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> HBO@10:15PM (ET)/7:15PM (PT)-Angulo vs. Kirkland-SPOILERS 15 Mins. Later, No New Threads, Public Streams, or Discussion of Showtime Card
Cshel86
post Nov 6 2011, 10:56 AM
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Kirkland put on a great performance tonight, though they both looked sluggish as hell...Kirkland had more wits about himself and kept it as sharp as he could. I still dont see him beating Alvarez, Mayorga, or Pirog (if he decides to come down). If you're on top of your game, Angulo isn't the hardest person in the world to beat...but dammit, it takes some commitment!

Now, if Kirkland completely wants his stripes back, they should look to the likes of Cintron, Gomez, Mora, or Clottey (since he's fighting at 154 now). These may not be top level opponents, but they will test Kirkland's skill level and resistance enough to secure his case for a bigger fight. Angulo was there to be hit last night, but the fighters stated above will help to tweak Kirkland's fight game. Alvarez will put his fire out quickly, hands down.

Think about it, if Angulo could drop him that easily with a counter punch (which he isn't the best at), then what could these other guys do? Angulo fucked himself royally when he punched himself out...not sure the other guys will do that. Im sure Wolfe is preparing him for bigger challenges though.
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bnoles4life
post Nov 6 2011, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 6 2011, 10:56 AM) *
Now, if Kirkland completely wants his stripes back, they should look to the likes of Cintron, Gomez, Mora, or Clottey (since he's fighting at 154 now). These may not be top level opponents, but they will test Kirkland's skill level and resistance enough to secure his case for a bigger fight. Angulo was there to be hit last night, but the fighters stated above will help to tweak Kirkland's fight game. Alvarez will put his fire out quickly, hands down.

Think about it, if Angulo could drop him that easily with a counter punch (which he isn't the best at), then what could these other guys do? Angulo fucked himself royally when he punched himself out...not sure the other guys will do that. Im sure Wolfe is preparing him for bigger challenges though.


To quote Lee Corso, "not so fast my friend!" I could see Alvarez whippin' his ass, but in the same light, I can see him off'n Canelo's "on" switch as well. There's nothing Capt Kirk can do about that chin, except tuck it and be more careful. However, IMO, that takes away his best shot at winning...aggression. Kirk is a tough fighter and it seems his confidence is coming back, therefore, making him an even tougher "out". His aggression can be menacing. Whatever the reason you want to tab as the reason Angulo lost that fight, we hadn't see him get bullied like that before (bambi legs or not).

Clearly, Canelo is the more skilled of the two, but there's something to be said for tenacity, heart and overall, being a bad MF'r. I can tell you this, if Canelo uses the same plan he did for Gomez (rolling his shoulder and looking for the counter), he could very well be staring up at the lights. Kirkland, chinny or not, had pretty good stamina, considering the leather he threw and took.

Again, I'm not saying he would beat Canelo tomorrow, but I can tell you this: He ain't no easy win (for anyone not named Ishida).
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checkleft
post Nov 6 2011, 02:16 PM
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Put him in there with Lara, I'm amazed how much people forget about him.. but I agree, if one right hand counter does that to kirk Canelo will finish him with a couple quick counters. But that's if Canelo can take the heat early
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caneman
post Nov 6 2011, 02:57 PM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Nov 6 2011, 03:16 PM) *
Put him in there with Lara, I'm amazed how much people forget about him.. but I agree, if one right hand counter does that to kirk Canelo will finish him with a couple quick counters. But that's if Canelo can take the heat early



WAY TOO MANY sleep on Lara, that man can fight and I feel he needs to hurry up and get back into the ring and stay active. Something that too many fighters don't do these days.
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caneman
post Nov 6 2011, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Nov 6 2011, 01:04 PM) *
To quote Lee Corso, "not so fast my friend!" I could see Alvarez whippin' his ass, but in the same light, I can see him off'n Canelo's "on" switch as well. There's nothing Capt Kirk can do about that chin, except tuck it and be more careful. However, IMO, that takes away his best shot at winning...aggression. Kirk is a tough fighter and it seems his confidence is coming back, therefore, making him an even tougher "out". His aggression can be menacing. Whatever the reason you want to tab as the reason Angulo lost that fight, we hadn't see him get bullied like that before (bambi legs or not).

Clearly, Canelo is the more skilled of the two, but there's something to be said for tenacity, heart and overall, being a bad MF'r. I can tell you this, if Canelo uses the same plan he did for Gomez (rolling his shoulder and looking for the counter), he could very well be staring up at the lights. Kirkland, chinny or not, had pretty good stamina, considering the leather he threw and took.

Again, I'm not saying he would beat Canelo tomorrow, but I can tell you this: He ain't no easy win (for anyone not named Ishida).


I think too many fighter get away from a simply basic and that basic is keeping that chin tucked @ all times. If you have to walk around with a tennis ball between your chin & your chest and roll it up to your lead hand shoulder several hours per day. I believe for the most part, you have a good chin or you don't but you could have an OK chin and the fact that you keep it tucked could make it appear that your chin is better than it really is. Just saying!

This post has been edited by caneman: Nov 6 2011, 03:34 PM
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Cshel86
post Nov 6 2011, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Nov 6 2011, 12:04 PM) *
To quote Lee Corso, "not so fast my friend!" I could see Alvarez whippin' his ass, but in the same light, I can see him off'n Canelo's "on" switch as well. There's nothing Capt Kirk can do about that chin, except tuck it and be more careful. However, IMO, that takes away his best shot at winning...aggression. Kirk is a tough fighter and it seems his confidence is coming back, therefore, making him an even tougher "out". His aggression can be menacing. Whatever the reason you want to tab as the reason Angulo lost that fight, we hadn't see him get bullied like that before (bambi legs or not).

Clearly, Canelo is the more skilled of the two, but there's something to be said for tenacity, heart and overall, being a bad MF'r. I can tell you this, if Canelo uses the same plan he did for Gomez (rolling his shoulder and looking for the counter), he could very well be staring up at the lights. Kirkland, chinny or not, had pretty good stamina, considering the leather he threw and took.

Again, I'm not saying he would beat Canelo tomorrow, but I can tell you this: He ain't no easy win (for anyone not named Ishida).

Well you made it clear when you said that Kirkland wont beat Canelo tomorrow, but he wont be an easy win for Canelo either. Thats what I was under the impression that he announcers were saying...that Kirkland should scout a fight with Canelo immediately. That would be a very bad idea at the moment. He needs to find some balance between being overly aggressive and tucking that chin of his...though his defense (protecting his chin) should always be priority. Now, if Kirkland could take punches well, then I could care less about him protecting his chin, but him trying to fight those top contenders and pretty much disregarding his chin...bad idea.

As for last night's fight, those other contenders wont do what Angulo did after a knockdown. Any other fighter would've paced themselves after knocking Kirkland down or made the most of the moment (i.e. Canelo vs Gomez stoppage). Angulo messed himself up last night, then commenced to doing himself an utterly courageous life-threatening favor by hanging in there and getting beat to death. Can you blame him though? Im just saying that other fighters with experience or sense for that matter, wouldn't have let somebody as offensively dangerous as Kirkland, off the hook like that.

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Cheesey1
post Nov 6 2011, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 6 2011, 04:35 PM) *
Well you made it clear when you said that Kirkland wont beat Canelo tomorrow, but he wont be an easy win for Canelo either. Thats what I was under the impression that he announcers were saying...that Kirkland should scout a fight with Canelo immediately. That would be a very bad idea at the moment. He needs to find some balance between being overly aggressive and tucking that chin of his...though his defense (protecting his chin) should always be priority. Now, if Kirkland could take punches well, then I could care less about him protecting his chin, but him trying to fight those top contenders and pretty much disregarding his chin...bad idea.

As for last night's fight, those other contenders wont do what Angulo did after a knockdown. Any other fighter would've paced themselves after knocking Kirkland down or made the most of the moment (i.e. Canelo vs Gomez stoppage). Angulo messed himself up last night, then commenced to doing himself an utterly courageous life-threatening favor by hanging in there and getting beat to death. Can you blame him though? Im just saying that other fighters with experience or sense for that matter, wouldn't have let somebody as offensively dangerous as Kirkland, off the hook like that.

Yup.
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Jack 1000
post Nov 7 2011, 02:29 AM
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Awesome!!!! I had the first round even with those shocing traded KD's!!! 2nd round vicious and to Angulo, but all rounds to Kirkland after that. That first round was Gatti-Ward in three minutes!

I think James makes Taco Mix out of Alverez! As long as he survives early like he proved tonight!

Now the audio acoustics! That was bullshit!!

Jack
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Jack 1000
post Nov 7 2011, 06:45 AM
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QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Nov 7 2011, 01:29 AM) *
Awesome!!!! I had the first round even with those shocing traded KD's!!! 2nd round vicious and to Angulo, but all rounds to Kirkland after that. That first round was Gatti-Ward in three minutes!

I think James makes Taco Mix out of Alverez! As long as he survives early like he proved tonight!

Now the audio acoustics! That was bullshit!!

Jack


Correction. Can't give Angullo round 2, just watched it again. I will say probably all rounds went to Kirkland except for the even 10-10 round.

Jack
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bnoles4life
post Nov 7 2011, 07:50 AM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 6 2011, 03:35 PM) *
Well you made it clear when you said that Kirkland wont beat Canelo tomorrow, but he wont be an easy win for Canelo either. Thats what I was under the impression that he announcers were saying...that Kirkland should scout a fight with Canelo immediately. That would be a very bad idea at the moment. He needs to find some balance between being overly aggressive and tucking that chin of his...though his defense (protecting his chin) should always be priority. Now, if Kirkland could take punches well, then I could care less about him protecting his chin, but him trying to fight those top contenders and pretty much disregarding his chin...bad idea.

As for last night's fight, those other contenders wont do what Angulo did after a knockdown. Any other fighter would've paced themselves after knocking Kirkland down or made the most of the moment (i.e. Canelo vs Gomez stoppage). Angulo messed himself up last night, then commenced to doing himself an utterly courageous life-threatening favor by hanging in there and getting beat to death. Can you blame him though? Im just saying that other fighters with experience or sense for that matter, wouldn't have let somebody as offensively dangerous as Kirkland, off the hook like that.



I say "not tomorrow" simply b/c he needs gel more with Mann Wolfe. Clearly his affiliation w/ Mann is an excellent fit (at a minimum, better than his last group of trainers), but they need more time to improve. I think 1 or 2 more fights and bring on Saul. I tend agree w/ Jack, who likes Kirkland if he survives early. Maybe I'm a "prisoner of the moment", but I'd be really, really interested in seeing how Canelo handles a cat that can put a dent in him and will keep coming all night. If we're being honest, Alvarez isn't exactly setting the world on fire. His last 5 fights were, Alphonso Gomez (TKO6), Ryan Rhodes (TKO12), Matthew Hatton (UD12), Lovermore N'dou (UD12), Carlos Baldomir (TKO6)...lemme ask you this: which of these do you see Kirkland NOT getting out of there? (S/N: No one saw him NOT getting Ishida outta there either, huh? LOL). I'll be honest w/ you, I think this fight raises Canelo's BP a bit. Plus, if you believe Gary Shaw, no way Alvarez gets in the ring w/ Kirkland.

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