[Allmenjoi8]

The whole "demonic symbol" came from the notion that he's a devil worshipping free mason. The name Hova came from a lyric in which he said he's a God MC call me "Jay Hova". It's just a play on the word Jehovah. It was also a stab at Nas who used to call himself God Son. In NY, especially in the 90's, when you outwitted somebody or played them.. we would say you son'd them. Just because Masonry is something you don't understand, doesn't give you the right to call someone demonic.

The fact that you called Lil Wayne and excellent wordsmith speaks volumes about your idea of real "hip hop. How can you like Immortal Technique and say something like that? Lil Wayne uses 2nd grade similes and metaphors. That's clever to you?

And why do you have to be "righteous" to be a hip hop artist? And how exactly does Jay Z only spit to gain revenue? #1 Isnt that the point #2 He's given multiple sold out concerts and gave the entire proceeds to 9/11 victims. I'd say that his music does a lot more than you give him credit for. The man is the 1st rapper to grace the stage of Glastonbury; thus opening up a HUGE door for African American artists, especially rappers. Jay Z has influenced music like a modern day Run DMC...and this is coming from a guy who grew up in Hollis, Queens!

Rapping about money doesn't automatically mean your music is commercial; which is what it seems like you're trying to suggest. Listen to his Grammy Family Freestyle, which eventually became part of his song with Chris Martin called Most Kings. Not only is he speaking on the evil of money and the corporate warfare taking place right in front of our face, he's also bringing to light art that most inner city kids don't even know about. The song is based on a painting by the late great Jean Michel Basquiat. Jay Z and Swizz Beatz have been avid art collecters and often advocate schools to enlighten young kids on the importance of art in the classroom. Once again, as a said before, if you're going to judge the man, school yourself on his entirety, then hack away.

If you heard Lil Wayne before he became the fuckery he is now, he is impressive. I would no way rank him in my top 50. Immortal Tech is my guy and Chino XL and some other cats. If the only thing you rap about is money then yes you are commercial. I have not heard a Jay Z album since his Black Album and I know how Jay got his name. I did not say you had to be righteous to be a hip hop star but when the only thing you talk about is money sex, and bling it becomes nauseating. I was never a RUN DMC fan but I get where you are coming from. I would not compare Jay Z to those guy, they were innovative I don't see innovation with Jay I really don't.

Free style fellowship the cats out of the Bay Area and Los Angeles I went to a few of their cyphers and I have to say I was blown away by the rawness in their rhymes, yes they spoke about sex, the fly chic, and all that comes with being an MC but that was not the only thing that they rapped about and that is what I am saying is the problem with artist today they only speak about one subject and the shit is a bore. Jay Z from beginning to end has not changed and it sucks. When Nas came out with Nastradamus I was so pissed, because he went commercial to the core. As an artist has some fucking dignity. You did not hear Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, Herbie Mane give into the bullshit that is new age jazz. They would tell Kenny G and David Koz (my mother listen to the bs) to go straight to hell with their electric instruments.

J Dilla did not compromise. Jay Z maybe the greatest guy in the world, he may be the nicest most giving son of gun in all of NY, but he is still lame and so is his over exposed wife. This is the same guy who stuffed Biggie's style and that comment that he said about being a better MC than Biggie is a laughable. In a battle Christopher Wallace would demolish this cat.

[daprofessor]

Im done

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

u disagree?

[daprofessor]

I can careless about Jay Z being a free mason or not and what does that have to do with anything? I know all about the secret society bs, most HBCUS are flooded with masons and OEAs I could careless. What I do have a problem with is Jay Z telling crowds of people to call him Hova and throwing his sign, too close to worshiping a human for me but to each his own. And if you read what I wrote I said he touches on some social issues but it isn't his platform. An Jay Z raps way too much about money and how great he is for me but to each his own. Many rappers are excellent wordsmiths Lil Wayne is in that category and so is Em, but they too are lame. Many preachers are great wordsmith but that don't make them righteous. It is like what Roger Mayweather said "speed don't mean shit if you don't know how to use it." Or maybe that was Floyd Sr. who said that. Same goes with rappers, yeah you can spit but what does that mean if you don't use it for something other than capital? And let me school thee: Most all presidents and world leaders are masons, they meet up at this place call Bohemian Groove in Northern California. They do weird shit there. Do I think there are under workings in the music industry? Yes! So yeah I think Jay Z along with a slue of others are on some other shit that I may never understand and agree with but they are happy with their life so great.

And that media bs that you mention has a basis if it didn't you and I would not be talking about. You chose to see things one way I chose to see things another. Somewhere in between the truth lies.

one of the most stupid verses i've ever heard...."i'm che gueverra with bling on...."

they killed the wrong emcees. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by daprofessor: Apr 3 2012, 06:53 PM

[Cshel86]

Im done

See what I go through? Believe it or not, she's this dumb every day, and these debates usual lead to nothing...being the fact that she talks herself into a hole every time. It's worse than throwing a frisbee at a cross-eyed puppy and hoping for good results.

[neophyte7]

Excuse the expression--Fuck Jay Z-- Nas (ETHER)... back to boxing.

This post has been edited by neophyte7: Apr 4 2012, 07:33 AM

[Cshel86]

Excuse the expression--Fuck Jay Z-- Nas (ETHER)... back to boxing.

Thank you! No need to have this raging dumbass (Allmenjoi) throw her 2 cents in any longer, especially if it has nothing to do with boxing. When it comes to boxing, you only see her in certain threads...

[Franchize]

one of the most stupid verses i've ever heard...."i'm che gueverra with bling on...."

they killed the wrong emcees. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Ok maybe I'm not done lol Sorry, but I have to do this one last time.

Read his book. Maybe you'll understand WHY he said what he said. It's a reference to an reporter who said one minute, Jay Z is the deepest, most revolutionary rapper but at the same time, he is also flashy. It leaves his listeners confused. She said it after she saw him with a Che Gueverra tee on and his Rocafella chain. It was a stab at the reporter because Jay is basically saying why do I have to dress like Arrested Development to be considered revolutionary? It's also him saying it's OK to be confusing because it adds to the intrigue of his persona and music...hence the words "I'm complex." Dude, I grew up in and around Hip Hop throughout my life in NYC. Even underground rappers and 90s rappers who never got their just due say Jay Z is amazing. So when you throw out your "non mainstream" guys like that makes you and Allmenjoi somehow more in tune with "real hip hop" I laugh.The fact that Allmenjoi thinks Lil Wayne is a "great wordsmith" alone excludes her from the conversation lol. I grew up on groups like Onyx, Souls of Mischief, LONS. Brand Nubian, Jungle Brothers, Tribe,Native Tongues, black moon, Lost Boyz, Organized Konfusion (prince po is actually my uncle), Naughty etc. Let's get back to boxing because Hip Hop isn't your calling. You dont wanna argue this with me lol

See what I go through? Believe it or not, she's this dumb every day, and these debates usual lead to nothing...being the fact that she talks herself into a hole every time. It's worse than throwing a frisbee at a cross-eyed puppy and hoping for good results.

Yes lol I have seen the light.

[quote]If the only thing you rap about is money then yes you are commercial.quote]

Tracks 1,2,9,10,11,12,14,16 on Watch the Throne arent about money. That's half the album. Blueprint 3 was almost exclusively about the antithesis of what your saying. He took a bunch of stabs at commercial rappers and their inability to be original. American Gangster was about his life selling drugs and how it correlated with the movie.It was also about the ups and downs of drug dealing and how it isn't as glamourous as rappers (like Rick Ross) make it out to be. It isn't that he doesn't talk about other stuff. It's that you don't care to listen. You completely ignored everything I said and yet you try to prove your point. Therefore, there is no way anybody can debate with you because you ignore all facts that contrast your argument. I found one of the few women who can admit they're wrong or they may not have all the information they thought they did. And you know what....I married her. lmaoI can readily admit when I'm wrong or when someone has more information on a subject than me. Today is NOT that day. lol

BTW, just for the record, if you really compare lyrics, Nas DID NOT win the battle vs Jay Z. Everyone compares Ether to Superugly. Ether was a song Nas had months to create. Superugly was a freestyle Jay Z made the day after Ether dropped on the infamous Hot 97. If you compare the lyrics to Got Yourself a Gun by Nas and the Lyrics to Takeover OR the song Blueprint (on the blueprint 2 album), it's not even close.

Funny, yesterday I heard someone from the West Coast saying something to the tune of Dr Dre would kill Jay Z in a battle. It just illustrated the nonsensical hypocrisy and lack of knowledge surrounding the hip hop community.

[Franchize]

Can't y'all, see that he's fake, the rap version of TD Jakes
Prophesizing on your CDs and tapes
Won't break you a crumb of the little bit that he makes
And this is with whom you want to place your faith?
I put dollars on mine, ask Columbine
When the Twin Towers dropped, I was the first in line (That's real!)
Donating proceeds off every ticket sold
When I was out on the road, that's how you judge Hov, no?
Ain't I supposed to be absorbed myself?
Every time there's a tragedy, I'm the first one to help
They call me this misogynist, but they don't call me the dude
To take his dollars to give gifts at the projects
These dudes is all politics, depositing checks
They put in they pocket, all you get in return is a lot of lip (yap, yap, yap!)
And y'all buy the shit, caught up in the hype
Cause the nigga wear a kufi, it don't mean that he bright
Cause you don't understand him, it don't mean that he nice
It just means you don't understand all the bullshit that he write
Is it "Oochie Wally Wally" or is it "One Mic"?
Is it "Black Girl Lost" or shorty owe you for ice?
I've been real all my life, they confuse it with conceit
Since I will not lose, they try to help him cheat
But I will not lose, for even in defeat
There's a valuable lesson learned, so it evens up for me
When the grass is cut, the snakes will show
I gotta thank the little homie Nas for that though
Saving me the hassle of speaking to half of these assholes
And I'mma let karma catch up to Jaz-O, whoa
I'm back before you had a chance to miss me
My mama can't save you this time, n*ggas is history
Who you know flow vicious as me?
Yet so religiously, that's why they call me Hov
I get the spoils cause the victor is me (me, n*gga)
You're an actor, you're not who you're depicted to be
You're street dreamin, all y'all n*ggas living through me
I gave you life when n*ggas was forgetting you emcee
I'm a legend, you should take a picture with me
You should be happy to be in my presence, I should charge you a fee
I'm Big Dog, Glenn Rob, listen God you a flea
And the little homey Jungle is a garden to me
What's the problem B? You not as hard as me
Nigga hard as we, n*gga R O C, nigga
That's why they follow me, they feel my pain and my agony, n*gga
I won't rest till you on one knee
You want war then it's war's gonna be, n*gga
Until you on one knee, you want war then it's war's gonna be, n*gga

[Franchize]

I apologize for my ranting. I just don't like when ppl claim to be experts but don't examine the subject from every angle. I really am DONE now though lol

This post has been edited by Franchize: Apr 4 2012, 09:50 AM

[Cshel86]

Trust me Franchize, she STILL wont get it. Whenever this interview between Mayweather and Dyson takes place, I will be sure that there's another thread opened since this one has gone to shit.

When she gets caught up and called out in her posts, she just starts throwing numerous names in her posts, backed by some flimsy facts that often get countered later on in the discussion.

When all of these names are thrown into her posts, we're often trolled into these off-topic discussions to compensate for her lack of boxing knowledge and her on-going need for attention...even if she has to be constantly redirected, harassed, and degraded in order to get it.

A sad specimen she is...