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> The Numbers Don't Lie, Examining Pacquiao's Meteoric Rise
caneman
post Nov 4 2011, 06:30 PM
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Max did do a good job with his info but I don't see where he brought his power up really and if(what was it you said 57% KO rate)you compare that to 122,126 and 130, you will find his KO/TKO rate was much higher. If DLH didn't call Pac out, we might not have seen him go up so much in weight.

The fact is(ask FMJ if you don't believe me), if you wanted your biggest payday, you go after/fight DLH. Just like it wouldn't surprise me if there is still more $$$ in a DLH comeback fight vs either guy especially on Cinco de Mayo then FMJ vs Pac. Although Pac and FMJ have got a lot more fans since the DLH fight.

Another thing is FMJ never was a serious power puncher or 1 punch fighter yet he has AMAZING SKILLS! The only other thing I can say is Pacman has improved a great deal since 2008 with better rthand, footwork and combination...better head movement and more angles. Does that mean Pac beats FMJ? HELL NO. Chances are FMJ beats him in any matter it takes to do so. Do I think FMJ should get a pass or automatic win? NO! The only thing is OSDT IS 24/7 365 days a year and 8 weeks doesn't mean shit.

This post has been edited by caneman: Nov 4 2011, 06:31 PM
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thehype
post Nov 4 2011, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE (caneman @ Nov 4 2011, 05:55 PM) *
LOLZ! When he fought JMM the night of the fight he was 139 and Diainz he was 142 and now is normally under 147. But you win, Pacman is snoring and shooting roids! And smoking them the 2nd Saturday of every month! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


Not EVERY month. You have to cycle on and off that stuff.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

As for not seeing the difference in power, I think the proof is on the faces of everyone he fights. I don't remember Marco Antonio Barrera or Oscar Larios looking quite as busted up as De La Hoya, Cotto, Margarito or even Mosley. In fact, out of ALL the opponents they've faced, I don't remember any of those guys looking quite as busted up as they did against THE Pacquiao. Truly amazing.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dntknw.gif)
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caneman
post Nov 4 2011, 06:39 PM
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QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 4 2011, 06:31 PM) *
Not EVERY month. You have to cycle on and off that stuff.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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caneman
post Nov 4 2011, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (thehype @ Nov 4 2011, 06:31 PM) *
Not EVERY month. You have to cycle on and off that stuff.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

As for not seeing the difference in power, I think the proof is on the faces of everyone he fights. I don't remember Marco Antonio Barrera or Oscar Larios looking quite as busted up as De La Hoya, Cotto, Margarito or even Mosley. In fact, out of ALL the opponents they've faced, I don't remember any of those guys looking quite as busted up as they did against THE Pacquiao. Truly amazing.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dntknw.gif)



OK but I also don't think ANY OF THOSE GUYS got hit that many times either. Personally I think that's the difference, how many times they got hit by solid punches.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dntknw.gif)
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MaxPayne
post Nov 4 2011, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE (caneman @ Nov 4 2011, 07:48 PM) *
OK but I also don't think ANY OF THOSE GUYS got hit that many times either. Personally I think that's the difference, how many times they got hit by solid punches.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dntknw.gif)


So let's think about this.

Your implication is that defensively, these guys at light welterweight and above aren't quick enough to evade Pacquiao's punches. However, that would be as a result of them having greater mass in their bodies. This in turn implies that they have greater punch resilience than the guys at the lower weights. It takes a greater overall force to inflict damage, due to the greater mass that bigger guys carry.

There is no historical precedent for the way Pacquiao has hurt guys who are naturally bigger than him and have been at those larger weights for years.

When Roy Jones Jr. jumped up to Heavyweight to fight John Ruiz, Ruiz walked through all of Jones' punches. Jones could not hurt him at all. Watch the fight again and even take a close look at Ruiz's face after the fight, even though Jones was peppering him with all kinds of shots.

When Jack Johnson fought Jess Willard, sure, he landed at will and won 26 consecutive rounds, but got outlasted by Willard, who was a bigger guy and could take all the power in Jack's punches and still keep coming forward.

When Floyd went up to lightweight, both of his fights against Castillo were competitive simply because Floyd was unable to hurt Castillo at all. He landed on so many accurate power punches, but Castillo kept walking through the blows.

I've already shown how at the lower weights, Mayweather and Pacquiao seem to have identical power. From a pure hand speed perspective, they're also very comparable. In fact, if anything, most will agree that Floyd is a hair quicker than Pacquiao.

So we have 2 guys with comparable speed and power at certain weight classes, and one has a naturally larger frame (maximum Pacquiao has ever weighed is 145.75 lbs and max Floyd has weighed is 150 lbs), and somehow, Pacquiao has more stopping power against bigger guys ?

Something simply does not add up.
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caneman
post Nov 4 2011, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Nov 4 2011, 07:51 PM) *
So let's think about this.

Your implication is that defensively, these guys at light welterweight and above aren't quick enough to evade Pacquiao's punches. However, that would be as a result of them having greater mass in their bodies. This in turn implies that they have greater punch resilience than the guys at the lower weights. It takes a greater overall force to inflict damage, due to the greater mass that bigger guys carry.

There is no historical precedent for the way Pacquiao has hurt guys who are naturally bigger than him and have been at those larger weights for years.

When Roy Jones Jr. jumped up to Heavyweight to fight John Ruiz, Ruiz walked through all of Jones' punches. Jones could not hurt him at all. Watch the fight again and even take a close look at Ruiz's face after the fight, even though Jones was peppering him with all kinds of shots.

When Jack Johnson fought Jess Willard, sure, he landed at will and won 26 consecutive rounds, but got outlasted by Willard, who was a bigger guy and could take all the power in Jack's punches and still keep coming forward.

When Floyd went up to lightweight, both of his fights against Castillo were competitive simply because Floyd was unable to hurt Castillo at all. He landed on so many accurate power punches, but Castillo kept walking through the blows.

I've already shown how at the lower weights, Mayweather and Pacquiao seem to have identical power. From a pure hand speed perspective, they're also very comparable. In fact, if anything, most will agree that Floyd is a hair quicker than Pacquiao.

So we have 2 guys with comparable speed and power at certain weight classes, and one has a naturally larger frame (maximum Pacquiao has ever weighed is 145.75 lbs and max Floyd has weighed is 150 lbs), and somehow, Pacquiao has more stopping power against bigger guys ?

Something simply does not add up.


You are trying hard and seem intelligent but fuck mass bro, what I am saying is Pacman hit these guys with everything but the kitchen sink. Pac lands more than FMJ cause he throws twice as many punches. Furthermore, FMJ is fine with boxing 12 rounds and taking less risks. Anyhow, nice writing but I see what your opinion is and you have your right to that just like I have my right to mine! lol
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xxxxxx
post Nov 4 2011, 08:40 PM
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Good stuff Max. Very interesting and informative.
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MaxPayne
post Nov 4 2011, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE (caneman @ Nov 4 2011, 09:37 PM) *
You are trying hard and seem intelligent but fuck mass bro, what I am saying is Pacman hit these guys with everything but the kitchen sink. Pac lands more than FMJ cause he throws twice as many punches. Furthermore, FMJ is fine with boxing 12 rounds and taking less risks. Anyhow, nice writing but I see what your opinion is and you have your right to that just like I have my right to mine! lol


No doubt, I should have actually pointed out that your thought helped me think further down a certain line. This entire area is just something that occurred to me today and as I started to look up the details, I just got deeper into it because it was so interesting. I just came away thinking that those who do believe that there's been some skull-duggery involved may well have a point.

Personally, the steroid controversy doesn't bother me, because the fight game is about skills. Floyd wins against Pacquiao because he matches up well with him speed wise and is simply a better boxer. At least that's my bet.
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MaxPayne
post Nov 4 2011, 08:42 PM
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QUOTE (xxxxxx @ Nov 4 2011, 09:40 PM) *
Good stuff Max. Very interesting and informative.


Thanks man, hope you enjoyed reading it !
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Hops
post Nov 4 2011, 09:20 PM
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So, based on this available info, when do you think Pacquaio started using PED's? And let's put you answer on record.
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