[Big Slim Sweet]

cant speak for anyone else but my personal dislike for tarver stems from his arrogance and thought in his mind that he is this supreme fighter when in reality he is not... he is cocky when it isnt warrented... the guy was LUCKY in the fact that he caught Roy Jones at the true beginning of his slide in skills and still lost the first fight... got lucky in the second fight with the ko with his eyes closed and all of a sudden he thinks he is king shit... take a look at tarvers record and he has never won a big fight the first time around... he has always needed rematches and that dates back to the eric harding fights... the guy hit the circumstance lotto and it made him a brash cocky shit talker when he didnt have that right... sad thing is some actually give him full credit for that ko of jones which further boosts his shitty ego... i love nothing more than watching him get beat on in the ring and im hoping danny green lays a methodical slow beat down on him...

JLUV you're kinda proving my point here though. I get that you hate Tarver for his arrogance but there is NO WAY you'd even waste the time hating on him to THIS ^^^ extent if it hadn't been for what he did to Roy Jones. He just wouldn't be on your radar the same way.

Incidentally, whatever anyone thinks of Tarver otherwise I believe he deserves full credit for his KO of Jones. Roy was still superman back then. He looked great in the first round of that fight and then just got nailed. And that was the end of that.

[neophyte7]

Referee: Are there any questions. TARVER: Yeah, I got a question, you got any excuses tonight Roy??? CLASSIC SHIT

[and the NEW]

It's actually amazing how many people HATE Danny Green. Even over on the other forum, people are all rooting for Tarver and saying how they dislike Green. Haha.

What is the 'other forum' Fitz?

On first instinct, I go with Green also. Tarver throws about as many punches as BHOP, but with nowhere near the same ring smarts. Green has a serious set of whiskers, so unless it's the Harding KO counter-punch, I don't see Tarver stopping him.

[JLUVBABY]

JLUV you're kinda proving my point here though. I get that you hate Tarver for his arrogance but there is NO WAY you'd even waste the time hating on him to THIS ^^^ extent if it hadn't been for what he did to Roy Jones. He just wouldn't be on your radar the same way.

Incidentally, whatever anyone thinks of Tarver otherwise I believe he deserves full credit for his KO of Jones. Roy was still superman back then. He looked great in the first round of that fight and then just got nailed. And that was the end of that.

tarver could have ko'd anybody with that same status at the time and i would feel the same.... its not that it was ROY JONES.... and fact is, roy wasnt the superman we thought he was in hindsight... Roy killed what prime he had left dropping that muscle weight to go back down to lt heavy to face tarver (no way roy pre heavyweight loses to antonio tarver)... he would never be the same again after the defeat of ruiz... it was the last night we saw a prime roy or anything close to it... didnt know it then but it is what it is.. roy should have cashed out at heavyweight taking the tyson and holyfield fights 2 fights i think he would have won by the way and cashed out vs lewis... he wouldnt be fighting now...

tarver faced the same weight loss demon after blowing up to close to 220 for the rocky balboa movie... he was never the same after that as he was a fairly good fighter in his own right before blowing up in weight to make the movie, just not who he would like to think he was, but a fairly good fighter that was never the same after his weight loss issues... but like i said i hate tarver as a fighter and love seeing him get his cocky ass busted up in fights but can say he is a very good analyst...

[Big Slim Sweet]

and fact is, roy wasnt the superman we thought he was in hindsight... Roy killed what prime he had left dropping that muscle weight to go back down to lt heavy to face tarver (no way roy pre heavyweight loses to antonio tarver)...

That's not a fact though J, it's your opinion, and while I can respect it the fact is we'll never really know. Maybe dropping the weight killed Roy's prime. Maybe getting clocked by Tarver in the rematch snatched his confidence and killed his prime. Maybe he was just getting old and something like that was bound to happen sooner or later anyway. More than likely, IMO, it was a combination of the three. Roy was getting on in years, he messed with his weight which accelerated his decline, and then he got smoked and lost his aura of invincibility which cemented his status as a once great now over the hill.

No one can question that Tarver was the beneficiary of some fortunate circumstances, but he also made those circumstances what they were - goading Roy into a fight and then knocking him the fuck out. Let's not forget, Tarver was Roy's mandatory but Roy chose to go up to face Ruiz first instead - after virtually making a career out of disposing of his mandatories for years. He could have faced Tarver first and then gone up to face Ruiz, but he chose to do it that way.

Roy didn't look great in that first Tarver fight but he didn't look washed up. He didn't look up washed up in the first round of their rematch either. His next fight, when he fought Glen Johnson, Roy was completely washed up.

What Tarver did to Roy Jones can never be taken away. Roy was perceived as unbeatable. Tarver mocked him, asked him if he had any excuses, then blasted him. The special effects in "Star Wars" look like crap now when compared to the technology we see in films today. Doesn't change the fact that when it came out it changed the world.

[neophyte7]

Excellent Tarver and Roy analysis.. Roy seemed to fear Tarver... before their first and second bouts he seemed to have terror in his eyes when they came up for questioning... Bottom line Tarver tamed a legend.. busted his ass and sent him into doldrums of boxing mediocrity. Add that to go along with quality wins over some solid opponents--- hehad a good career...

This post has been edited by neophyte7: Apr 11 2011, 05:40 PM

[JLUVBABY]

That's not a fact though J, it's your opinion, and while I can respect it the fact is we'll never really know. Maybe dropping the weight killed Roy's prime. Maybe getting clocked by Tarver in the rematch snatched his confidence and killed his prime. Maybe he was just getting old and something like that was bound to happen sooner or later anyway. More than likely, IMO, it was a combination of the three. Roy was getting on in years, he messed with his weight which accelerated his decline, and then he got smoked and lost his aura of invincibility which cemented his status as a once great now over the hill.

No one can question that Tarver was the beneficiary of some fortunate circumstances, but he also made those circumstances what they were - goading Roy into a fight and then knocking him the fuck out. Let's not forget, Tarver was Roy's mandatory but Roy chose to go up to face Ruiz first instead - after virtually making a career out of disposing of his mandatories for years. He could have faced Tarver first and then gone up to face Ruiz, but he chose to do it that way.

Roy didn't look great in that first Tarver fight but he didn't look washed up. He didn't look up washed up in the first round of their rematch either. His next fight, when he fought Glen Johnson, Roy was completely washed up.

What Tarver did to Roy Jones can never be taken away. Roy was perceived as unbeatable. Tarver mocked him, asked him if he had any excuses, then blasted him. The special effects in "Star Wars" look like crap now when compared to the technology we see in films today. Doesn't change the fact that when it came out it changed the world.

i feel what you are saying... but in my mind... i will always feel that heavy muscle loss so fast killed what ever prime roy had left... you could look at his body definition and it was not the same.. he looked drained and in a way older... not tryingto make an excuse for him but i just think thats what it was... same thing can be said for tarver.. he experienced the same heavy weight loss issues after blowing up to 220 for the rocky movie then cutting hte weight to move back down... i dont think he was ever the same either... they both should have stayed heavyweights... specially roy and cashed out on his win over ruiz.. he wouldnt have to fight now had he...

with that said i feel roy was declining in the first tarver fight that i actually thought he won very very close... i never felt he should have taken that rematch tho you can make the argument that tho he loss he actually put it together for that 1st round and most of the second till the ko... but thats neither here nor there... he was already declining... i think what he displayed those 1 and a half rounds or how long it was rounds was his last hoorah of skill set and tarver ended it... truth is he was going in the direction of any ordinary fighter being able to beat him... as tarver was very ordinary.. actually eric harding was a superior fighter to him as he showed in the first fight and his fight with a prime lt heavy roy jones.. i look at tarver and i ask myself could tarver have beaten roy pre ruiz... my answer to that is hell no... therefore tarver gets a pass i suppose for that win but he gets it on a technocality.... in a lot of ways he is a lt heavy buster douglas as he never really did much since... i could go on and on bout tarver tho i really dont like him as a fighter... lol.

This post has been edited by JLUVBABY: Apr 11 2011, 09:02 PM

[Big Slim Sweet]

You can definitely compare Tarver beating Roy to Buster beating Tyson. For me, no two moments in my boxing lifetime compare as far as that all out HOLY SHIT.

Outside of those two moments however, Tarver's career definitely outshines Buster's. Douglas really didn't have any other wins of note, while Tarver beat a bunch of B-B+ guys (Griffin, Harding, Glen Johnson, Reggie Johnson, Woods). Douglas truly was a one-hit wonder. Tarver has had a solid workmanlike career highlighted by one incredible moment.

[Big Slim Sweet]

And I agree Roy's face looked different - and older kinda - in that first fight with Tarver. In the rematch though I thought he looked like himself again.

[JLUVBABY]

You can definitely compare Tarver beating Roy to Buster beating Tyson. For me, no two moments in my boxing lifetime compare as far as that all out HOLY SHIT.

Outside of those two moments however, Tarver's career definitely outshines Buster's. Douglas really didn't have any other wins of note, while Tarver beat a bunch of B-B+ guys (Griffin, Harding, Glen Johnson, Reggie Johnson, Woods). Douglas truly was a one-hit wonder. Tarver has had a solid workmanlike career highlighted by one incredible moment.

if you look back at his career... tarver was the king of rematches... he usually lost the first match to most of those guys... i just dont see tarver the way he sees himself.. lol... i ant like the guy as a fighter... hard for me to give him much credit and i actually have tried to...