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> mayweather vs cotto 2, are the fans interested?
daprofessor
post May 21 2012, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE (sduck @ May 21 2012, 04:55 PM) *
Scoring the fight for the judges would be different than us scoring it on TV, because you get more height and angles on TV, plus replay.

Also, most judges score for the aggressor, like Harold Lederman's unofficial scoring, because they're just lazy, and don't want to actually add up whats landing clean or not.


i get that....but i still feel the judges are incompetent.
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bnoles4life
post May 21 2012, 04:34 PM
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I wouldn't want to see it. I mean, why? What is Cotto going to do differently? On that night, he fought as well, IMO, as I've seen him in a looooooooooong time and he got buzzed and lost by a pretty significant (read: definitive) margin. What will we see differently and more importantly, what will Cotto do differently?
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Cshel86
post May 21 2012, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 21 2012, 02:38 PM) *
i often wonder if the judges are intoxicated during fights. there needs to be sobriety and vision tests given to judges prior to them scoring bouts. i believe it takes a certain level of intelligence and the ability to focus to score a fight. i don't believe most judges have the attention span or understanding necessary to score bouts. i believe that everyone is influenced by jim, larry and manny during the bouts, whether they choose to acknowledge it or not. that includes fans watching...and those sitting ringside. i can't tell u how many times i talk to fans and hear them reiterate some bullshit larry merchant spewed during a fight. i know what it is i am seeing. i don't need a talking head to spin it for me.

there are several factors that go into scoring bouts. clean punching, effective aggressiveness, defense, ring generalship...

most times...judges will score for the aggressor. i don't always agree with that...especially when the aggressor misses a lot of punches. in the case of this bout though, both guys missed plenty of punches. cotto was putting intelligent pressure on floyd and cutting the ring off effectively which ended with floyd on the ropes for the majority of the fight. both had plenty of partially blocked shots...and both landed clean ones. most of cotto's clean shots were to the body but u can't deny that he hit mayweather cleanly to the head more than any of mayweathers previous opponents. floyd landed some good head shots...but his right was partially blocked most times. his left uppercut was the one that started to land towards the end of the bout. the commentary gave cotto very little credit for anything he did. the judges and "incompetent-box" also seemed to do the same. there is no way i can justify only giving cotto two rounds. you are giving him very little credit. i would suggest turning down the volume and score with ur eyes...not ur ears or heart. i gave cotto 5 rounds. it's pointless now...but i should have done a thread where i score it round by round with explanations. it seems to be the norm where ppl just accept injustice. i'm not saying cotto won...but he clearly didn't get the scores he deserved. incompetent scoring is what's bad for the sport and turns fans away. this was not the biggest crime in the sport. bouts like cloud/campillo and lara/williams put this one to shame. watching the bout live...i scored it 8-4 for floyd. watching it a second time i scored it 7-5 for floyd.

Yeah judges dont clearly score rounds, and all of that "scoring blood" and "effective aggression" is a bunch of bullshit too. They were giving Manny rounds in his last fight for "effective aggression", but there were several rounds where he couldn't maintain that aggression because he was getting turned and countered. He was so busy trying to prove to the ref that he was headbutted (when his cut occurred), rather than fighting back.

Lederman's card are right just as often as Im right when Im in a drunken argument...hardly ever. As for Cotto winning 5 rounds, I can respectfully agree to disagree. If anything, he won 3 rounds, but to say 4 or 5 is a stretch...he just did better than most expected...which is why I feel he knocked Floyd down a peg.

The fact that Miguel was upset after the fight was a bit baffling...hopefully he was upset about the scores, because he surely cant think that he won that fight. He gave the first few rounds away, and the fact that Floyd was throwing combinations THAT early in a fight is very telling.

I agree with the body shots, but again, it's hard to look good against this guy. You can look good against Manny (as several have proven), but they aren't going to give it to you on the cards for obvious reasons. If you hit Mayweather with a punch that doesn't fold him or snap his head back (which most people's eyes are trained to see since he defends well), then 9 out of 10, they'll chalk it up as your punch being "deflected".

Im not for injustice by any stretch of the imagination, but this is boxing, so there's nothing we can do about it. Hell, Salido was beating the dog shit out of Lopez in the rematch and was about to get robbed if he didn't score the KO. If Cotto knew in his heart that he didn't get the scores that he deserved, then fine...but to walk away pouting as if you won the fight, is plain crazy.
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daprofessor
post May 21 2012, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE (bnoles4life @ May 21 2012, 05:34 PM) *
I wouldn't want to see it. I mean, why? What is Cotto going to do differently? On that night, he fought as well, IMO, as I've seen him in a looooooooooong time and he got buzzed and lost by a pretty significant (read: definitive) margin. What will we see differently and more importantly, what will Cotto do differently?


i can write a list for both floyd and cotto on what they could do differently to make the bout easier for each. bottom line...there isn't anyone else out there for floyd after pac loses to bradley. money wise....cotto will be the best option. i think bradley could give floyd some troubles...but i think cotto is better equipped than bradley.

things to consider....

i don't for one second believe floyd "let it be a tough fight to give the fans what they wanted." that's pure bullshit and a slap to cotto's face. i also believe that floyd and cotto will always make for a decent bout. i think cotto is the kind of fighter that pushes floyd to higher heights and brings the best out of him. why not make the rematch?
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daprofessor
post May 21 2012, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 21 2012, 06:43 PM) *
Yeah judges dont clearly score rounds, and all of that "scoring blood" and "effective aggression" is a bunch of bullshit too. They were giving Manny rounds in his last fight for "effective aggression", but there were several rounds where he couldn't maintain that aggression because he was getting turned and countered. He was so busy trying to prove to the ref that he was headbutted (when his cut occurred), rather than fighting back.

Lederman's card are right just as often as Im right when Im in a drunken argument...hardly ever. As for Cotto winning 5 rounds, I can respectfully agree to disagree. If anything, he won 3 rounds, but to say 4 or 5 is a stretch...he just did better than most expected...which is why I feel he knocked Floyd down a peg.

The fact that Miguel was upset after the fight was a bit baffling...hopefully he was upset about the scores, because he surely cant think that he won that fight. He gave the first few rounds away, and the fact that Floyd was throwing combinations THAT early in a fight is very telling.

I agree with the body shots, but again, it's hard to look good against this guy. You can look good against Manny (as several have proven), but they aren't going to give it to you on the cards for obvious reasons. If you hit Mayweather with a punch that doesn't fold him or snap his head back (which most people's eyes are trained to see since he defends well), then 9 out of 10, they'll chalk it up as your punch being "deflected".

Im not for injustice by any stretch of the imagination, but this is boxing, so there's nothing we can do about it. Hell, Salido was beating the dog shit out of Lopez in the rematch and was about to get robbed if he didn't score the KO. If Cotto knew in his heart that he didn't get the scores that he deserved, then fine...but to walk away pouting as if you won the fight, is plain crazy.


i totally get why he was upset. the cards didn't reflect his effort. i've never seen anyone land so many clean punches on floyd ever....and make him work so hard. floyd sr knew it would be a tough fight. so did floyd himself. again...i'm not saying floyd didn't win because i thought he did clearly. i guess we'll agree to disagree on the 5 rounds thing. i just believe that if the pac/may fight wasn't looming...those scores might have been a lot closer. i also get the feeling that bradley better put pac to sleep to get the decision on june 9th. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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bnoles4life
post May 21 2012, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 21 2012, 05:44 PM) *
i can write a list for both floyd and cotto on what they could do differently to make the bout easier for each. bottom line...there isn't anyone else out there for floyd after pac loses to bradley. money wise....cotto will be the best option. i think bradley could give floyd some troubles...but i think cotto is better equipped than bradley.

things to consider....

i don't for one second believe floyd "let it be a tough fight to give the fans what they wanted." that's pure bullshit and a slap to cotto's face. i also believe that floyd and cotto will always make for a decent bout. i think cotto is the kind of fighter that pushes floyd to higher heights and brings the best out of him. why not make the rematch?



Professor, I hear ya, but I'm interested in seeing that list of what Cotto can do to make it "easier" for him. I can understand if this was a controversial 7-5 match, but it was a pretty clear win for Floyd. Personally, I think a rematch will be more one-sided, hence, my lack of desire to see it.
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Cshel86
post May 21 2012, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (bnoles4life @ May 21 2012, 08:55 PM) *
Professor, I hear ya, but I'm interested in seeing that list of what Cotto can do to make it "easier" for him.

Oh God, did you just ask for daprofessor for a list? Really? Let's brace ourselves! More than likely, the shit will make sense (as it usually does), and Im really not interested in my opinion being swayed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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daprofessor
post May 24 2012, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE (bnoles4life @ May 21 2012, 08:55 PM) *
Professor, I hear ya, but I'm interested in seeing that list of what Cotto can do to make it "easier" for him. I can understand if this was a controversial 7-5 match, but it was a pretty clear win for Floyd. Personally, I think a rematch will be more one-sided, hence, my lack of desire to see it.


i'll just put it this way....cotto has more room for improvement than floyd does imo. meaning....cotto made plenty of mistakes. floyd made him pay for most. if cotto eliminates those mistakes....his chances of winning increase. there is a strong chance floyd was hampered by the bad hand and the cold leading into the fight. it could very well be a much easier fight for floyd...but i think the reverse will be true which is why i would like to see the rematch.

as for the list....i'll hold off on that for now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) i don't want cshels opinion to be swayed.
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mgrover
post May 24 2012, 06:26 PM
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I think cotto left upset because he lost not because he thought he won.no matter what happened no matter how hard he fought he still lost and it never feels good
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daprofessor
post May 24 2012, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ May 24 2012, 07:26 PM) *
I think cotto left upset because he lost not because he thought he won.no matter what happened no matter how hard he fought he still lost and it never feels good


he didn't complain. he didn't protest. he just gave mayweather his props and made absolutely no excuses. that's exactly why i want to see the rematch.
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