal boxing training is the Klits, Pac, Khan, and Haye.
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JLUVBABY
post Jan 27 2011, 12:55 AM
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QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 26 2011, 11:22 PM) *
Mayweather and Pac weren't even taking supplements before, Mayweather said he didn't even start taking a multivitamin until he was 30 something. Mayweather probably just trains and only somewhat recently did Pac start doing some conditioning outside the normal boxing shit. Without Ariza Pac would still just be doing typical boxing stuff and taking his Centrum. Off the top of my head the only fighters I can think of to do shit outside of normal boxing training is the Klits, Pac, Khan, and Haye.


but that has nothing to do with the facilities that they use today are far more advanced than what was available even in the 70's... even most of the 80's... and as for pac the jury is still out on that guy... ariza has him on some stuff thats closed door...
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STEVENSKI
post Jan 27 2011, 01:27 AM
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QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 27 2011, 02:02 PM) *
Post exile Ali defeated someone nearly 30 pounds heavier in Buster Mathis so how much is that weight advantage really going to mean?


What the fuck are you crapping on about? You are comparing a lard puck like Mathis to a Klit?

(IMG:http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/04/30/gal_fat-mathis.jpg)

If you are going to talk about weight advantages then at least use a boxer that is a healthy weight. Mathis was a classic fatman with fast hands & zero pop on his shots.
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gravytrain
post Jan 27 2011, 01:27 AM
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QUOTE (JLUVBABY @ Jan 27 2011, 12:55 AM) *
but that has nothing to do with the facilities that they use today are far more advanced than what was available even in the 70's... even most of the 80's... and as for pac the jury is still out on that guy... ariza has him on some stuff thats closed door...


boxing equipment? idk about that, wasn't boxing back in the 70s and 80s lol. i don't think the little changes to bags are going to change much in terms of performance. you're right if you're talking about strength equipment but you've got to use it and the knowledge to take advantage of it.
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STEVENSKI
post Jan 27 2011, 01:28 AM
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QUOTE (gravytrain @ Jan 27 2011, 03:09 PM) *
I feel comfortable doing it.


What are you on?
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