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> Where is Boxing Going?, Will the new stars be crowned by default or by way of hard work?
gravytrain
post Aug 22 2011, 07:45 PM
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QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 22 2011, 07:09 PM) *
I understand that, but he's fighting his mandatories(so far) can't knock him till he ducks/vacates, thats all i'm saying


i agree with you on that one. i can speculate but i really don't know what his career will end up like. but with how things are going for him so far and the way boxing is i really wont be surprised if he's a safe road to PPV and has handpicked opponents on PPV.
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Cshel86
post Aug 22 2011, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 22 2011, 07:06 PM) *
I agree with what's being said about Alvarez should not be rushed, he has a limited amateur career and should come along slowly, but all of that gets thrown out the window when you decide to pick up one of the major world titles. That's the only problem.
When you pick up a major title, you need to pick up competition, if you want a fighter to keep learning and bringing him up slowly, don't put him in a world title fight. That's the only thing.

Yeah for him to only be 21, he has too many things going on that points him into the direction of stepping up...maybe past his level of comfort/experience. He is signed with a major promotional company that is run by one of the biggest stars in boxing, he is being promoted as being the next Oscar De La Hoya, he sells 10s of 1000s of tickets with a major fan base, and he's a champ with an exceptional fighting style. Unfortunately, he has too many good years ahead of him in boxing (as someone stated earlier), so he is gonna have to step up sometime or another...GBP cant bullshit their way through it too long. We all see what happened to the last young prospect that they prematurely crowned the "next Oscar De La Hoya". If they would've been more careful with this career early on, then he wouldn't have got his clock cleaned so soon against Maidana.
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The Ollie Reed F...
post Aug 22 2011, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (cshel86 @ Aug 22 2011, 08:58 PM) *
Yeah for him to only be 21, he has too many things going on that points him into the direction of stepping up...maybe past his level of comfort/experience. He is signed with a major promotional company that is run by one of the biggest stars in boxing, he is being promoted as being the next Oscar De La Hoya, he sells 10s of 1000s of tickets with a major fan base, and he's a champ with an exceptional fighting style. Unfortunately, he has too many good years ahead of him in boxing (as someone stated earlier), so he is gonna have to step up sometime or another...GBP cant bullshit their way through it too long. We all see what happened to the last young prospect that they prematurely crowned the "next Oscar De La Hoya". If they would've been more careful with this career early on, then he wouldn't have got his clock cleaned so soon against Maidana.




I think the difference bewteen Alvarez and say Chavez Jr is you can see with Saul there is room for improvement and he can develop, withChavez Jr you get the feeling that he's reached his peak and probably can't get much better.

That's why I'm cool with Alvarez being moved along a bit slower. I just wished they hadn't put a damn trinket around his waist. That is a target on his back that he didn't need at this stage in his career. But at the time GBP's talent pool was looking a bit shallow so they went ahead and did it anyway.

That's my take on it anyway.
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gravytrain
post Aug 22 2011, 10:14 PM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 22 2011, 09:22 PM) *
I think the difference bewteen Alvarez and say Chavez Jr is you can see with Saul there is room for improvement and he can develop, withChavez Jr you get the feeling that he's reached his peak and probably can't get much better.

That's why I'm cool with Alvarez being moved along a bit slower. I just wished they hadn't put a damn trinket around his waist. That is a target on his back that he didn't need at this stage in his career. But at the time GBP's talent pool was looking a bit shallow so they went ahead and did it anyway.

That's my take on it anyway.


they're moving him slow when it comes to opposition but his career itself is going way too fast. people talk about this guy like he's just been on BAD a couple times. he already has a title, has his own venue for a fight on Mayweather's undercard and will be headlining his own PPV within his next few fights.
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Cshel86
post Aug 22 2011, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 22 2011, 09:22 PM) *
I think the difference bewteen Alvarez and say Chavez Jr is you can see with Saul there is room for improvement and he can develop, withChavez Jr you get the feeling that he's reached his peak and probably can't get much better.

That's why I'm cool with Alvarez being moved along a bit slower. I just wished they hadn't put a damn trinket around his waist. That is a target on his back that he didn't need at this stage in his career. But at the time GBP's talent pool was looking a bit shallow so they went ahead and did it anyway.

That's my take on it anyway.

Yes he does have room to grow, but like you stated, that belt around his waist put a target on his back in the same breath. Who cares about Chavez Jr. (well I dont)...he can peak , underachieve, start a record label, or whatever his imagination whips up...I dont think ever think I'll be a fan of his. GBP's options for Alvarez were a one-way street imo. He sells too many tickets and has a crazy fan base, sort of a gift and a curse. As jacked up as boxing is, along with some of these underachieving new stars, a fighter that sells crazy tickets is almost obsolete. Im sure Oscar and Shaeffer (spell check) has plans on when to step on the gas or hit the brakes with Alvarez, since they failed the test with the guinea pig Ortiz early in his career.
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Jack 1000
post Aug 22 2011, 11:14 PM
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With Mayweather and Pacquiao likely to stay in boxing only a few more years, I think promoters should focus more on working with each other to produce the best fights based on quality of opposition, activity, and ring record. Boxing needs to stop waiting for the Superstar to fight once a year. Fans and scribes get too impatient with that and for good reason.

Work on some sort of tournament to involve the fans in each division with elimination matches. Experiment with innovations. Use the Internet and Digital Cable/Dish boxes to set up an optional polling system, getting people to tune in to a "Question of the Week" incorporated into specials building up the fighters and fights. Explain to young people how fights are scored and use this technology to allow them to score the fights at home. (Like Verses tried.) I would propose a return for some hot prospects evenly matched say, every other week or so on a commercial network. If the fighters are active and exciting, the fan-base will build. However, once a year for these fading stars at $60 a shot on PPV, is not going to draw new networks or younger fan interest.

Fighters need to fight often, against reasonably matched opposition, where there is always a hint of doubt as to who will win. In the mid 80's or so, Mike Tyson was fighting literally every other week on ESPN and some early fights on ABC sports. People subscribed to HBO in DROVES because Tyson in his prime was a dominate fighter who provided KO excitement most of the time and it drew fans to boxing, because there is was an element about Mike that neither Floyd or Manny understand, especially Floyd. And that is, you have to fight frequently and you have to be accessible to as many homes as possible. Network commercial TV does that. PPV alienates the viewer by forcing them to pay up-front for fights that may not at all be competitive. PPV also alienates the fans, forcing them to pay very expensive amounts of money for a mediocre undercard, and often terrible main event. At least in MMA, Dana Whites cards are most often more competitive top-to-bottom, than PPV boxing cards.

As PPV and premium channel rates continue to push so many people on the verge of reducing services or cutting cable TV/Satellite/or U-Verse altogether, there's going to come a time when there will no longer be a Manny and Floyd to secure multi-millions for promoters and matchmakers. At that point in time, boxing has to look more at up-and comers who might be willing to fight often, produce action , and get younger generations interested again. Get younger people involved, and some big banger KO artists, back on commercial TV that kids would like to see. Use weekly or bi-weekly stories and snibbits about the lives of the fighters, similar to HBO's 24/7 series. Don't just wait for a star to fight once a year.

It looks like Delahoya will soon be the Don King and Bob Arum of big time boxing. But it is doubtful that he will do any of the things mentioned above. What's up with the latest on Dan Rafael and HBO?

Jack
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Cshel86
post Aug 23 2011, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 23 2011, 12:14 AM) *
With Mayweather and Pacquiao likely to stay in boxing only a few more years, I think promoters should focus more on working with each other to produce the best fights based on quality of opposition, activity, and ring record. Boxing needs to stop waiting for the Superstar to fight once a year. Fans and scribes get too impatient with that and for good reason.

Work on some sort of tournament to involve the fans in each division with elimination matches. Experiment with innovations. Use the Internet and Digital Cable/Dish boxes to set up an optional polling system, getting people to tune in to a "Question of the Week" incorporated into specials building up the fighters and fights. Explain to young people how fights are scored and use this technology to allow them to score the fights at home. (Like Verses tried.) I would propose a return for some hot prospects evenly matched say, every other week or so on a commercial network. If the fighters are active and exciting, the fan-base will build. However, once a year for these fading stars at $60 a shot on PPV, is not going to draw new networks or younger fan interest.

Fighters need to fight often, against reasonably matched opposition, where there is always a hint of doubt as to who will win. In the mid 80's or so, Mike Tyson was fighting literally every other week on ESPN and some early fights on ABC sports. People subscribed to HBO in DROVES because Tyson in his prime was a dominate fighter who provided KO excitement most of the time and it drew fans to boxing, because there is was an element about Mike that neither Floyd or Manny understand, especially Floyd. And that is, you have to fight frequently and you have to be accessible to as many homes as possible. Network commercial TV does that. PPV alienates the viewer by forcing them to pay up-front for fights that may not at all be competitive. PPV also alienates the fans, forcing them to pay very expensive amounts of money for a mediocre undercard, and often terrible main event. At least in MMA, Dana Whites cards are most often more competitive top-to-bottom, than PPV boxing cards.

As PPV and premium channel rates continue to push so many people on the verge of reducing services or cutting cable TV/Satellite/or U-Verse altogether, there's going to come a time when there will no longer be a Manny and Floyd to secure multi-millions for promoters and matchmakers. At that point in time, boxing has to look more at up-and comers who might be willing to fight often, produce action , and get younger generations interested again. Get younger people involved, and some big banger KO artists, back on commercial TV that kids would like to see. Use weekly or bi-weekly stories and snibbits about the lives of the fighters, similar to HBO's 24/7 series. Don't just wait for a star to fight once a year.

It looks like Delahoya will soon be the Don King and Bob Arum of big time boxing. But it is doubtful that he will do any of the things mentioned above. What's up with the latest on Dan Rafael and HBO?

Jack

These are great suggestions, more than I would've came up with. At this point, all boxing fans can do is wait, wait, wait. Waiting for these fights, are frustrating, and it becomes more frustrating when there are only two big attractions in the sport, and the remainder of fighters just sit around and wait in the wind for a miracle to happen.
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gravytrain
post Aug 23 2011, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 23 2011, 12:14 AM) *
It looks like Delahoya will soon be the Don King and Bob Arum of big time boxing. But it is doubtful that he will do any of the things mentioned above. What's up with the latest on Dan Rafael and HBO?

Jack


DLH wont do anything like that. i do think he could put on some good fights if his stable is deep enough. i don't really see much changing in boxing though, the people running it are comfortable with how it's. Vegas gets its money from having the big fights there, HBO gets its money from PPVs and the promoter gets paid from being in deep with HBO and the MGM.
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and the NEW
post Aug 23 2011, 09:47 PM
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I'm not sure where the lack of stars are, let's remember Mayweather and Pac never became big stars until well into their careers, infact right towards the ends. This is a pretty standard pattern, Jack Dempsey didn't generate million dollar gates until his last few fights.

Guys like Donaire, Gamboa, Bam Bam Rios, Khan, Canelo and Ward could all become stars if they keep going the way they are and all of them have many years left of their primes.

Like in a game of soccer (the world game), there isn't enough ball for too many stars, the same applies to boxing. It took for the De La Hoyas and Roy Jones Jrs to go downhill/retire for Mayweather and Pac to emerge, it will take these guys to fade away for the younger generation to get the limelight.

But correct in that more behind the scenes type of things like 24/7 or fightcamp 360 can only benefit.

Ultimately though, a guy like DLH is going to have to swoop in, get most of the talent in boxing and declare a belt like 'the ring' as the only true belt, for boxing to really take off to a new level once more.
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daprofessor
post Aug 24 2011, 02:15 PM
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sad watching all the chicken littles and sheeple walk off the cliff one by one.

boxing is fine. good fights/fighters....it all happens in waves. sitting around craving the days of old....u miss all that is going on right in front of ur eyes.

it's like the song says....."these-are-the-good-times...."

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