[pesticid]

So Hatton's names at 140

Kostya
Urango
Vince Philips
Paulie

and Cotto's names at 140
Ndou
Corley
Bailey
Paulie

[pesticid]

Hatton was too small for 147. I maintain that, but he would have had trouble with zab and corley at 140. I don't think he's overrated but hes not top guy. He's not a pretty fighter but he is effective

It's ok to think that but Zab struggled with a limited Mathyse but oh I get it Mathyse would beat him and so will Maidana and so will Micky Ward and everybody out there yet only two fighters beat him. When I look at Mathyse and maidana I just remember the boxing shut out that Hatton pitched against Urango and I picture the same result against these two crude fighters.

Hatton's boxing was very underrated. Paulie was supposed to give hima boxing lesson, yet he didn't win a second of that fight.

[pesticid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9jk2U8FFtM...feature=related

Finally I found it Ricky hatton compilation by Gorilla Productions, enjoy!

This post has been edited by pesticid: Apr 18 2012, 09:24 PM

[Cshel86]

Hatton's resume at 140 is better than Cotto's at 140. Hatton beats down Corley, Bailey and N'Dou. They are tailor made for him. Cotto was running away from Ndou even though he broke Ndou's rib.

Tzsuy wasn't past his prime, I have no idea where you get this. You can't support this with any facts.

You list Cotto's win over Malignaggi, which was a competitive fight in which Paulie connected more than a few times and even had Cotto stumbling from a shot or was it a few times that Cotto stumbled. Yet you discredit Hatton's complete domination of Paulie. In that fight it was Paulie who clinched and held cause he was being badly outboxed and hurt. Hatton didn't need to clinch in this fight, he wasn't fighting a strong Urango. Hatton gave Malignaggi a whooping which took a lot of Paulie's confidence away. His first stoppage. He came out of the Cotto fight as a better fighter but he left as a much worse fighter after what Hatton did to him.

He moved up to fight Collazo and while he may have been awarded a gift it was a very competitive fight where Collazo came on strong late in the fight. Hatton's frame isn't build for 147, yet he went ahead with an unheralded Collazo and bullied him with his t-rex arms. Fought Mayweather at the same weight even though it's not his best weight. But back to 140, Cotto would get bulldozed by Hatton at 140. Cotto doesn't like pressure. Mosley, N'dou, Margarito and nobody brought pressure like Hatton. Hatton before the Mayweather fight tears up Cotto at 140. He had beat an elite fighter, stopped the lineal champ. Cotto never beat anybody like that. He beat a past it Mosley at 147 and that's his biggest victory to date but he doesn't beat Hatton at 140.

It's obvious that you're in favor of Hatton, regardless of what happens. Tzsyu was older but had only lost one fight, so that may be your argument as far as him not being over the hill.

If he wasn't shot (like I said), then what was he? Are you saying that Tzsyu was in his prime when he fought Hatton? If so, then we can go ahead and end the debate now. Fact is, he was only fighting once a year after 2001, which classified him as somewhat inactive, which wasn't a good thing for his age at then time.

Fighting an undefeated Paulie and a defeated one, is two different things, and doesn't give Ricky some sort of thumbs up of redemption. Some people would say that Pac's performance against Ricky's was better than Floyd's...yes AND no...that's based on a fan's preference though. One would argue that Hatton wasn't the same after being knocked out by Floyd, and some would argue that Pac would've knocked him out regardless.

You are now making excuses about Ricky not carrying the weight well at WW, so again, let's leave Cotto's WW resume out of it...especially since he's had bigger fights at WW than Hatton.

We can end it at this point that Im about to bring up, or you can continue to debate (either choice is cool with me)...whose record did them the most favors? Check it out...

Miguel Cotto: 32 wins and 2 losses...dealt with his losses and is now en route to the biggest fight of his career

Ricky Hatton: 45wins and 2 losses...dealt with his losses in a depressive coke head manner, and never returned to the ring.

I would say that Cotto had the better competition overall in his career, and has been in more wars, but still has the better career. Hatton had a padded record with two big losses and went out like a biotch...now we have to see him all fat and shit on tv nowadays.

[pesticid]

It's obvious that you're in favor of Hatton, regardless of what happens. Tzsyu was older but had only lost one fight, so that may be your argument as far as him not being over the hill.

If he wasn't shot (like I said), then what was he? Are you saying that Tzsyu was in his prime when he fought Hatton? If so, then we can go ahead and end the debate now. Fact is, he was only fighting once a year after 2001, which classified him as somewhat inactive, which wasn't a good thing for his age at then time.

Fighting an undefeated Paulie and a defeated one, is two different things, and doesn't give Ricky some sort of thumbs up of redemption. Some people would say that Pac's performance against Ricky's was better than Floyd's...yes AND no...that's based on a fan's preference though. One would argue that Hatton wasn't the same after being knocked out by Floyd, and some would argue that Pac would've knocked him out regardless.

You are now making excuses about Ricky not carrying the weight well at WW, so again, let's leave Cotto's WW resume out of it...especially since he's had bigger fights at WW than Hatton.

We can end it at this point that Im about to bring up, or you can continue to debate (either choice is cool with me)...whose record did them the most favors? Check it out...

Miguel Cotto: 32 wins and 2 losses...dealt with his losses and is now en route to the biggest fight of his career

Ricky Hatton: 45wins and 2 losses...dealt with his losses in a depressive coke head manner, and never returned to the ring.

I would say that Cotto had the better competition overall in his career, and has been in more wars, but still has the better career. Hatton had a padded record with two big losses and went out like a biotch...now we have to see him all fat and shit on tv nowadays.

Cotto has the better career overall but Hatton had a better career at 140 that's undeniable. Kostya was 35 and had I don't even know how many wins in a row. He was the favourite to win. Nobody that Cotto fought at 140 was a favourite against Cotto and Cotto faced softer opposition at 140. Cotto may continue to fight and that's cool but when shit starts heating up Cotto doesn;t have the heart that Ricky did. He would quit in a fight, running, holding, taking knees and that's ok but Ricky won't quit a fight. In the ring, Ricky had a bigger heart and a better record at 140.

Cotto destroys Hatton at WW but he gets beat at 140, maybe not destroyed but beat. He doesn't like the pressure and body shots and he wasn't that strong at 140. That's why Bob was giving him these soft touches early.

[Cshel86]

So Hatton's names at 140

Kostya - retired
Urango - Where is he?
Vince Philips - Where is he?
Paulie - still fighting

and Cotto's names at 140
Ndou- last time I checked, he was a stepping stone for Canelo in 2010
Corley - still fighting and just lost to somebody...its on the tip of my tongue
Bailey - about to fight Mike Jones in June
Paulie - still fighting..this weekend I believe

With these two list...Paulie's the only common opponent that is really doing something at this stage of his career. With that said, Cotto still fought an undefeated Paulie, so to argue that Hatton stopped him two years later isn't all that great of an argument.

struggled with a limited Mathyse

Seriously? Limited? C'mon P, I cant even get with this. Matthysse would kill Hatton.

Hatton's boxing was very underrated.

The boxing that he learned after he got beat and knocked out over a course of 10 rounds? He fought a Mexican guy after that, and looked shaky, then fought Paulie, which he showed a bit of his "newly found" boxing skill and landed some big shots, but he still showed the same lunging, mauling, overexcited Hatton that we always see.

Kostya was 35 and had I don't even know how many wins in a row. He was the favourite to win.

Still didn't answer the question...was Tzsyu in his prime when he fought Hatton?

cool but when shit starts heating up Cotto doesn;t have the heart that Ricky did. He would quit in a fight, running, holding, taking knees and that's ok but Ricky won't quit a fight.

When shit heats up, we never have to worry about Ricky running or holding...he usually runs out of shit to do and gets put to sleep. The one fight that I remember him holding and taking a knee in, is the Collazo fight.

Cotto destroys Hatton at WW but he gets beat at 140, maybe not destroyed but beat.

Alright, now I know that you're smoking something.

[checkleft]

It's ok to think that but Zab struggled with a limited Mathyse but oh I get it Mathyse would beat him and so will Maidana and so will Micky Ward and everybody out there yet only two fighters beat him. When I look at Mathyse and maidana I just remember the boxing shut out that Hatton pitched against Urango and I picture the same result against these two crude fighters.

Hatton's boxing was very underrated. Paulie was supposed to give hima boxing lesson, yet he didn't win a second of that fight.

I was feeling your argument until this post. Hatton was good in a limited 140 division in which he didn't fight threats like corley and zab. This past 140 division that was just available would have been his burial. Ortiz would have killed him Peterson could beat him as well as Alexander matthysse maidana and Khan. The only guy I see having trouble with him is maybe Bradley because he might try to exchange and slug but I still see Tim winning.

[Slumpage]

Wasn't Tzsyu at the end of his rope? I guess the better question here is, who had the better competition at 140?


C'mon Slump, PLEASE dont tell me that you're referring to Manny Pacquiao as "the man" of the division (140) when ricky fought him. If so...well, I hate to break it to ya, but Manny wasn't "the man" of the division, sorry.

No way in the world he could be the man of the division, when he only fought there once, and never fought there again. Again, I hope you're referring to Pacquiao as the man the 140 lb divsion...hopefully I read that wrong.


The counter question for this would be, who finished the round in a better fashion while on queer street, Floyd or Ricky? Last time I checked, Ricky took that "tebow knee" that wasn't rule a knockdown for some reason.

Floyd on the other hand, damn near did a Rapper's Delight dip when his knees buckled, but I dont remember him taking the "knee of refuge" like Ricky.

Yeah you did... I was referring to hatton vs tszyu, Kosta was the "man of the Div" at the time and the lineal champ, Hatton beat him. Can say that he was at the end of his career etc, but a few other fighters tried to retire him and failed, Ricky took everything he had and made him quit. My point was that at 140lb, Cotto didn't achieve anything on that level. Maybe i'm putting too much stock into that signature win for Hatton, but that win made him the Ring champ, and thus "the man". Cotto never made that distinction at 140lb to my knowledge.

Vince Phillips was the only other guy to have beaten Tszyu btw, stopped him in the 10th according to Boxrec, So Hatton having his name on his resume is impressive, regardless of what the dude is doing now, back then he was doing alright.

On the question of Kosta's "prime" status, well he did beat Sharmba Mitchell inside 3 rounds, which was about a year before floyd fought Mitchell, however there was a big period of inactivity before his fight with Hatton, so i hear your argument to some extent. I think he was def at the end of his career and not in his prime, but nowhere near shot or anything.

Manny as the man of a div?? In my opinion you have to be fighting guys at the weight limit to even be in the conversation for divisional supremacy. Manny's been making a habit of avoiding doing that lately, lol!

This post has been edited by Slumpage: Apr 19 2012, 07:07 AM

[bnoles4life]

I was feeling your argument until this post. Hatton was good in a limited 140 division in which he didn't fight threats like corley and zab. This past 140 division that was just available would have been his burial. Ortiz would have killed him Peterson could beat him as well as Alexander matthysse maidana and Khan. The only guy I see having trouble with him is maybe Bradley because he might try to exchange and slug but I still see Tim winning.

The "headbutt king" wouldn't have that much, if any, trouble w/ Hatton. Bradley, to his credit, is a tough, come forward fighter w/ good defense and inside fighting. In addition, he has pretty good stamina. Lastly, don't forget Bradley went to England and gave it to Witter, a fighter who Ricky didn't seem to have much interest in fighting.

[pesticid]

Yeah you did... I was referring to hatton vs tszyu, Kosta was the "man of the Div" at the time and the lineal champ, Hatton beat him. Can say that he was at the end of his career etc, but a few other fighters tried to retire him and failed, Ricky took everything he had and made him quit. My point was that at 140lb, Cotto didn't achieve anything on that level. Maybe i'm putting too much stock into that signature win for Hatton, but that win made him the Ring champ, and thus "the man". Cotto never made that distinction at 140lb to my knowledge.

Vince Phillips was the only other guy to have beaten Tszyu btw, stopped him in the 10th according to Boxrec, So Hatton having his name on his resume is impressive, regardless of what the dude is doing now, back then he was doing alright.

On the question of Kosta's "prime" status, well he did beat Sharmba Mitchell inside 3 rounds, which was about a year before floyd fought Mitchell, however there was a big period of inactivity before his fight with Hatton, so i hear your argument to some extent. I think he was def at the end of his career and not in his prime, but nowhere near shot or anything.

Manny as the man of a div?? In my opinion you have to be fighting guys at the weight limit to even be in the conversation for divisional supremacy. Manny's been making a habit of avoiding doing that lately, lol!

Thank you for this! Yet people are saying that he was lucky he didn't face guys like Corley and Zab, this is a joke right? He faced a guy that cut the lights out on Zab and made him quit.
I don't know if Kostya was past his prime just like I don't know if Floyd now is past his prime now. There was nothing to indicate that Kostya was past it, not the youngest but can you say right now that Floyd is past his prime? What would the argument be, he got hit by Mosley?