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[SENTRAL]

On April 8th David Lemieux takes his next step towards global middleweight super-stardom when he faces the experienced Mexican, Marco Antonio Rubio.  This is something of an acid test for David who would be wise not to overlook the vastly more experienced Rubio.  Marco has heavy hands and if he manages to land a bomb on Lemieux we will all find out if, as I believe, David is the real thing.
  I take David to blast Rubio out in frightening fashion, sending out a statement of intent to the rest of the middleweight division, none more so than champion Martinez.  There are many skeptics claiming the Canadian will be exposed when he gets hit, or when his devastating punching power isn't enough to take his man out, and his stamina is found wanting. Rubio is on a 6 fight winning streak since his uninspired defeat by Kelly Pavlik but he is not the man to upset Lemieux.

David Lemieux KO 2.

[JLUVBABY]

in all fairness mexicutioner made some good points... first of all this is boxing... the opponent is supposed to have a chance or why even fight.... boxing needs more fights like that where the prospect truly gets tested... now lemieux's team has an idea of what they need to work on and tweak some things... which leads me to number 2... the kid is only 22 years old and he fought a good solid vet last night... it was a good learning fight for the kid if he is able to deal with the defeat... honestly the state of boxing is getting to the point to where the undefeated (zero losses) means dollar signs but it dont necc mean skill level... a lot of these guys rack off these undefeated records vs has beens and no hopers and get spanked on the world level because they are under prepared... id rather band wagon a fighter that has tested himself against good solid pros and tweaked what he needed to tweak before going into the big fights... the kid has a lot of time to learn from his mistakes.. all it means is his team can slow down the express train to the title and let the kid better learn his craft... NOW, with all that said he may still prove to be a b level fighter when its all said and done but i think some are a little quick to brand the kid a hype job just yet... truth is he can fight.... he got caught and its fights like that that keep boxings lights on... those types of fights have to happen... khan was one punch k.o'd and now some consider him the best 140 lber in boxing... lets see how the kid comes back and what, if anything, he learns from his first defeat....

[gravytrain]

in all fairness mexicutioner made some good points... first of all this is boxing... the opponent is supposed to have a chance or why even fight.... boxing needs more fights like that where the prospect truly gets tested... now lemieux's team has an idea of what they need to work on and tweak some things... which leads me to number 2... the kid is only 22 years old and he fought a good solid vet last night... it was a good learning fight for the kid if he is able to deal with the defeat... honestly the state of boxing is getting to the point to where the undefeated (zero losses) means dollar signs but it dont necc mean skill level... a lot of these guys rack off these undefeated records vs has beens and no hopers and get spanked on the world level because they are under prepared... id rather band wagon a fighter that has tested himself against good solid pros and tweaked what he needed to tweak before going into the big fights... the kid has a lot of time to learn from his mistakes.. all it means is his team can slow down the express train to the title and let the kid better learn his craft... NOW, with all that said he may still prove to be a b level fighter when its all said and done but i think some are a little quick to brand the kid a hype job just yet... truth is he can fight.... he got caught and its fights like that that keep boxings lights on... those types of fights have to happen... khan was one punch k.o'd and now some consider him the best 140 lber in boxing... lets see how the kid comes back and what, if anything, he learns from his first defeat....

maybe before. i don't see how you could believe some bullshit like that though J. was Mayweather/Marquez supposed to be a fight where the fighter had a chance? all through the rankings of boxing there are fights where if the favorite doesn't win it's an upset and most of the time it isn't by chance. there's a reason to fight people that have no chance and it's because you get paid lol.

Ohh my bad u boxed for 4 years. In that case talk all the shit you want. Give me a break. I don't think trashing a guy and calling him a bum is much of an opinion. In any case Lemieux is very young and still has lots of boxing ahead of him. I think Lemieux domination of lesser opposition was is down fall as be thought he could do the same with any fighters. Boxing reality can be harsh. He got way a head of himself. But being so young he still has a future.

Were you any good when you boxed for those 4 years gravytrain? Did you box professionally or just golden gloves or just trained? Where did you box?

or he was matched poorly and they did nothing to make him grow as a fighter by feeding him no hopers. i don't think Lemieux minded since he called out Martinez. he's just another fighter that padded his resume then got exposed. if you want to talk shit like you're the best then you open yourself up for criticism. Lemieux did exactly that and lost to a B fighter.

i don't live in Mexico, i couldn't have turned pro at the ages i boxed lol. i wasn't bad, i did a lot of small regional tournaments but couldn't really do GG because i couldn't get out of school.

Lol You guys are ridiculous calling him a bum and shit. The dude is 22 years old and still has all the potential in the world, in fact he was winning that fight 5 rounds to 1 and I had him winning that 7th round until the knockdown and stoppage. You guys are judging this dude cus he gets a lil hype so alot of u hope he gets exposed and most of you guys have never seen more than a fight or a couple quick highlight vids. The kid got caught flush and it ended in his own demise.. But I still think the kid can definitely become a titleholder and if there were a rematch, i'd have my money on Lemieux to win the rematch judging by how he was doing vs. Rubio throughout the greater portion of the fight; granted, he's gotta do some fine tweaking but he'll be ok. Shiet, you fools act like cus a fighter gets caught by a good punch and loses a bout suddenly he's a bum not every1 that loses a bout automatically becomes a bum; That's jus the type of sport boxing is, every1 has a puncher's chance to win a fight.

what was there other than highlight vids? they matched him against such shitty opposition that he was blowing through all of them. he might have even blown a couple.

that shit wasn't just a fluke punch, Rubio came alive in the 2nd half of the fight. if not for that he would have kept getting knocked down and eventually he really would have been stopped, his trainer just knew it wasn't happening for him so he ended it.

[JLUVBABY]

maybe before. i don't see how you could believe some bullshit like that though J. was Mayweather/Marquez supposed to be a fight where the fighter had a chance? all through the rankings of boxing there are fights where if the favorite doesn't win it's an upset and most of the time it isn't by chance. there's a reason to fight people that have no chance and it's because you get paid lol.

yeah i believe that what i said thats why i typed it... lol... a few people on this board felt marquez could win the fight... no matter how you try to twist it this is boxing... anything can happen at any given time... just cuzz you dont see something a certain way doesnt make it not so... lemieux isnt all of a sudden a trash fighter cuzz of one loss... and you say that like rubio is just a punk fighter?... lol... the guy is a seasoned vet.... he is supposed to have some kind of a chance vs such a green kid...

hopkins lost his first fight... guys like freddie pendleton where less than .500 fighters at certain points of their careers... and to compare a mayweather fight to a lemieux type of fighter at this stage of his career is a little far left dont you think?... thats an apples and oranges type of comparison...

This post has been edited by JLUVBABY: Apr 9 2011, 04:31 PM

[gravytrain]

yeah i believe that what i said thats why i typed it... lol... a few people on this board felt marquez could win the fight... no matter how you try to twist it this is boxing... anything can happen at any given time... just cuzz you dont see something a certain way doesnt make it not so... lemieux isnt all of a sudden a trash fighter cuzz of one loss... and you say that like rubio is just a punk fighter?... lol... the guy is a seasoned vet.... he is supposed to have some kind of a chance vs such a green kid...

hopkins lost his first fight... guys like freddie pendleton where less than .500 fighters at certain points of their careers... and to compare a mayweather fight to a lemieux type of fighter at this stage of his career is a little far left dont you think?... thats an apples and oranges type of comparison...

it's a case of a huge mismatch where it wasn't going to be any competition at all. people can give it a chance all they want to but if they're not willing to lay some money on it then it's just talking. i really doubt anyone would have put money on Marquez over Mayweather, at most someone may have bet on the scores and given him a couple rounds.

Lemieux isn't all of a sudden a trash fighter, he's been. he just looked good because there was nobody in front of him. the Detroit Lions would look like the baddest motherfuckers in the NFL if they played against a high school team but that translates to nothing once they step it up. he's the potential to rebound since he's still young but i really doubt he'll beat any top 160 lber. Rubio is seasoned, i'm not denying that, but facts are facts and he hasn't had much opposition since his loss to Pavlik and on paper should have been an easy fight for Lemieux. i really just thought this would be about like Pac/Clottey but i'm happy to see Rubio stop Lemieux, hopefully the man starts fighting more because he can be competitive if he just doesn't let himself get outworked. Rubio coming in as a unranked 8/1 underdog wasn't unfair to him either and Lemieux and his team very much thought as this as just an easy way to a title.

the kid turned pro when he was 18 who else were they gona match him up against? top contenders? seasoned veterans? fuck that, the kid has barely developed the strength and physique to be facing that level of opposition at such a young age and within the past year he's been stepping up the level of opposition and got caught by a solid punch by Rubio, it's as easy as that. Yea Rubio was coming alive, but Lemieux was clearly winning the fight 5 rounds to 1 and was looking to take that 7th round as well before the knockdown. Shit, a kid with high expectations who shows all the potential in the world loses a bout and he never lives it down; i mean, Even if the kid didn't lose he'd still be considered a "hype job" by every1 and his opposition still wouldn't have been good enough smh. just like how people continue to rag on Khan for being overrated cus he got caught flush and lost ONE fight, the fact he was able to stand in there and survive the final 3 rounds with Maidana means nothing to people despite the tenacity he displayed staying up and not going down. the kid is 22, young and was fighting a good fight. he clealry needs to go back to the drawing board and fix things up but the kid is still capable of big things just cus he loses ONE fight doesn't mean shit, give him an opportunity to bounce back, one loss doesn't mean the end of a career by any means

if they increased his quality of opposition instead of giving him bums that didn't stand a chance he might not have got stopped by Rubio. all Lemieux and his team did was sandbag. you can't expect to get better at anything if you don't challenge yourself.

i don't see why people bring up Khan, they've about the same amount of fights but Khan already stepped it up and did it after getting his ass kicked. he called out Maidana and beat him. Lemieux has done what, fight a B fighter? Khan has done much more with his number of fights than Lemieux and will most likely be fighting Bradley while Lemieux is still fighting cab drivers. there's a chance Lemieux can rebound but i really don't see him ever living up to his hype or what he thought he was when he was beating up on cans.

lol good news for u but or the sport of boxing, boxing could use more fighters like Lemieux. Young kids with charisma, fan appeal and KO power who can draw big crowds and generate more revenue that most world champs...regardless of the win, Rubio doesn't and isn't gonna attract flies.

maybe Canadian boxing, this cat wasn't doing anything for the sport. if anything he should have got some real challenges before even being able to fight in a title eliminator. Rubio might not attract flies but he sure can send fools running to their dressing room.

[mexi-cutioner]

it's a case of a huge mismatch where it wasn't going to be any competition at all. people can give it a chance all they want to but if they're not willing to lay some money on it then it's just talking. i really doubt anyone would have put money on Marquez over Mayweather, at most someone may have bet on the scores and given him a couple rounds.

Lemieux isn't all of a sudden a trash fighter, he's been. he just looked good because there was nobody in front of him. the Detroit Lions would look like the baddest motherfuckers in the NFL if they played against a high school team but that translates to nothing once they step it up. he's the potential to rebound since he's still young but i really doubt he'll beat any top 160 lber. Rubio is seasoned, i'm not denying that, but facts are facts and he hasn't had much opposition since his loss to Pavlik and on paper should have been an easy fight for Lemieux. i really just thought this would be about like Pac/Clottey but i'm happy to see Rubio stop Lemieux, hopefully the man starts fighting more because he can be competitive if he just doesn't let himself get outworked. Rubio coming in as a unranked 8/1 underdog wasn't unfair to him either and Lemieux and his team very much thought as this as just an easy way to a title.



if they increased his quality of opposition instead of giving him bums that didn't stand a chance he might not have got stopped by Rubio. all Lemieux and his team did was sandbag. you can't expect to get better at anything if you don't challenge yourself.

i don't see why people bring up Khan, they've about the same amount of fights but Khan already stepped it up and did it after getting his ass kicked. he called out Maidana and beat him. Lemieux has done what, fight a B fighter? Khan has done much more with his number of fights than Lemieux and will most likely be fighting Bradley while Lemieux is still fighting cab drivers. there's a chance Lemieux can rebound but i really don't see him ever living up to his hype or what he thought he was when he was beating up on cans.




maybe Canadian boxing, this cat wasn't doing anything for the sport. if anything he should have got some real challenges before even being able to fight in a title eliminator. Rubio might not attract flies but he sure can send fools running to their dressing room.

You clearly don't know much about Lemieux if you have a problem with the quality of oppositions. THe dude has been raised very well by his management team, just last year he fought aseasoned veteran in Walid Smichet and Hector Camacho Jr. and Elvin Ayala, a dude who drew with Sergio Mora and challenged Arthur Abraham for the title and went 12 rounds. Those dudes all have tons of experience and i don't know about ubut I wouldn't call a dude who challenges for a title and draws with world champs a taxi driver.

I bring up Khan cus Khan is a similar same case in point; he was knocked out by a huge underdog in a fight by a solid punch and every1 started coming out calling Khan overrated with a padded record who fought tomato cans and expired veterans. motherfuckers were judging a fighter's entire career and potential based on one fight....now he's got a world title and beating opposition that are way better and way heavier hitters than Prescott at lightweight. Difference between Lemieux and Khan in their losses is Khan was stopped by one punch and out, while Lemieux was dominating Rubio and looked like he was going to end the fight early till Rubio scored big with a solid punch but he was virtually down 6-1 on the cards. You act like Rubio wiped the floor with this kid when it was the other way around for the greater majority of the fight.

If filling up stadiums, generating solid revenue, getting views on national television and bringing excitement isn't good for boxing (only Canadian boxing) then what is good for boxing? You jus hatin' cus Canada actually support and stand behind their fighters and dish out some money to watch them on TV and in the stadiums, while alot of Americans either don't know or give a fuck about most of their fighters.

This post has been edited by mexi-cutioner: Apr 10 2011, 02:38 AM

[gravytrain]

You clearly don't know much about Lemieux if you have a problem with the quality of oppositions. THe dude has been raised very well by his management team, just last year he fought aseasoned veteran in Walid Smichet and Hector Camacho Jr. and Elvin Ayala, a dude who drew with Sergio Mora and challenged Arthur Abraham for the title and went 12 rounds. Those dudes all have tons of experience and i don't know about ubut I wouldn't call a dude who challenges for a title and draws with world champs a taxi driver.

I bring up Khan cus Khan is a similar same case in point; he was knocked out by a huge underdog in a fight by a solid punch and every1 started coming out calling Khan overrated with a padded record who fought tomato cans and expired veterans. motherfuckers were judging a fighter's entire career and potential based on one fight....now he's got a world title and beating opposition that are way better and way heavier hitters than Prescott at lightweight. Difference between Lemieux and Khan in their losses is Khan was stopped by one punch and out, while Lemieux was dominating Rubio and looked like he was going to end the fight early till Rubio scored big with a solid punch but he was virtually down 6-1 on the cards. You act like Rubio wiped the floor with this kid when it was the other way around for the greater majority of the fight.

If filling up stadiums, generating solid revenue, getting views on national television and bringing excitement isn't good for boxing (only Canadian boxing) then what is good for boxing? You jus hatin' cus Canada actually support and stand behind their fighters and dish out some money to watch them on TV and in the stadiums, while alot of Americans either don't know or give a fuck about most of their fighters.

Ayala got knocked out against Abraham and really wasn't doing too well after the first few round of a fight Abraham always took off. once Abraham started fighting Abraham was winning and in round 12 he stopped him. he got a draw with Mora like 3 years prior to fighting Lemieux. after the loss and draw what did he do? same with the other fighters you mentioned. his management wanted to keep seeing the same early stoppages because that's what got Lemieux so much attention, they weren't worried about gradually increasing the quality of opposition. after Raines he should have stepped it up in the rankings but they just kept matching him up with fighters he should have and did end it early against.

Khan is overrated, Bradley is going to beat the brown off of him. Lemieux however wasn't looking so nice once Rubio started fighting in the 5th and was gradually broken down and beaten until it got stopped in round 7. this wasn't 1 shot, it's being in the ring with someone that turned out to be a live opponent.

Americans have a lot of options when it comes to boxing, all the real fighters want to make it here. domestic fighters and fighters from abroad get some attention from the boxing public here. Americans just can't get behind some Lemieux like fighter because we support guys that actually have enough balls to stay in the ring and do an interview after a loss (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) .

As far as the mayweather comparison... again... nobody really knew what type of mayweather we where going to see and yes some people did give marquez a chance and yes some did bet on marquez... i dont know about on this site if any one actually bet on marquez but he did get play at the casinos but the fact is in this sport a fighter of mayweathers status or any other fighter consider p4p or a great fighter for the time can on any given night be shocked and ko'd and or beaten by a lesser fighter thats figured by the general public to not be on that fighters level... the sport is full of those stories and the sport thrives off of those types of nights... upsets are very good for the sport and keeps interest in the sport... thats why there is betting on the fights with odds... chances decrease depending on who a certain fighter is facing or increase but i wouldnt care if mayweather stepped in the ring with vivian harris who just got stopped in one this past week... no matter how you try to twist it harris would have a chance in the fight till mayweather showed otherwise... im sure you will say mayweather wipes the floor with harris as most logical people would but truth is we dont know till they fight... at this particular time that wold be an assumption because the fight has not happened yet... they could fight and harris throws a fluke punch and ko mayweather... just saying... that is the point im trying to get you to see that nothing is a given in this sport till it actually goes down...

i used mayweather vs marquez as an example and i used khan cuzz its the perfect example of a highly touted contender getting beat in a pretty similar fashion to lemieux by a fighter that wasnt supposed to have a shot... up till that point you can argue khans level of opposition as well... matter of fact rubio was a much bigger name in boxing than prescott was... prescott was considered young and untested with a big punch and khan hadnt fought any real fighters up till that point... actually lemieux if you wantto compare the two has fought the better comp leading into his loss than khan did since you went there to compre the opponents.... rubio is a fighter we know of and is a solid veteran professional that showed this kid he still needed some growth before moving up anymore in the ranks as they where trying to do.... rubio was the perfect test for the kid and actually lemieux was winning the fight when he got caught... he was passing his test for the most part.. as far as who he has fought... he has shown a steady upgrade in opponents in his last 10 fights... they all had winning records (over the .500 mark) and most of them where very solid fighters with wining records... so i dont see the point you are trying to make calling his opponents cab drivers...

like i said before... lemieux being only 22 for sure can rebound and i wouldnt call him a bum just like i wont call kirkland a bum for the loss he took tonight... is kirkland all of a sudden a bum for the way he got destroyed tonight?.... if you consider lemieux a bum then kirkland surely is a bum as well if i am too judge off the logic you are using... matter a fact maidana can be labaled a bum as well cuzz most on this board figured morales was shot to shit and some even feared for his safety... so i guess maidana should be considered a bum too cuzz personally i thought morales gained a draw or it should have gone either way by a poit or two but a non bum would have and should have finished the washed up morales quick right?.. just saying man i dont know if you just have a HATE for lemieux or if you are just too critical of the guy in general but it happens... he took a minor step back... either way just try to remember he's still a kid... he has plenty of time to rebound and correct his mistakes... and to tell you if they work on the kids cardio and endurance id favor him over rubio in a rematch... you act like rubio dominated the dude the whole fight...

i know nothing is a given in this sport but boxing is also filled with mismatches because mismatches still get the fighter and promoter paid, they could even get a title out of it[Alvarez]. it'd be like if Mayweather actually fought Spadafora, that shit is purely easy money and low risk/high reward.

records don't mean shit, how you beat them and the quality of opposition is everything. Lemieux's last 10 were largely domestic fighters fighting poor opposition in their home country and a lot had losses going into the fight. some even had losses by stoppage and KO going into it. a guy like his previous opponent Purnell Gates last 5 opponents were 27-65-3 and dude is in his late 30s. this wasn't just Lemieux getting caught either, Lemieux was getting roughed up in the 6th and got stopped in the 7th.

Kirkland was a hot prospect before but he did nothing to show he's back and got stopped. he's officially bum status. same with Lemieux, he got an opponent that took the fight to him in the middle part of the fight and folded. he might have won the first 5 but the 6th on was a fight and we saw how long it lasted.

Just watched the fight and my first impression is that Lemieux getting exposed is worlds apart from Kirkland getting exposed, as it seems some people are comparing the two. Lemieux's loss seemed to be a result of miscalculating the fight and underestimating his opponent. I also think he could have potentially survived being hurt but his corner probably thought it better to fight another day. But after reading some of the comments on this thread, it sounds like Lemieux was a cocky little shit so he probably got the humble pie he was asking for.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Kirkland, on the other hand, got exposed for having no chin. Ain't much you can do about that except maybe learn how to protect that chin.

Either way, both these guys need to learn how to tie up a fighter when they're hurt and stop relying on their power/aggressiveness, but from what saw, Lemieux has a better chance of salvaging his career than Kirkland does. Maybe these two need to face each other in the ring.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dntknw.gif)

And BTW, wasn't the ref in that fight Marlon B Wright?

i think it's hard to compare the 2. Lemieux was freer than braless tits and Kirkland had legal troubles that held him back from his boxing career, Lemieux's freedom gave him a lot more opportunities to grow as a fighter and refine his craft. staying out of the gym and out of the ring for a year is going to make you've some serious ring rust too. i'm not saying i called the upset with Kirkland but it's not like he didn't spend a year away from boxing while still being a developing fighter.

[JLUVBABY]

i know nothing is a given in this sport but boxing is also filled with mismatches because mismatches still get the fighter and promoter paid, they could even get a title out of it[Alvarez]. it'd be like if Mayweather actually fought Spadafora, that shit is purely easy money and low risk/high reward.

records don't mean shit, how you beat them and the quality of opposition is everything. Lemieux's last 10 were largely domestic fighters fighting poor opposition in their home country and a lot had losses going into the fight. some even had losses by stoppage and KO going into it. a guy like his previous opponent Purnell Gates last 5 opponents were 27-65-3 and dude is in his late 30s. this wasn't just Lemieux getting caught either, Lemieux was getting roughed up in the 6th and got stopped in the 7th.

Kirkland was a hot prospect before but he did nothing to show he's back and got stopped. he's officially bum status. same with Lemieux, he got an opponent that took the fight to him in the middle part of the fight and folded. he might have won the first 5 but the 6th on was a fight and we saw how long it lasted.

i see you are stuck in your opinion and it is much respected... its yours... i will respectfully disagree... 1 loss doesnt put a fighter into bum status in my view but hey... you have your own views on how things roll... lol.... we all do for that matter... just as the case of mayweather and spad... yeah id pick mayweather to win all day long if they fight but i wont call it a win till they fight, the final bell sounds and mays hand is raised in victory... anything can happen with those 12 rounds or less of action...

[gravytrain]

i see you are stuck in your opinion and it is much respected... its yours... i will respectfully disagree... 1 loss doesnt put a fighter into bum status in my view but hey... you have your own views on how things roll... lol.... we all do for that matter... just as the case of mayweather and spad... yeah id pick mayweather to win all day long if they fight but i wont call it a win till they fight, the final bell sounds and mays hand is raised in victory... anything can happen with those 12 rounds or less of action...

it's not that he lost. it's how he lost, who he lost to, and the hype surrounding the guy. this guy was ranked by everyone in the top 10 or right outside of it by everyone at MW and in my opinion didn't really have the body of work to justify it. he did have a high activity level but taking on guys that got knocked out their fight before you and have lost 3/5 going into a fight with you isn't going to help you grow as a fighter just provide somebody to stop in 2 rounds. i think this fight really showed that Lemieux was being matched more for the money and entertaining the fans than helping him grow as a fighter and that his skill level was really overestimated because of all the stoppages.

he's not a bum because he got beat, he's a bum because i really have my doubts how well he'll do in the ring with the top guys of the division and in my opinion is going to be even more of a bust than he already is. this cat is going to be the Sebastian Telfair of boxing.

Deal, and if Khan beats Bradley, you've gotta make the pic posted as your avatar and your signature has to be "David Lemieux #1 P4P fighter in the world from the #1 P4P Country in the world! OH CANADA!!!! <3 <3 <3"

(IMG:http://fightnews.com/Boxing/20100615lemieux500.jpg)

i'll be on the nuts of Lemieux like it's JLo's ass.

[JLUVBABY]

it's not that he lost. it's how he lost, who he lost to, and the hype surrounding the guy. this guy was ranked by everyone in the top 10 or right outside of it by everyone at MW and in my opinion didn't really have the body of work to justify it. he did have a high activity level but taking on guys that got knocked out their fight before you and have lost 3/5 going into a fight with you isn't going to help you grow as a fighter just provide somebody to stop in 2 rounds. i think this fight really showed that Lemieux was being matched more for the money and entertaining the fans than helping him grow as a fighter and that his skill level was really overestimated because of all the stoppages.

he's not a bum because he got beat, he's a bum because i really have my doubts how well he'll do in the ring with the top guys of the division and in my opinion is going to be even more of a bust than he already is. this cat is going to be the Sebastian Telfair of boxing.

i got you gravy... lol... well like i said you are entitled to your opinion.... i wasnt aware that kirkland came out of the penn and automatically recieved a ranking at mw... if that happened then i'll agree with you that was b.s... i back you all day long on that... as far as this japenese guy... again... i wont just totally dismiss the kid off this one loss.. i think the guy came here motivated and wasnt here to lay down for kirkland nor was he intimidated by the circumstances... and he is a former wba interim champion to boot so YOU can call the guy a scrub but he had to have displayed some type of skill at some point in his career to win a strap... even if it was a paper belt which is what he obviously held... bums dont get to the point of paper champion... they have something rather it be enough to beat the elite or not... but if you havent and the rest of you havent you might wanna check the guys boxrec like i just did to make sure im not missing anything.... most of Nobuhiro Ishida's losses came earlier in his career with his last fight before kirkland being a split decision loss where he lost the wba interim title via sd... prior to that he was on 11 fight streak where he had not lost a fight with 10 wins and 1 draw... you can argue the quality of opponents but a bum fighter just doesnt rack off that many wins in a row... call him a bum... call kirkland a bum... i am very confident in saying you are wrong in your assessment and any one that agrees with you is wrong as well but that is my opinion... i think the more likely scenario may be kirkland, while also needing better training if he is going to go far in the sport may have played a factor, ran into a fighter that is coming into his own as a fighter and his record shows that and what happened in the fight is the result of the very prepared up and comer unknown fighter for the most part other than that interim title he held briefly vs an over confident underprepared prospect that most people know of... im not gonna take away from this japanese kid who came here and fought his heart out and EARNED his win...

and kirkland a bum fighter?... not by any means.. he has beaten some descent fighters along the way... true bums dont rack up 27-0 24 ko's and knocking out joel julio and brian vera along the way... see that thinking has a trickle effect when you say that as to who are really bums in the sport... cuzz kirkland ko'd brian vera that just beat mora that drew with mosley and beat vernon forrest... and im using your method of logic here gravy and using your logic with knowing a bum fighter like kirkland as you consider him was good enough to walk through vera... well then vera must REALLY be a bum right?... which makes mora even more a bum right?... which makes shane mosley a shot bum and vernon forrest an even bigger bum than mora right?... just saying... nothing is ever exact in this sport... this type of stuff happens to fighters... its a part of the sport... kirkland needs a lot of work and better preperation and probably needs to go back to ann wolfe if he is going to reach the top... ALL DAY LONG..... but a bum... I'M not gonna label him a bum off one defeat...