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> I Will No Longer Acknowledge a '0', Have at it...
gravytrain
post Aug 31 2011, 10:19 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 31 2011, 06:31 PM) *
berto/hernandez = dlh/charpentier

absolutely. any fighter that gets to the top is a product of careful matchmaking. these things don't happen by accident.


Berto's career = DLH/Charpentier

if you don't think any of them have had tough fights i've my doubts as to if you actually follow boxing or not. i don't think they'd JCC or Whitaker like opponents but Mayweather and Pac did have some nice fights below 140. DLH just continued it up through the classes and his career. and he's the last PPV star to do it. what i really don't see is how Arum is solely responsible for careful matchmaking in boxing when GBP/Mayweather have done the same or worse.
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JLUVBABY
post Sep 1 2011, 08:32 AM
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QUOTE (cshel86 @ Aug 31 2011, 09:47 AM) *
Being "undefeated" nowadays is no longer an effective promotional device (in my opinion). There is only one flashy undefeated guy out there, and we know who he is. He effectively used it for promotional purposes, but this is the LAST time, and I repeat, the LAST time I want to hear a fighter bragging about being undefeated, especially if:
1. You dont have enough personality to save your life or keep me awake while watching your interviews (or lack there of)
2. You cant put asses in seats (other than your family members, training team, and entourage)
3. Your ring appeal is sub-par or I know for a fact that I will have to be drunk in order to sit through one of your fights
4. You feel that the world owes you something because you're undefeated

When I hear about a young "undefeated" prospect, I find it hard to hold down breakfast, lunch, and dinner. The only undefeated fighters that I care about are the ones who dont care about losing their '0'.

Thoughts?


i could be wrong but the "0" has never mattered... promoters use that "0" to build fighters and to TRY to make them into pay per view attractions etc... true boxingfans know who is who and of what goods... gatti didnt have an "0"... hoya lost his "0"... the list goes on and on... but those two just to name a couple where very solid fight attractions... the "0" dont mean jack at the end of the day if nobody wants to watch you fight...
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blackbelt2003
post Sep 1 2011, 10:25 AM
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Some fighters like Calzaghe and Bradley have based their whole career around the '0'. Their actual achievements are pretty slim on the ground compared to the reps they built on the back of those '0's.



Generally, the '0' will be seen through, but sometimes we carried away with a big, fat '0' and forget everything else. I'd much rather a nice '1' or '2' on the end of a record and plenty of substance hidden in the '40' or '50' at the start of it.



Black
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streetlion1
post Sep 1 2011, 10:43 AM
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DLH fought much tougher fights than Mayweather and Pacquiao....enough said.
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daprofessor
post Sep 1 2011, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE (Fitz @ Aug 31 2011, 10:10 PM) *
Plural. Fighter's. We were talking about him taking more risks than Mayweather and Pacquiao with the fights he took. I just said that not even a 1/4 of the fight doesn't sum up his career.


i don't know that i totally agree with that. what was the biggest risk oscar took?
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daprofessor
post Sep 1 2011, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE (gravytrain @ Aug 31 2011, 11:19 PM) *
Berto's career = DLH/Charpentier

if you don't think any of them have had tough fights i've my doubts as to if you actually follow boxing or not. i don't think they'd JCC or Whitaker like opponents but Mayweather and Pac did have some nice fights below 140. DLH just continued it up through the classes and his career. and he's the last PPV star to do it. what i really don't see is how Arum is solely responsible for careful matchmaking in boxing when GBP/Mayweather have done the same or worse.


i never said they didn't have tough fights. there's no such thing as an easy fight imo.

gbp/mayweather were built by arum and his matchmakers. they would not be where they are without them. neither gbp nor mayweather has built anyone (as promoters) close to the level of success that they both had with arum. if u can't understand this...i can't make u.

jcc was past his best when oscar fought him. i thought whitaker beat him. berto isn't on the level of dlh, pac or mayweather. ppv is bad for boxing...so being a ppv star really means absolutely nothing to me. but since u brought it up....berto isn't a ppv star, so he shouldn't be held to the same standard as dlh or floyd. someone in this thread said haymon's fighters are boring....but i'll just point out that berto/ortiz is fight of the year so far in my book. and let's not forget williams/martinez 1 was a candidate for fight of the year. williams/martinez 2 was ko of the year. arreolla, another haymon fighter, has been in some pretty exciting scraps himself.
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jlupi
post Sep 1 2011, 01:39 PM
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i don't like that clown bullshit in MMA, they can have a hundred losses if they want, but this is boxing. Be the best in every fight you fight in, dummy. It's not ok to lose. >>>>>


the mma "bullshit" is more reality based. Anyone can have a bad day. If your matched correctly (by my standards) their would be few if any undefeated fighters probably inc FMJ. And that would not take away from his or any boxers greatness. In fact it would add to it if they were matched tough every time out.

That's not going to happen and thats why boxings days are looking more numbeed every year.
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gravytrain
post Sep 1 2011, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Sep 1 2011, 01:49 PM) *
i never said they didn't have tough fights. there's no such thing as an easy fight imo.

gbp/mayweather were built by arum and his matchmakers. they would not be where they are without them. neither gbp nor mayweather has built anyone (as promoters) close to the level of success that they both had with arum. if u can't understand this...i can't make u.

jcc was past his best when oscar fought him. i thought whitaker beat him. berto isn't on the level of dlh, pac or mayweather. ppv is bad for boxing...so being a ppv star really means absolutely nothing to me. but since u brought it up....berto isn't a ppv star, so he shouldn't be held to the same standard as dlh or floyd. someone in this thread said haymon's fighters are boring....but i'll just point out that berto/ortiz is fight of the year so far in my book. and let's not forget williams/martinez 1 was a candidate for fight of the year. williams/martinez 2 was ko of the year. arreolla, another haymon fighter, has been in some pretty exciting scraps himself.


how did Arum build DLH? he could have been a star with anyone. Arum probably just gave him a duffel bag with more money than what King wanted to offer him. it's not like he didn't come into boxing an Olympic gold medalist and being one of the most marketable fighters of the last 30 years. DLH was more successful with his own company too, he got more PPV buys and more PPV revenue. he'd less PPVs on his own too.

i brought up Berto to show safe matchmaking. DLH has bigger names than Pac and Mayweather on his resume and that's throughout his career. the whole point is that Mayweather and Pac take easier fights than other PPV fighters and DLH was the last one to consistently take on the top opposition. there's a big difference between winning fights and being a product of careful matchmaking too.
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daprofessor
post Sep 2 2011, 01:29 PM
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the funny thing is how dismissive fans are of a '0'....they've probably never fought a day in their lives. even as an amateur...against a bunch of 'nobodies' it's extremely difficult to remain undefeated. truth is...THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN EASY FIGHT. it takes extreme focus and dedication to stay on top...and undefeated...even against 2nd rate opponents.

that '0' has much more meaning to ppl who truly know how difficult it is to hold on to it. the ones that have it strive for excellence and have a burning desire to want to be nothing but the best. there are no parades for second best.
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daprofessor
post Sep 2 2011, 01:34 PM
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QUOTE (gravytrain @ Sep 1 2011, 05:14 PM) *
how did Arum build DLH? he could have been a star with anyone. Arum probably just gave him a duffel bag with more money than what King wanted to offer him. it's not like he didn't come into boxing an Olympic gold medalist and being one of the most marketable fighters of the last 30 years. DLH was more successful with his own company too, he got more PPV buys and more PPV revenue. he'd less PPVs on his own too.

i brought up Berto to show safe matchmaking. DLH has bigger names than Pac and Mayweather on his resume and that's throughout his career. the whole point is that Mayweather and Pac take easier fights than other PPV fighters and DLH was the last one to consistently take on the top opposition. there's a big difference between winning fights and being a product of careful matchmaking too.


oscar's resume is filled with big names that were past their primes and above their best weight classes. for the most part....like i said before he did a great job of beating the guys they put in front of him...but he was favored to beat those guys. meaning...they picked the opponents because they knew he had the advantages and tools to beat them. when he stepped up the comp...he usually lost. great career...but he never won the big one.

ppv buys are a great measure of popularity....and a good way for fighters and promoters to make money but they are not a true measure of a fighters greatness in the ring. the only thing that u can measure a fighters greatness in the ring with are "W's"

This post has been edited by daprofessor: Sep 2 2011, 04:45 PM
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