Replies

[daprofessor]

self managed fighters such as bhop, roy jones and floyd mayweather do not rely on matchmakers and promoters (like pac and toprank) to pick their opposition because they are special talents that are capable of doing that on their own. it's a huge part of their success.

roy had his deal with hbo....and as a result we got to see him dominate over matched opposition for years. guys i never heard of like glenn kelly or the police officer that sold the bottom of his shoes for advertisement...and guys way past their primes like pazienza who had absolutely no business at super middle. he did some amazing things against those no-hopers. then he went up in weight and fought ruiz. prior to that though...he was avoiding his mandatory opponent, antonio tarver. everyone thought tarver would be killed by roy, myself included. tarver had to fight to be the mandatory twice. he knew something we didn't. roy didn't want any part of tarver. tarver called him out at the press conference for jones/ruiz and the world was shocked. the first fight happened and roy squeaked out victory and had a ton of excuses for winning. then the rematch happened. we all remember that.

bhop has been thee master at picking his opposition. he prides himself for "doing it his way" for all of these years. he's beat some great opposition along the way too! his best wins came against guys no one thought he could beat....tarver, pavlik and more recently....pascal. the potential opponent that no one paid attention to was dawson. a lot of fans feel bhop was avoiding dawson....but many more felt it was the right thing to do because after all...he wasn't a draw and dawson lost to pascal. and he looked like crap in his fight prior to hopkins. no way dawson belongs in the ring with bhop. then came the fight at the staples center where i believed bhop faked injury to get out of an inevitable ass whoopin. that theory was proven right imo after this past weekend when bad chad put it on bhop for several rounds in a fight that was more one sided than all of his losses combined.

notice the pattern? fighter picks opponents...he shines. forced to fight an opponent...no so much.

which brings me to floyd mayweather. arguably the most brilliant fighter of his time. he was voted fighter of the year in '98 and then again in '08. that alone is a huge accomplishment. but let's be honest....since his move up from 135....he has been picking and choosing his opposition in the same fashion as rjj and bhop and he's been shining. now....he's been forced to settle for miguel cotto because he has run out of options. on the surface it would appear that he chose miguel...but the honest truth is he didn't have any other options that would pay as much. so now...he's forced into this match that he chose to avoid when he retired after the hatton fight. will the pattern repeat? i think so.

i am now going on record....cotto is going to be the first fighter to beat floyd.

(then next month...when pac faces bradley...he's also going to lose. that doesn't apply here because pac isn't self managed. ) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by daprofessor: May 1 2012, 08:32 PM

[mitukczuk]

Cant say I agree with you Professor. RJJ maybe...but B-Hop ? Floyd out of opposition ? Floyd being FORCED into fighting Cotto? I don't think so. He knows what hes doing.

Don't over-hype Cotto.

This post has been edited by mitukczuk: May 2 2012, 08:16 AM

[Cshel86]

Cant say I agree with you Professor. RJJ maybe...but B-Hop ? Floyd out of opposition ? Floyd being FORCED into fighting Cotto? I don't think so. He knows what hes doing.

Don't over-hype Cotto.

Im about 50/50 with this post, check it out...

Mayweather WAS out of opponents at the time that he signed for this fight, simply because everyone else was tied up. Cotto was coming off of the "biggest win of his career", so Im sure Floyd struck the iron while it was hot.

Honestly, I will make this statement, and Im sure someone can vouch for the fact that Floyd knew he was fighting Cotto months before we even knew about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) True statement...

He picked him after that "big victory", unlike Manny, who picked him after a war with Clottey, a not so impressive TKO over Jennings, and months before that...a nasty beatdown at the hands Plasterito. In the present case, Cotto was picked after a decent string of wins, and a BIG revenge fight...same happened when he picked Ortiz.

So, Floyd was forced into a "money fight" with Cotto, who everybody remembers recently beating Margarito. I agree that Floyd's been on pins and needles promoting this fight because he cant completely sell Miguel short, due to the past beatings that he took, ESPECIALLY at the hands of the guy that people are pissing about him fighting (MP).

So again, I agree with the fact that he was out of "marketable opposition" at the time, and he KNEW what he was doing when he picked Cotto, but let's not sell Miguel short either. As we all know, the greats will go down at some point of their career, and an "already overlooked Cotto" may be the one to pull it off. Who knows though...

[mitukczuk]

Im about 50/50 with this post, check it out...

Mayweather WAS out of opponents at the time that he signed for this fight, simply because everyone else was tied up. Cotto was coming off of the "biggest win of his career", so Im sure Floyd struck the iron while it was hot.

Honestly, I will make this statement, and Im sure someone can vouch for the fact that Floyd knew he was fighting Cotto months before we even knew about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) True statement...

He picked him after that "big victory", unlike Manny, who picked him after a war with Clottey, a not so impressive TKO over Jennings, and months before that...a nasty beatdown at the hands Plasterito. In the present case, Cotto was picked after a decent string of wins, and a BIG revenge fight...same happened when he picked Ortiz.

So, Floyd was forced into a "money fight" with Cotto, who everybody remembers recently beating Margarito. I agree that Floyd's been on pins and needles promoting this fight because he cant completely sell Miguel short, due to the past beatings that he took, ESPECIALLY at the hands of the guy that people are pissing about him fighting (MP).

So again, I agree with the fact that he was out of "marketable opposition" at the time, and he KNEW what he was doing when he picked Cotto, but let's not sell Miguel short either. As we all know, the greats will go down at some point of their career, and an "already overlooked Cotto" may be the one to pull it off. Who knows though...

You got some valid points. I am sure Floyd knew hes going to fight Cotto months before us. Also, I can agree on the fact that Floyd is running out of opponents but on the other hand, can you blame him? He beat almost every marketable fighter of his era (I am not talking about Pacquiao- I don't care) plus it is partially a fault of all the fighters not knowing how to make themselves viable for a shot and hoping that everything will fall into their lap -> Khan bs. Floyd is about money, if you don't make numbers, well..gtfo. Of course there are fighters that he should have fought or should fight, but again...EVERY fighter has this situation going. I am sure as hell you would find a name that's missing on Ali's resume, or on SRL's.

You know where I stand in this whole Mayweather/Cotto discussion. I can't wait to already see the result of this fight and finally have a meaningful conversation about it. I am tired of theory-crafting surrounding this fight. Just don't over-hype and overtheorize, guys. We will soon know what's what.

[Cshel86]

You got some valid points. I am sure Floyd knew hes going to fight Cotto months before us. Also, I can agree on the fact that Floyd is running out of opponents but on the other hand, can you blame him? He beat almost every marketable fighter of his era (I am not talking about Pacquiao- I don't care) plus it is partially a fault of all the fighters not knowing how to make themselves viable for a shot and hoping that everything will fall into their lap -> Khan bs. Floyd is about money, if you don't make numbers, well..gtfo. Of course there are fighters that he should have fought or should fight, but again...EVERY fighter has this situation going. I am sure as hell you would find a name that's missing on Ali's resume, or on SRL's.

You know where I stand in this whole Mayweather/Cotto discussion. I can't wait to already see the result of this fight and finally have a meaningful conversation about it. I am tired of theory-crafting surrounding this fight. Just don't over-hype and overtheorize, guys. We will soon know what's what.

Again, good stuff. Some people have to realize that getting that big fight and winning it (Floyd vs Oscar), puts a fighter in a different position, especially one like Mayweather who wasn't such a huge draw before the Oscar fight. Now, beating Oscar gave him a big boost, so going back and fighting like P. Willy and few other lesser known guys back then, wouldn't have done much.

To think about it, fighting those guys before the Oscar fight may have gotten him more credit, but Im not sure if it would've pointed him in the direction of a De La Hoya fight. I certainly think that a Khan/Mayweather fight would've done some decent numbers, due to Khan's marketability, but he blew the Peterson fight.

I wouldn't say that me and Professor are over-hyping Cotto, but guys have given Cotto no chance in this fight. As boxing fans, we should know that ANY guy can be beaten on ANY given day, by ANY given fighter. Sometimes guys look at Floyd's record and what he's done in previous fights, and automatically give him the W.

It's hard to deny his skills, but that "one punch" awaits every fighter, regardless of skills and records. For the biggest upsets we've seen in boxing, all it takes is an overlooked guy with the discipline to execute a gameplan, simple as that.

The same happened with Roy when he stepped into the ring with Tarver both times. Tarver was executing in the first fight, but the second fight was an "execute or bust" affair. Roy was able to fight whoever he wanted over the years because he SO impressive in the ring and was a great trashtalker, but again, a guy like Tarver was the least bit phased by it.

The same goes for Hopkins, though I'd give him more credit for his opposition over the years, especially at MW. He wasn't supposed to pull it off against most of those guys (according to unqualified observers), but he did.

One guy that wasn't phased by his trash talk and veteran tactics, was of course Chad Dawson (the second time around). The given theory in this thread could prove correct, but we will have to see. As you saw all of the examples, they eventually led to the same result.

The only "conversation worthy" factors of this fight's results would be, either, Mayweather giving Cotto the "Gatti treatment", or Cotto pulling off the upset. Floyd is "supposed" to win this fight, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he will. The biggest topic of discussion is Cotto winning this fight.

[mitukczuk]

Again, good stuff. Some people have to realize that getting that big fight and winning it (Floyd vs Oscar), puts a fighter in a different position, especially one like Mayweather who wasn't such a huge draw before the Oscar fight. Now, beating Oscar gave him a big boost, so going back and fighting like P. Willy and few other lesser known guys back then, wouldn't have done much.

To think about it, fighting those guys before the Oscar fight may have gotten him more credit, but Im not sure if it would've pointed him in the direction of a De La Hoya fight. I certainly think that a Khan/Mayweather fight would've done some decent numbers, due to Khan's marketability, but he blew the Peterson fight.

I wouldn't say that me and Professor are over-hyping Cotto, but guys have given Cotto no chance in this fight. As boxing fans, we should know that ANY guy can be beaten on ANY given day, by ANY given fighter. Sometimes guys look at Floyd's record and what he's done in previous fights, and automatically give him the W.

It's hard to deny his skills, but that "one punch" awaits every fighter, regardless of skills and records. For the biggest upsets we've seen in boxing, all it takes is an overlooked guy with the discipline to execute a gameplan, simple as that.

The same happened with Roy when he stepped into the ring with Tarver both times. Tarver was executing in the first fight, but the second fight was an "execute or bust" affair. Roy was able to fight whoever he wanted over the years because he SO impressive in the ring and was a great trashtalker, but again, a guy like Tarver was the least bit phased by it.

The same goes for Hopkins, though I'd give him more credit for his opposition over the years, especially at MW. He wasn't supposed to pull it off against most of those guys (according to unqualified observers), but he did.

One guy that wasn't phased by his trash talk and veteran tactics, was of course Chad Dawson (the second time around). The given theory in this thread could prove correct, but we will have to see. As you saw all of the examples, they eventually led to the same result.

The only "conversation worthy" factors of this fight's results would be, either, Mayweather giving Cotto the "Gatti treatment", or Cotto pulling off the upset. Floyd is "supposed" to win this fight, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he will. The biggest topic of discussion is Cotto winning this fight.

Man, you are good!
I agree with you and I see what you mean. I am not denying any of Cotto's abilities and trust me, I have so much respect for the guy! Ali was telling to everyone that he is not going to get hit by Frazier and look at how the first fight went. One of the sweetest spots of boxing seeing him (Ali) lying on his ass. Mainly because of that I am aware of the fact that for every fighter there is a punch waiting.

My thing is, that I just really trust and believe in Floyd's skills in this fight. Seeing his latest interviews here on fighthype further strengthened my opinion on the outcome of the fight. He is in such a great mental state...you may say interviews and such things are not a viable factor based on which to judge a fighter, but to me it leaks confidence. And I like the confidence maybe the most about Floyd. And that's why I am picking him.

I don't see anyone coming even remotely close to his skill set. Of course there are fighters with tremendous talent getting beat up/KOd by lesser opposition and for that reason I got what you are saying and can't wait to see how Cotto handles it. He deserves this shot, opportunity and victory more than anyone, given what hes been through.

[daprofessor]

Man, you are good!
I agree with you and I see what you mean. I am not denying any of Cotto's abilities and trust me, I have so much respect for the guy! Ali was telling to everyone that he is not going to get hit by Frazier and look at how the first fight went. One of the sweetest spots of boxing seeing him (Ali) lying on his ass. Mainly because of that I am aware of the fact that for every fighter there is a punch waiting.

My thing is, that I just really trust and believe in Floyd's skills in this fight. Seeing his latest interviews here on fighthype further strengthened my opinion on the outcome of the fight. He is in such a great mental state...you may say interviews and such things are not a viable factor based on which to judge a fighter, but to me it leaks confidence. And I like the confidence maybe the most about Floyd. And that's why I am picking him.

I don't see anyone coming even remotely close to his skill set. Of course there are fighters with tremendous talent getting beat up/KOd by lesser opposition and for that reason I got what you are saying and can't wait to see how Cotto handles it. He deserves this shot, opportunity and victory more than anyone, given what hes been through.

it's done the opposite for me.

as a coach...i look for patterns...and changes in patterns. i saw them when jones was making excuses for his victory against tarver in the first fight. i saw them when bhop chose not to do the face off and stare down against chad. and now i'm seeing them in the form of all the respect floyd has paid to cotto prior to this match. calling him a silent killer....commenting that he is willing to die against cotto....and just totally over looking cotto and ranting about pacquaio instead of the opponent directly in front of him this saturday. sure...there's a possibility all of this means nothing. but from my perspective...it's too much to ignore.

[mitukczuk]

it's done the opposite for me.

as a coach...i look for patterns...and changes in patterns. i saw them when jones was making excuses for his victory against tarver in the first fight. i saw them when bhop chose not to do the face off and stare down against chad. and now i'm seeing them in the form of all the respect floyd has paid to cotto prior to this match. calling him a silent killer....commenting that he is willing to die against cotto....and just totally over looking cotto and ranting about pacquaio instead of the opponent directly in front of him this saturday. sure...there's a possibility all of this means nothing. but from my perspective...it's too much to ignore.

Didn't he say 'You are next Pacquiao' before the Mosley or Ortiz (Can't remember) fight too ? You really do like theorizing, huh ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) There is too much to ignore but at the same time, Floyd is too smart to over-look Cotto. I really don't know what else to say (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Let's at least agree on having different opinions until the fight actually happens, shall we?

[Cshel86]

Didn't he say 'You are next Pacquiao' before the Mosley or Ortiz (Can't remember) fight too ? You really do like theorizing, huh ?

I take it that you haven't seen the rant video yet, maybe? He was either super-frustrated with the Pacquiao situation, or he was just feeling himself...Im hoping that it's the latter.

[mitukczuk]

I take it that you haven't seen the rant video yet, maybe? He was either super-frustrated with the Pacquiao situation, or he was just feeling himself...Im hoping that it's the latter.

Did I miss anything?! Feel free to fill me in. Although I can tell you right away that I think people tend to misinterpret Floyd's lack of education and verbal skills as frustration sometimes. (Not saying you are the case)

Have I already said that I hate this theory-crafting? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Cshel86]

Did I miss anything?! Feel free to fill me in. Although I can tell you right away that I think people tend to misinterpret Floyd's lack of education and verbal skills as frustration sometimes. (Not saying you are the case)

Have I already said that I hate this theory-crafting? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Nah, I could just tell that he was frustrated with the Pacquiao questions, and I believe that this rant came at a bad time. Maybe, maybe not, but it would be cool if he just focused on Miguel in the meantime.

Anyway, this may bits and pieces from videos posted on the front page, but I wouldn't know since I haven't watched them in full. Here it is though...

[mgrover]

Nah, I could just tell that he was frustrated with the Pacquiao questions, and I believe that this rant came at a bad time. Maybe, maybe not, but it would be cool if he just focused on Miguel in the meantime.

Anyway, this may bits and pieces from videos posted on the front page, but I wouldn't know since I haven't watched them in full. Here it is though...

in the video he keeps going on about his health and his health and blatantly accusing pac of using PEDs, that's not the problem it's the fact that he thinks Pac could hurt him, whys he all of a sudden so worried about his health? Say Pac wasn't on anything and it was proved and he was steamrolling guys, wouldn't it seem Mayweather is very wary of his power, he kept going on as if he got in the ring with Pac and there was no extra testing something terrible would happen.

Maybe it's just me...

[daprofessor]

in the video he keeps going on about his health and his health and blatantly accusing pac of using PEDs, that's not the problem it's the fact that he thinks Pac could hurt him, whys he all of a sudden so worried about his health? Say Pac wasn't on anything and it was proved and he was steamrolling guys, wouldn't it seem Mayweather is very wary of his power, he kept going on as if he got in the ring with Pac and there was no extra testing something terrible would happen.

Maybe it's just me...

no, it's not just u. he probably doesn't mean it that way....but that's what it sounds like. that's why he needs a pr person. he's making pac sound like a some unbeatable beast. i don't see it that way. i think he's very beatable...even if he was on p.e.d's. i'm not as impressed as everyone else with his run when u consider all the facts.