Replies

[Michigan Assassi...]

I'm sure a huge signing bonus is involved but other than that I don't understand this move by Donaire.

After Mares (if he wins the Showtime tourney) what other big fights can Golden Boy offer?

Not to mention the lawsuit that Arum is going to bring, which may very well keep ND on the shelf for a bit. Makes very little sense with all the momentum he's recently gained.

[mexi-cutioner]

People forget that Golden Boy hasn't been around for that long, they've been around for barely under a decade and even though they haven't developed a brand new talent from scratch, they've recruited A LOT of big names, many of whom continue to stay with the brand.

Honestly, it's about looking at what Donaire has done with Arum to understand why the move was made. Nonito was promised a 3 fight/year contract and in 2008 he had one defence, 2 fights in 2009 and 2010 was the first year Arum lived up to the contractual promises. Also, look at the quality of opponents Arum has been putting him in with: for example, last february he fought at 115 against Manuel Vargas, a dude who fought his 5 previous fights at STRAWWEIGHT. Then he fought Hernan Marquez in his next fight, a dude coming off a loss to a mediocre filipino prospect on the Pac-Clottey card. He's fought alot of guys below his level and it can't be any worse than what GBP will be offering him.

Thing with Golden Boy is GBP racks up probably the most boxing televised coverage in America compared to all the other promotional companies. HBO, HBO Latino, Showtime, Telefutura, and ESPN all air GBP shows on the regular and there's a certainty that Donaire will be getting fights on HBO and Showtime on the regular, something i felt GBP could've guaranteed before isntead of Arum putting him on these shitty ass Pinoy Power and Latin Fury TopRank-PPV cards--how the fuck is a young prospect going to gain exposure on these cards that probably only rack up 60-80K buys on a good day???

This post has been edited by mexi-cutioner: Mar 18 2011, 07:45 AM

[The Ollie Reed F...]

People forget that Golden Boy hasn't been around for that long, they've been around for barely under a decade and even though they haven't developed a brand new talent from scratch, they've recruited A LOT of big names, many of whom continue to stay with the brand.

Honestly, it's about looking at what Donaire has done with Arum to understand why the move was made. Nonito was promised a 3 fight/year contract and in 2008 he had one defence, 2 fights in 2009 and 2010 was the first year Arum lived up to the contractual promises. Also, look at the quality of opponents Arum has been putting him in with: for example, last february he fought at 115 against Manuel Vargas, a dude who fought his 5 previous fights at STRAWWEIGHT. Then he fought Hernan Marquez in his next fight, a dude coming off a loss to a mediocre filipino prospect on the Pac-Clottey card. He's fought alot of guys below his level and it can't be any worse than what GBP will be offering him.

Thing with Golden Boy is GBP racks up probably the most boxing televised coverage in America compared to all the other promotional companies. HBO, HBO Latino, Showtime, Telefutura, and ESPN all air GBP shows on the regular and there's a certainty that Donaire will be getting fights on HBO and Showtime on the regular, something i felt GBP could've guaranteed before isntead of Arum putting him on these shitty ass Pinoy Power and Latin Fury TopRank-PPV cards--how the fuck is a young prospect going to gain exposure on these cards that probably only rack up 60-80K buys on a good day???

If Mayweather isn't fighting under the Golden Boy banner whom do you think in the GBP stable is likely to notch up 250k PPV figures?

As to continuing to fight under their brand, wasn't Barerra supposed to be a partner? What about Mosley? Hopkins was 10 seconds away from jumping ship at one point and you can bet JMM will be counting the days until he is a free agent.

The only reason Golden Shower have such regular dates with HBO is due to Oscar's relationship with them. GBP has coasted on the basis of this relationship since its inception and really hasn't done sweet FA to shake up the promotional landscape.

Even 24/7 was Floyd's idea!!

And outside of PBF fights this cosy relationship hasn't done much for HBO. They've backed the wrong horse and I think opened up a gap for Showtime, lets see if they can make something of it.

Golden Boy=Lame.

[mexi-cutioner]

If Mayweather isn't fighting under the Golden Boy banner whom do you think in the GBP stable is likely to notch up 250k PPV figures?

As to continuing to fight under their brand, wasn't Barerra supposed to be a partner? What about Mosley? Hopkins was 10 seconds away from jumping ship at one point and you can bet JMM will be counting the days until he is a free agent.

The only reason Golden Shower have such regular dates with HBO is due to Oscar's relationship with them. GBP has coasted on the basis of this relationship since its inception and really hasn't done sweet FA to shake up the promotional landscape.

Even 24/7 was Floyd's idea!!

And outside of PBF fights this cosy relationship hasn't done much for HBO. They've backed the wrong horse and I think opened up a gap for Showtime, lets see if they can make something of it.

Golden Boy=Lame.

At this point in Nonito's career, he's not even ready for an HBO PPV header YET. The dude's garnered enough popularity among the filipino's in America, putting him on some HBO BAD or world Championship shows would make people more familiar with him, that's something Arum wasn't doing. Nonito was fighting goofs on Top Rank PPV shows now c'mon man, how is taht going to help a fighter in his prime develop a fan base? these top rank ppv's arum puts on are dogshit most of the time too JCC Jr. heading the card against a tomato can fuck.

Barrera, Mosley, Hopkins and JMM are all at the ends of their career. And GBP is still managing to put Hopkins in thse big shows fighting Pavlik, Calzaghe, Pascal and the Pascal rematch. What can you argue against GBP bringing up Mosley? He fought Cotto and Margarito, two of the top weltwerweights in the world when they fought; an opportunity against Berto which was scrapped, then he got put in with Mayweather. Even when Mosley was tuning up, they gave him the opportunity to fight Mayorga who sells a fight like no other and the fight was fought in Mosley's backyard so it sold well. Look at who JMM fought as well, it wasn't until the last few years that JMM turned out to be one of the top p4p fighters in the world and all of that time was spent fighting under GBP.

The only reason these dudes jump ship is cus they want a Pacquiao fight. Period. They're at the twilight of their career and want a big pay day to end it.

At this point, Arum is trying to feed Nonito to teh wolves imo. Nonito clearly wants to stay at 118, and Arum is already talking about Nonito moving up to 122-126 which I don't think he's ready for. What's Nonito gonna do next? fight Vazquez jr. and if he wins move him up and pit him against Gamboa? Please, Nonito isn't ready to fight Gamboa at 126. Top Rank was clearly doing all teh wrong things with Nonito and after 3 years of being mistreated, he has every right to jump ship

[The Ollie Reed F...]

At this point in Nonito's career, he's not even ready for an HBO PPV header YET. The dude's garnered enough popularity among the filipino's in America, putting him on some HBO BAD or world Championship shows would make people more familiar with him, that's something Arum wasn't doing. Nonito was fighting goofs on Top Rank PPV shows now c'mon man, how is taht going to help a fighter in his prime develop a fan base? these top rank ppv's arum puts on are dogshit most of the time too JCC Jr. heading the card against a tomato can fuck.

Barrera, Mosley, Hopkins and JMM are all at the ends of their career. And GBP is still managing to put Hopkins in thse big shows fighting Pavlik, Calzaghe, Pascal and the Pascal rematch. What can you argue against GBP bringing up Mosley? He fought Cotto and Margarito, two of the top weltwerweights in the world when they fought; an opportunity against Berto which was scrapped, then he got put in with Mayweather. Even when Mosley was tuning up, they gave him the opportunity to fight Mayorga who sells a fight like no other and the fight was fought in Mosley's backyard so it sold well. Look at who JMM fought as well, it wasn't until the last few years that JMM turned out to be one of the top p4p fighters in the world and all of that time was spent fighting under GBP.

The only reason these dudes jump ship is cus they want a Pacquiao fight. Period. They're at the twilight of their career and want a big pay day to end it.

At this point, Arum is trying to feed Nonito to teh wolves imo. Nonito clearly wants to stay at 118, and Arum is already talking about Nonito moving up to 122-126 which I don't think he's ready for. What's Nonito gonna do next? fight Vazquez jr. and if he wins move him up and pit him against Gamboa? Please, Nonito isn't ready to fight Gamboa at 126. Top Rank was clearly doing all teh wrong things with Nonito and after 3 years of being mistreated, he has every right to jump ship

"Barrera, Mosley, Hopkins and JMM are all at the ends of their career"

You've kinda answered your own argument about Golden Boy. All those fighters were pretty much stars before they joined GBP.

As for Hopkins' fights. He has been kept on ice for long periods of time and you know how unhappy he was about it. In fact he has many times proclaimed himself to be a free agent

Mosley after destroying Margarito and becoming the hottest WW in the world for a quick minute was left to do what? Nothing but sit back and cool his heels. Shrewd move guys.

The only reason JMM became big was his rivarly with Pacquaio. In fact that's also the only reason he got a fight with Floyd, so Floyd could have bragging rights over Manny. It sure as fuck wasn't anything Golden Boy did.

Try re-reading my posts. I haven't said that Arum was doing a goood job with Donaire, and certainly I think Donaire was right to look at his options, I'm just not sure that jumping to GBP is the best move. I'll stand by that. So far those clowns have done nothing to convince me they know how to handle a guys career in the long term.

[mexi-cutioner]

"Barrera, Mosley, Hopkins and JMM are all at the ends of their career"

You've kinda answered your own argument about Golden Boy. All those fighters were pretty much stars before they joined GBP.

As for Hopkins' fights. He has been kept on ice for long periods of time and you know how unhappy he was about it. In fact he has many times proclaimed himself to be a free agent

Mosley after destroying Margarito and becoming the hottest WW in the world for a quick minute was left to do what? Nothing but sit back and cool his heels. Shrewd move guys.

The only reason JMM became big was his rivarly with Pacquaio. In fact that's also the only reason he got a fight with Floyd, so Floyd could have bragging rights over Manny. It sure as fuck wasn't anything Golden Boy did.

Try re-reading my posts. I haven't said that Arum was doing a goood job with Donaire, and certainly I think Donaire was right to look at his options, I'm just not sure that jumping to GBP is the best move. I'll stand by that. So far those clowns have done nothing to convince me they know how to handle a guys career in the long term.

If the biggest predicament you have against GBP building up prospects, just look at how Saul Alvarez is currently being built up. In fact, let's compare Alvarez to Donaire. In the 5 fights since Alvarez has been with GBP he headlined the undercard of Mayweather-Mosley as well as Mora-Mosley, both cards had a good number of sales and attendance. In his other 3 fights vs Cuello, N'Dou and Matthew Hatton, he headlined televised HBO Latino cards and most recently, HBO World Championship Boxing where he won his first world title being one of the youngest to do so, against an opponent he was suposed to beat with a reputable name (hatton). Overrated or not, the dude has developed an IMMENSE following In fact, my buddies who are casual fans that only know the skin and bones of the sport know more about Alvarez than Donaire, simply from having more exposure to Alvarez than DOnaire.

Donaire on the other hand, has fought 4 fights on Top Rank PPV's against overmatched opponents. I'm not sure what the buy rate for those PPV's are but I can assume they are fairly low. MUCH lower than the Mayweather-Mosley and Mora-Mosley PPV's. In Donaire's fight vs Sidorenko, he was promised by Arum a spot as the headliner on the Top Rank PPV after JCC Jr backed out last minute, and instead he once again sat in the backburner as an undercard fighter. Meanwhile, Alvarez fought on the same night vs Lovemore N'dou as the main event on HBO Latino. While both fights had about the same level of meaningfulness (more for Donaire actually, since it set him up for the Montiel bout), I can guarantee you that more people tuned in to Alvarez' win than Donaire's.

True, GBP has had trouble building up its prospects from the ground up, but you make it sound like boxing superstars are built up fairly easily. Considering the era of boxing we live in, i'd say it's now much harder. Alot of it is bad luck. It's clear GBP lost faith in Ortiz after the Maidana loss, but upto that point they were doing very well marketing him. No one expected Danny Jacobs to lose to Pirog, a dude with 15 fights who's fought B and C level europeans his whole career. Another case would Be James Kirkland, it's simply unfortunate he had to go to jail otherwise he was gaining A LOT of momentum as a rising star.

If you can convincingly tell me one or two things Golden Boy will do that could be worse than how Arum was handling Donaire, then I'll quit this debate. It's clear that Arum lacked confidence in Donaire's abilities, hence the reason he continuously fed him taxi drivers for so long on low quality PPVs. Donaire was also extremely inactive up until 2010. By the time he was convinced after teh Sidorenko and Montiel win, it was too late.

This post has been edited by mexi-cutioner: Mar 18 2011, 07:54 PM

[The Ollie Reed F...]

If the biggest predicament you have against GBP building up prospects, just look at how Saul Alvarez is currently being built up. In fact, let's compare Alvarez to Donaire. In the 5 fights since Alvarez has been with GBP he headlined the undercard of Mayweather-Mosley as well as Mora-Mosley, both cards had a good number of sales and attendance. In his other 3 fights vs Cuello, N'Dou and Matthew Hatton, he headlined televised HBO Latino cards and most recently, HBO World Championship Boxing where he won his first world title being one of the youngest to do so, against an opponent he was suposed to beat with a reputable name (hatton). Overrated or not, the dude has developed an IMMENSE following In fact, my buddies who are casual fans that only know the skin and bones of the sport know more about Alvarez than Donaire, simply from having more exposure to Alvarez than DOnaire.

Donaire on the other hand, has fought 4 fights on Top Rank PPV's against overmatched opponents. I'm not sure what the buy rate for those PPV's are but I can assume they are fairly low. MUCH lower than the Mayweather-Mosley and Mora-Mosley PPV's. In Donaire's fight vs Sidorenko, he was promised by Arum a spot as the headliner on the Top Rank PPV after JCC Jr backed out last minute, and instead he once again sat in the backburner as an undercard fighter. Meanwhile, Alvarez fought on the same night vs Lovemore N'dou as the main event on HBO Latino. While both fights had about the same level of meaningfulness (more for Donaire actually, since it set him up for the Montiel bout), I can guarantee you that more people tuned in to Alvarez' win than Donaire's.

True, GBP has had trouble building up its prospects from the ground up, but you make it sound like boxing superstars are built up fairly easily. Considering the era of boxing we live in, i'd say it's now much harder. Alot of it is bad luck. It's clear GBP lost faith in Ortiz after the Maidana loss, but upto that point they were doing very well marketing him. No one expected Danny Jacobs to lose to Pirog, a dude with 15 fights who's fought B and C level europeans his whole career. Another case would Be James Kirkland, it's simply unfortunate he had to go to jail otherwise he was gaining A LOT of momentum as a rising star.

If you can convincingly tell me one or two things Golden Boy will do that could be worse than how Arum was handling Donaire, then I'll quit this debate. It's clear that Arum lacked confidence in Donaire's abilities, hence the reason he continuously fed him taxi drivers for so long on low quality PPVs. Donaire was also extremely inactive up until 2010. By the time he was convinced after teh Sidorenko and Montiel win, it was too late.

Actually Mexi I've said in other threads that I think GBP may be moving Alvarez along too soon. By giving him a title they've given him very little wiggle room to fight some more gatekeeper types and build up his skills.

Now he has to face fully blown contenders.

I suspect the reason they are trying to move him on so quickly is:

A) Ortiz failed badly.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Most of their established stars are on the downside of their careers and their main money man Floyd shows no signs of wanting to get back in the ring.

GBP need a cash cow quick and I bet in their desperation to find one they screw Alvarez's career.

Sorry but as you can tell I'm no fan of the Swiss banker and his cronies. I do realise that all promoters are looking out for Number One but this crowd show a woeful fucken lack of imagination compared to some of the other dogs around.

As for building him up, Saul was absolutely a superstar in Mexico before crossing over to America. Is he that well known in the States? I'm sure amongst the Latino community he is, but amongst the casual fight fans community? C'mon.

AGAIN read my comments. I'm not saying I necassarily disagree with Donaire jumping ship, I'm just not sure he's jumped to the right place.