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> Ortiz's future after the fight
Allmenjoi8
post Aug 22 2011, 08:42 PM
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If Vicious Victor Ortiz wins the fight on September 17th it will be sports biggest upsets ever. He will no doubt be the top guy for a VERY long time. Victor will make his own rules and be a money fight for anyone who wants to fight him. He could pick to fight Khan or Pac, hell even another rematch with Marcos M. His future will be in his own hands. But if he loses then what? Will his stock go down or will Khan want to fight him or Pac? Will he get the big names fights? Everyone knows that if May loses that Pac fight is down the toilet and he can just retire because no one will care to see him fight. That 0 is keeping people interested. But Ortiz is young, how will he keep people interested in seeing him fight if he loses to May?
Depending on how he loses (if he does) will determine his future. If he gives May all he can handle then people will respect him, being beaten by May is nothing to cry about. I like Victor, he has a nice story and I like his cockiness. Its appealing and sales tickets. I am pulling for MJ but I have respect for Victor, I just hope the boxing world does too after Sep 17th. Any thoughts?
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BoxingStill#1
post Aug 22 2011, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 22 2011, 10:26 PM) *
...... Mayweather isn't accustomed to punishment, and he'll quit if things get too rough.


What planet are you on dude?.... What makes you remotely think an undefeated fighter who, when he gets in deep water, turns the fight around and breaks down his opponent like no other,.... would quit?

However, Floyed is not unbeatable for sure.

I think Ortiz' future would depend on HOW this fight plays out rather than the actuall outcome.

Here are a couple examples:
1.) Floyed beats him from round 1 to finish weather by decision or knockout = Ortiz losses belt, but not much stock. In fact, even with a loss to Floyed (as expected) he is going to raise notoriety.
2.) Floyed beats him by close decsion = this would be tremendous for Ortiz. If he could lose but look good doing it, it would still put him in postion for a championship fight or the Pac/ Floyed winner.... pending his performance till that point.
3.) Ortiz win by big KO punch at any point in the fight = Sure this would be bad for Floyed's pulling power at the negotiating table, BUT IT STILL WOULDNT DERAIL A PAC FIGHT! Remember Floyed has the draw and even though half of the people tune in just to see this type of ending for him, he would pull the ultimate comeback story and could still sell the Pac fight fairly easy. Ortiz may be known as the guy who knocked out Floyed Mayweather and caused his first loss but it would equal only too Buster and Tyson type of ending.
4.) Ortiz wins by clear decision = shock to the entire boxing community and would be the best way to create stock for himself. Though this would be far stretched to the imagination, it would ultimately be what he needs to accell his star status. Floyed, the boxer out-outboxed by the slugger Ortiz... huge for him and could easily make any fight he would want I think.

In any event of a win for Ortiz, we are looking at the fighter of the year hands down and an even brighter future for the young champion.
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Eighty88Eight
post Aug 23 2011, 07:32 AM
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QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ Aug 23 2011, 12:14 AM) *
What planet are you on dude?.... What makes you remotely think an undefeated fighter who, when he gets in deep water, turns the fight around and breaks down his opponent like no other,.... would quit?

However, Floyed is not unbeatable for sure.

I think Ortiz' future would depend on HOW this fight plays out rather than the actuall outcome.

Here are a couple examples:
1.) Floyed beats him from round 1 to finish weather by decision or knockout = Ortiz losses belt, but not much stock. In fact, even with a loss to Floyed (as expected) he is going to raise notoriety.
2.) Floyed beats him by close decsion = this would be tremendous for Ortiz. If he could lose but look good doing it, it would still put him in postion for a championship fight or the Pac/ Floyed winner.... pending his performance till that point.
3.) Ortiz win by big KO punch at any point in the fight = Sure this would be bad for Floyed's pulling power at the negotiating table, BUT IT STILL WOULDNT DERAIL A PAC FIGHT! Remember Floyed has the draw and even though half of the people tune in just to see this type of ending for him, he would pull the ultimate comeback story and could still sell the Pac fight fairly easy. Ortiz may be known as the guy who knocked out Floyed Mayweather and caused his first loss but it would equal only too Buster and Tyson type of ending.
4.) Ortiz wins by clear decision = shock to the entire boxing community and would be the best way to create stock for himself. Though this would be far stretched to the imagination, it would ultimately be what he needs to accell his star status. Floyed, the boxer out-outboxed by the slugger Ortiz... huge for him and could easily make any fight he would want I think.

In any event of a win for Ortiz, we are looking at the fighter of the year hands down and an even brighter future for the young champion.


Floyd has been in deep water once in his career, against Castillo. And in the moment of truth, after his uncle beseeched him to "get the round big", he ran. Mayweather doesn't like punishment. He'll quit if he can no longer make his opponent miss.
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EAlbian
post Aug 23 2011, 11:04 AM
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QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 23 2011, 07:32 AM) *
Floyd has been in deep water once in his career, against Castillo. And in the moment of truth, after his uncle beseeched him to "get the round big", he ran. Mayweather doesn't like punishment. He'll quit if he can no longer make his opponent miss.


Floyd was hurt much worse by Corley as well as Mosley, he stayed right in the pocket and fought. Emanuel Agustus gave him a rough fight, he stayed right in there and slugged it out and stopped him. Floyd is no coward, not to say that if he had to move to survive a rough moment he wouldn't. The guy is one of the smartest fighters I've ever seen, he does what he needs to win. He's never quit, the guy broke his hand took a knee and won the fight with one hand. Obviously you need to spend a little youtube time revisiting the guys career, at least boxrec time to realize he's 42-0 with no losses, obviously he's never quit. Supposedly he tore his rotator cuff and still moved up and fought Castillo, had a bad performance and immediately rematched him.

No need to ride dick but at least give the guy his just due
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Eighty88Eight
post Aug 23 2011, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 23 2011, 12:04 PM) *
Floyd was hurt much worse by Corley as well as Mosley, he stayed right in the pocket and fought. Emanuel Agustus gave him a rough fight, he stayed right in there and slugged it out and stopped him. Floyd is no coward, not to say that if he had to move to survive a rough moment he wouldn't. The guy is one of the smartest fighters I've ever seen, he does what he needs to win. He's never quit, the guy broke his hand took a knee and won the fight with one hand. Obviously you need to spend a little youtube time revisiting the guys career, at least boxrec time to realize he's 42-0 with no losses, obviously he's never quit. Supposedly he tore his rotator cuff and still moved up and fought Castillo, had a bad performance and immediately rematched him.

No need to ride dick but at least give the guy his just due


He fought like a man against an aging Mosley, because Mosley backed off and got tired. He got physically beat up against non-punchers like Corley and Augustus, and largely invited the exchanges to show how tough he is against C grade fighters. That's not deep water. Deep water is when you're in a tough fight and can't easily swim to safety. The only evenly contested fight he was in was against Castillo, whom he ran from in the last round, then subsequently ran from in the rematch. I'm not saying Mayweather doesn't deserve enormous credit, I'm just saying people are too cocksure about his ability to win. He can lose and it won't require superhuman, steroid-filled ability.

And reread my entire post, I said I didn't think it would happen. Just one possible scenario. I expect him to win and look good doing it.

And two more points: There was never any suggestion of him breaking his hand against famoso hernandez. he got hurt, so he potshot and ran for the rest of the fight. nothing wrong with that but that's what he did.
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duwdu
post Aug 23 2011, 12:22 PM
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QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 23 2011, 01:03 PM) *
He fought like a man against an aging Mosley, because Mosley backed off and got tired. He got physically beat up against non-punchers like Corley and Augustus, and largely invited the exchanges to show how tough he is against C grade fighters. That's not deep water. Deep water is when you're in a tough fight and can't easily swim to safety. The only evenly contested fight he was in was against Castillo, whom he ran from in the last round, then subsequently ran from in the rematch. I'm not saying Mayweather doesn't deserve enormous credit, I'm just saying people are too cocksure about his ability to win. He can lose and it won't require superhuman, steroid-filled ability.

And reread my entire post, I said I didn't think it would happen. Just one possible scenario. I expect him to win and look good doing it.

And two more points: There was never any suggestion of him breaking his hand against famoso hernandez. he got hurt, so he potshot and ran for the rest of the fight. nothing wrong with that but that's what he did.

So how does this all lead you, at this stage, to associate a fighter of Floyd's pedigree with the most heinous crime in boxing - quitting? Why don't you just care to draw a decent line when you criticize an accomplished fighter?

P34c3
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Eighty88Eight
post Aug 23 2011, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE (duwdu @ Aug 23 2011, 01:22 PM) *
So how does this all lead you, at this stage, to associate a fighter of Floyd's pedigree with the most heinous crime in boxing - quitting? Why don't you just care to draw a decent line when you criticize an accomplished fighter?

P34c3


Why are you feigning incredulity? I'm only taking Floyd's own comments at face value. He doesn't want to take punishment. One scenario on September 17 is that he can no longer move and dance like he use to, and if he finds himself on the deck a couple times, takes big shots consistently, and is forced to stand and bang with Ortiz, you think his 100 million dollar ass is gonna stick it out and try to win? He might not pull a Duran, but he'll seek to preserve his brain before trying to win a slugging match against a 24 year old.

Having said that, I think his conditioning is too good and I don't think Ortiz' punches are going to be anything he can't physically handle. At worst this will be Jones-Tarver I.

This post has been edited by Eighty88Eight: Aug 23 2011, 12:53 PM
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- Allmenjoi8   Ortiz's future after the fight   Aug 22 2011, 08:42 PM
- - AussieLad   I thought facing Floyd was a pretty foolish move f...   Aug 22 2011, 08:52 PM
- - Eighty88Eight   It will not be the biggest upset in sports ever. I...   Aug 22 2011, 09:26 PM
- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   I think Victor will have a chance to go away and w...   Aug 22 2011, 09:33 PM
- - Fitz   QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Aug 23 2011, 11:42 AM...   Aug 22 2011, 10:21 PM
- - cshel86   He can be the 3rd "man to beat" at Welte...   Aug 22 2011, 10:23 PM
- - BoxingStill#1   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 22 2011, 10:26...   Aug 22 2011, 11:14 PM
|- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ Aug 23 2011, 12:14...   Aug 23 2011, 07:32 AM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 23 2011, 07:32...   Aug 23 2011, 11:04 AM
||- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 23 2011, 12:04 PM) F...   Aug 23 2011, 12:03 PM
||- - EAlbian   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 23 2011, 12:03...   Aug 23 2011, 12:15 PM
|||- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 23 2011, 01:15 PM) W...   Aug 23 2011, 12:37 PM
|||- - duwdu   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 23 2011, 01:37...   Aug 23 2011, 12:53 PM
|||- - EAlbian   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 23 2011, 12:37...   Aug 23 2011, 01:24 PM
||- - duwdu   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 23 2011, 01:03...   Aug 23 2011, 12:22 PM
||- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (duwdu @ Aug 23 2011, 01:22 PM) So ...   Aug 23 2011, 12:50 PM
||- - duwdu   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 23 2011, 01:50...   Aug 23 2011, 01:15 PM
|- - duwdu   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 23 2011, 08:32...   Aug 23 2011, 11:57 AM
- - mgrover   if he won. mayweather would rematch and woop his a...   Aug 23 2011, 06:00 AM
|- - SmartyBeardo   QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 23 2011, 04:00 AM) i...   Aug 23 2011, 06:18 AM
||- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Aug 23 2011, 06:18 ...   Aug 23 2011, 06:29 AM
||- - mgrover   QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Aug 23 2011, 12:18 ...   Aug 23 2011, 09:48 AM
||- - jimmygootz   Win: Pacquiao in May '12 Loss: Maidana (finge...   Aug 23 2011, 10:46 AM
||- - EAlbian   QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 23 2011, 09:48 AM) i...   Aug 23 2011, 11:09 AM
||- - mgrover   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 23 2011, 05:09 PM) h...   Aug 23 2011, 11:18 AM
||- - EAlbian   QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 23 2011, 11:18 AM) t...   Aug 23 2011, 11:26 AM
||- - mgrover   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 23 2011, 05:26 PM) h...   Aug 23 2011, 01:23 PM
||- - EAlbian   QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 23 2011, 01:23 PM) h...   Aug 23 2011, 01:31 PM
|- - cshel86   QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 23 2011, 07:00 AM) i...   Aug 23 2011, 08:05 AM
- - BoxingStill#1   QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Aug 23 2011, 07:18 ...   Aug 23 2011, 06:47 AM
- - cshel86   Like I said earlier, Ortiz can only hope to not lo...   Aug 23 2011, 11:40 AM
- - cshel86   Damn yall were debating this long? Where tha hell ...   Aug 23 2011, 01:32 PM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (cshel86 @ Aug 23 2011, 01:32 PM) D...   Aug 23 2011, 01:36 PM
|- - cshel86   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 23 2011, 02:36 PM) h...   Aug 23 2011, 01:40 PM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (cshel86 @ Aug 23 2011, 01:40 PM) L...   Aug 23 2011, 01:59 PM
|- - cshel86   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 23 2011, 02:59 PM) h...   Aug 23 2011, 02:06 PM
- - Allmenjoi8   It all comes down to how Ortiz fights. If he fades...   Aug 23 2011, 05:16 PM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Aug 23 2011, 06:16 PM...   Aug 23 2011, 07:00 PM
|- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 23 2011,...   Aug 23 2011, 07:05 PM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 23 2011, 08:05...   Aug 23 2011, 07:40 PM
|- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 23 2011,...   Aug 23 2011, 08:53 PM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 23 2011, 08:53...   Aug 23 2011, 09:36 PM
|- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 23 2011,...   Aug 24 2011, 08:51 AM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 24 2011, 09:51...   Aug 24 2011, 10:39 AM
||- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 24 2011, 11:39 AM) H...   Aug 24 2011, 10:54 AM
||- - EAlbian   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 24 2011, 11:54...   Aug 24 2011, 11:31 AM
||- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 24 2011, 12:31 PM) y...   Aug 24 2011, 12:31 PM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 25 2011, 01:51...   Aug 24 2011, 04:29 PM
|- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 24 2011,...   Aug 25 2011, 12:17 PM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 25 2011, 01:17...   Aug 25 2011, 12:27 PM
||- - lloyd mayflower   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 25 2011, 06:27 PM) H...   Aug 25 2011, 12:42 PM
|||- - EAlbian   QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Aug 25 2011, 01...   Aug 25 2011, 12:50 PM
|||- - lloyd mayflower   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 25 2011, 06:50 PM) I...   Aug 25 2011, 12:54 PM
||- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 25 2011, 01:27 PM) H...   Aug 25 2011, 12:48 PM
||- - EAlbian   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 25 2011, 01:48...   Aug 25 2011, 12:56 PM
||- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 25 2011, 01:56 PM) M...   Aug 25 2011, 12:57 PM
||- - lloyd mayflower   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 25 2011, 06:56 PM) M...   Aug 25 2011, 01:09 PM
||- - EAlbian   QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Aug 25 2011, 02...   Aug 25 2011, 01:52 PM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 26 2011, 05:17...   Aug 25 2011, 04:03 PM
|- - gravytrain   QUOTE (lloyd mayflower @ Aug 25 2011, 01...   Aug 25 2011, 04:54 PM
|- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (The Ollie Reed Fan Club @ Aug 25 2011,...   Aug 25 2011, 04:54 PM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 26 2011, 09:54...   Aug 25 2011, 05:09 PM
- - Fitz   Mayweather doesn't seem to like punishment. No...   Aug 23 2011, 05:50 PM
|- - Allmenjoi8   QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 23 2011, 05:50 PM) Mayw...   Aug 23 2011, 07:15 PM
- - Mean Mister Mustard   Yeah, Ortiz is nothing like JCL. I'm not sugge...   Aug 23 2011, 08:03 PM
- - sduck   Berto has virtually NO defense; Ortiz couldn't...   Aug 23 2011, 09:36 PM
- - SmartyBeardo   QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 23 2011, 04:00 AM) i...   Aug 23 2011, 11:00 PM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Aug 24 2011, 05:00 ...   Aug 24 2011, 05:40 AM
|- - SmartyBeardo   QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 24 2011, 03:40 AM) l...   Aug 24 2011, 08:54 AM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Aug 24 2011, 02:54 ...   Aug 24 2011, 10:43 AM
|- - SmartyBeardo   QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 24 2011, 08:43 AM) C...   Aug 24 2011, 01:03 PM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (SmartyBeardo @ Aug 24 2011, 07:03 ...   Aug 24 2011, 01:45 PM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 24 2011, 02:45 PM) f...   Aug 24 2011, 02:21 PM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 24 2011, 08:21 PM) W...   Aug 24 2011, 02:44 PM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 24 2011, 03:44 PM) i...   Aug 24 2011, 02:52 PM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 24 2011, 08:52 PM) n...   Aug 24 2011, 02:56 PM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 24 2011, 03:56 PM) a...   Aug 24 2011, 03:04 PM
- - D-MARV   If Ortiz wins: Rematch If Ortiz loses: Pacquiao ...   Aug 24 2011, 06:08 AM
|- - The Ollie Reed Fan Club   QUOTE (D-MARV @ Aug 24 2011, 11:08 P...   Aug 24 2011, 06:21 AM
- - Eighty88Eight   Racism? Racoons? Wiggers? Sigh... Like the scienti...   Aug 24 2011, 10:31 AM
- - Allmenjoi8   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 24 2011, 10:31...   Aug 24 2011, 12:17 PM
|- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Aug 24 2011, 01:17 PM...   Aug 24 2011, 12:34 PM
- - Eighty88Eight   RE: Ortiz's future after the fight   Aug 24 2011, 01:22 PM
- - caneman   I figured this would help some of y'all! ...   Aug 24 2011, 01:48 PM
- - gravytrain   QUOTE (Eighty88Eight @ Aug 24 2011, 11:54...   Aug 24 2011, 01:49 PM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (gravytrain @ Aug 24 2011, 02:49 PM...   Aug 24 2011, 02:15 PM
- - Eighty88Eight   Well, as scientists say, we're ALL nuthuggers....   Aug 24 2011, 03:00 PM
- - mgrover   can't really complain with science.   Aug 24 2011, 03:02 PM
- - mgrover   I don't want to argue this for another few pag...   Aug 24 2011, 03:05 PM
- - Eighty88Eight   you two should shut up and have sex already   Aug 24 2011, 04:28 PM
- - Allmenjoi8   I really feel bad for Ortiz, the thread I made for...   Aug 24 2011, 05:47 PM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Aug 24 2011, 06:47 PM...   Aug 24 2011, 06:06 PM
|- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (Allmenjoi8 @ Aug 24 2011, 06:47 PM...   Aug 25 2011, 12:19 PM
- - caneman   QUOTE (EAlbian @ Aug 24 2011, 06:06 PM) I...   Aug 24 2011, 06:09 PM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (caneman @ Aug 24 2011, 07:09 PM) I...   Aug 25 2011, 10:19 AM
- - caneman   lolzzzzzzzzz http://www.tmz.com/2011/08/24/floyd...   Aug 25 2011, 12:38 PM
|- - EAlbian   QUOTE (caneman @ Aug 25 2011, 01:38 PM) l...   Aug 25 2011, 12:44 PM
|- - lloyd mayflower   QUOTE (caneman @ Aug 25 2011, 06:38 PM) l...   Aug 25 2011, 12:53 PM
|- - Eighty88Eight   QUOTE (caneman @ Aug 25 2011, 01:38 PM) l...   Aug 25 2011, 12:56 PM
- - lloyd mayflower   Suppose if Ortiz can get his shot after his epic b...   Aug 25 2011, 02:03 PM
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