[King Eugene]

This is random but I didn't want to make a new thread about it and plus I seen the topic brought up in here. I linked up with an old childhood friend. He's still back in the same neighborhood selling dope, dropped out of HS, and basically didn't do shit with his life. Told him I was boxing and he should come to the gym with me. He was totally against it saying he wouldn't step foot in a boxing ring then later in the conversation proceeds to say how he had plans of whipping some dudes ass the next time he saw them. So I said, "you'd rather fight in the streets and risk death instead of coming to a gym and actually learning how to fight." He was like yep.

Long story short it was more of a pride thing. He couldn't live with being outmanned in a boxing ring and walking away knowing somebody got the better of him. His ego was too big to take an honest ass whippin and tell another man he was just better that day. I think thats the problem with some of these "big" athletes we have in America. Too much pride and dont want to risk embarrassement so they'd rather play another physical sport with less of a risk. Clearly I could be wrong because hell I played college football myself and now I box but thats just my guess.

[gravytrain]

I understand what you are saying Gravy. We actually had this same discussion about a year and a half back on the boards, not usre if you were around then. However I'm convinced that at some time a kid is gonna come through the HW division in America, it's simply too big a country for it not to happen, and that particular kid will be punching a golden ticket that is so fucken big it will make what Tiger Woods earns look like chump change.

To this day I remain convinced, and particularly with modern entertainment and the internet, that nothing lends itself to TV drama like a great HW knockin seven shades of shit out of people. If Tyson was around today he would be the biggest sports star in the world. Period. And despite it being a weak division. It wouldn't matter. That guy is ratings gold.

I wonder has the amount of money around in college sports been partially to blame for the demise of young boxing talent in America?

i don't think anyone cares as long as there's a knockout. i remember how excited people were for Tyson fights back in the day and i was pretty young when he got out of prison. i think what he did as someone that's a shell of his former self and looking for paydays speaks for itself, people just want entertainment.

i agree about someone having the potential to do it, i just see a lot of people that could have been a HW turn to football or basketball over boxing just because those were the sports they loved. i think a big part of being a pro athlete is love of the game and if it's not there you're not going to commit yourself to it when you're young. if the World Series Boxing thing takes off i could see a resurgence in boxing though, there's too much money in it. if kids in the ghetto hear about some dude making good money to fight in it and he's not much older than them there will definitely be some desire to take up the sport lol.

i don't think the NCAA killed boxing, football is just more popular. a lot more people are getting on the football field at a young age then the boxing gym. i think there's never really been any effort to get guys that didn't make it to the pros into boxing either. Deontay Wilder is a cat that played some college basketball and went all the way to the Olympics with someone like 20 amateur fights, sounds pretty good to me lol.

I can see your point, but seriously, it's a gold mine in the heavyweight division. This person doesn't even have to be 6'7 or 250. Just a talented athlete that decides to put there energy in heavy weight boxing than some other sport.

You're right about it being 2011. What would Tyson do to something like Rihanna. Make Chris Brown look like a straight up little bitch, haha.

i think it's just more of a popularity shift than anything. once the Klits are gone i do think we'll see a resurgence though. i think the big problem is that even if someone real athletic did want to get into boxing it would probably be in his 20s. i think it's hard to tell a grown man to work a job and go to the boxing gym so they can turn pro later on down the line, that and they probably don't know how many opportunities there are in boxing.

This is random but I didn't want to make a new thread about it and plus I seen the topic brought up in here. I linked up with an old childhood friend. He's still back in the same neighborhood selling dope, dropped out of HS, and basically didn't do shit with his life. Told him I was boxing and he should come to the gym with me. He was totally against it saying he wouldn't step foot in a boxing ring then later in the conversation proceeds to say how he had plans of whipping some dudes ass the next time he saw them. So I said, "you'd rather fight in the streets and risk death instead of coming to a gym and actually learning how to fight." He was like yep.

Long story short it was more of a pride thing. He couldn't live with being outmanned in a boxing ring and walking away knowing somebody got the better of him. His ego was too big to take an honest ass whippin and tell another man he was just better that day. I think thats the problem with some of these "big" athletes we have in America. Too much pride and dont want to risk embarrassement so they'd rather play another physical sport with less of a risk. Clearly I could be wrong because hell I played college football myself and now I box but thats just my guess.

i've some friends like that, they just never did sports because they didn't have the focus. i think think of a lot of cats i grew up with that could have taken their natural talent to some high level in sports whether it's d1 football or the NFL but they never had the grades and just messed around through high school. a lot of them just dropped out.

[blackbelt2003]

The bottom line is that Tyson never beat a prime A level fighter - ever.

Who has?


Wlad Klitschko hasn't (unless you acknowledge Byrd as an 'a' level fighter)
Vit Klit hasn't (Sam Peter? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )
Lennox Lewis hasn't (Tyson and Holy were past their primes)
Holyfield gets through by the skin of his teeth (if you consider out of shape Bowe an 'a' level prime fighter)

In fact, the last great heavyweight champion to beat a genuine, bonafide, 'a' level fighter in his prime was....hmmmm. Ali beating Foreman?


Unless of course your criteria for 'a' level is lesser than mine. In which case Tyson DID beat a prime 'a' level fighter in Michael Spinks.





Black

[JLUVBABY]

Who has?


Wlad Klitschko hasn't (unless you acknowledge Byrd as an 'a' level fighter)
Vit Klit hasn't (Sam Peter? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )
Lennox Lewis hasn't (Tyson and Holy were past their primes)
Holyfield gets through by the skin of his teeth (if you consider out of shape Bowe an 'a' level prime fighter)

In fact, the last great heavyweight champion to beat a genuine, bonafide, 'a' level fighter in his prime was....hmmmm. Ali beating Foreman?


Unless of course your criteria for 'a' level is lesser than mine. In which case Tyson DID beat a prime 'a' level fighter in Michael Spinks.





Black

great post... and very well said...

[STEVENSKI]

Who has?


Wlad Klitschko hasn't (unless you acknowledge Byrd as an 'a' level fighter)
Vit Klit hasn't (Sam Peter? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )
Lennox Lewis hasn't (Tyson and Holy were past their primes)
Holyfield gets through by the skin of his teeth (if you consider out of shape Bowe an 'a' level prime fighter)

In fact, the last great heavyweight champion to beat a genuine, bonafide, 'a' level fighter in his prime was....hmmmm. Ali beating Foreman?


Unless of course your criteria for 'a' level is lesser than mine. In which case Tyson DID beat a prime 'a' level fighter in Michael Spinks.





Black

Good post but I disagree completely. Unless your criteria for a A level fighter is that they must be an all time great?

I would say that if you are a genuine top contender such as Ray Mercer, Razor Ruddock, Andrew Golota were at the time they faced Lewis then they are A level opponents.

[JLUVBABY]

here is the thing.... exactly what are we calling A level opponents?... if an all time great is what it takes to be an A level comp then the 90's only had 4 guys that fit that category maybe 5 if you wish to include bowe for a short period of time... but the other 3 where lewis holyfield foreman and tyson... to say the rest where B level fighters take away from one of the golden ages of the division... there where a lot of fighters that potentially could have won a belt on any given night given the circumstances...

[salvador]

Who has?

Wlad Klitschko hasn't (unless you acknowledge Byrd as an 'a' level fighter)
Vit Klit hasn't (Sam Peter? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )
Lennox Lewis hasn't (Tyson and Holy were past their primes)
Holyfield gets through by the skin of his teeth (if you consider out of shape Bowe an 'a' level prime fighter)

In fact, the last great heavyweight champion to beat a genuine, bonafide, 'a' level fighter in his prime was....hmmmm. Ali beating Foreman?


Unless of course your criteria for 'a' level is lesser than mine. In which case Tyson DID beat a prime 'a' level fighter in Michael Spinks.

Black

I'm sorry Black, but Spinks, who started his career at 168 and spent most of it at 175 and who went into the ring against Tyson at his heaviest weight ever, 212, WAS NEVER AN A-LEVEL HW! He might have been an A-level lhw and maybe even cw, but there's no chance he could be considered a serious hw. Tyson had him so terrified during the stare down I thought he was going to cry - that is not the way A-level fighters behave. You could argue that the hw division needs to have one more division for guys 200-220 (as I don't see any 205 pound guy competing with Klits or Lewis), but Spinks was way way way too small to be a great modern hw. Which is Tyson's issue as well with Klits and Lewis.

Tyson's only A-level opponent was Holyfield who, as I stated earlier in the thread, I believe was at least as responsible for Tyson's decline as anything else. And, like I said earlier, there wasn't a single commentator at the time who thought Holyfield had a chance or who thought that Tyson had slipped much. It wasn't until after Tyson lost that suddenly prison/partying/divorce ect. was to blame. I just think the bully got bullied and his entire self perception changed.

And my point is that a prime Tyson weighed 215 pounds and his style was as an attack dog - which is great as long as guys don't have the weapons to keep him off. He wasn't nearly the pit bull with Holyfield or Lewis because those guys held their ground and didn't fold. The Klits and Lewis had the jabs to keep him off and they had the size and they had the power. And given the size difference, and given Tyson's performance against Holyfield and Lewis, and given the fact that there was a reason (whatever it was) that people in Tyson's camp chose not to fight Lewis for years, I would say that the smart money would be on Klit all day all night. (Maybe tyson wins by early ko 20-25% of the time - maybe.)

[salvador]

He's got you there salvador.

on what planet?

[blackbelt2003]

Good post but I disagree completely. Unless your criteria for a A level fighter is that they must be an all time great?

I would say that if you are a genuine top contender such as Ray Mercer, Razor Ruddock, Andrew Golota were at the time they faced Lewis then they are A level opponents.

That is the point I was trying to make.

[blackbelt2003]

I'm sorry Black, but Spinks, who started his career at 168 and spent most of it at 175 and who went into the ring against Tyson at his heaviest weight ever, 212, WAS NEVER AN A-LEVEL HW! He might have been an A-level lhw and maybe even cw, but there's no chance he could be considered a serious hw. Tyson had him so terrified during the stare down I thought he was going to cry - that is not the way A-level fighters behave. You could argue that the hw division needs to have one more division for guys 200-220 (as I don't see any 205 pound guy competing with Klits or Lewis), but Spinks was way way way too small to be a great modern hw. Which is Tyson's issue as well with Klits and Lewis.

Tyson's only A-level opponent was Holyfield who, as I stated earlier in the thread, I believe was at least as responsible for Tyson's decline as anything else. And, like I said earlier, there wasn't a single commentator at the time who thought Holyfield had a chance or who thought that Tyson had slipped much. It wasn't until after Tyson lost that suddenly prison/partying/divorce ect. was to blame. I just think the bully got bullied and his entire self perception changed.

And my point is that a prime Tyson weighed 215 pounds and his style was as an attack dog - which is great as long as guys don't have the weapons to keep him off. He wasn't nearly the pit bull with Holyfield or Lewis because those guys held their ground and didn't fold. The Klits and Lewis had the jabs to keep him off and they had the size and they had the power. And given the size difference, and given Tyson's performance against Holyfield and Lewis, and given the fact that there was a reason (whatever it was) that people in Tyson's camp chose not to fight Lewis for years, I would say that the smart money would be on Klit all day all night. (Maybe tyson wins by early ko 20-25% of the time - maybe.)

Granted, but if by that criteria Spinks doesn't get through, then who are the 'a' level prime fighters who Lewis and the other great heavyweight champs beat?



Black