IPB  

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
> stop with the talk of nonito donaire being P4P, until he proves he's the best in his division
daprofessor
post Oct 15 2012, 06:15 PM
Post #1


Cruiserweight


Group: Members
Posts: 5,773
Joined: 20-May 11
From: killa kali
Member No.: 12,336



i've always thought p4p talk was silly and just an excuse for certain fighters to avoid others, but lately, this shit is getting ridiculous. let me put this in perspective...when a guy like floyd dominates at 130 to 135 then moves up to win straps against quality opposition in the 140, 147 and 154 weight classes...ok, i'll listen to p4p talk. when a guy like pac fights 3 of the best fighters(jmm, em, barrera) in his division a total of ten times and comes out on top...yeah, i'll listen to p4p arguments on that one too! u want to be considered p4p one of the best in boxing...prove you are the best in your division. andre ward just fought in a tournament involving all the best at 168....and when the dust settled...he was the last man standing. he has proven to be the best in his division. i don't see anyone out there that would argue otherwise.

when a guy like donaire, who i think has the potential to be something special, chooses not to acknowledge the best in his division...and hasn't really proven to be the best in his division...that's where the p4p discussion needs to end. stop!!! i think agbeko, mares, moreno and rigondeaux all have something to say on the matter. i'm not saying he has to fight all of these guys....but at least beat 1 or 2. maybe a tournament is in order for 122 as well?

what say u?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
Franchize
post Oct 17 2012, 09:51 AM
Post #2


Junior Middleweight


Group: Members
Posts: 2,077
Joined: 28-December 11
Member No.: 13,419



As soon as I saw this topic, I knew Cshel was ready it like the dog in the old cartoons "Let me at em, let me at em." lmao I used to think Shel was a lil too hard on Donaire. I dont know if it's an elephant in the room but there's definitely a sizeable four legged animal in there. As soon as I heard Roy Jones Jr, who's opinion I respect highly, going out on a limb for this guy, I had to re-evaluate my opinion about this guy. I have to give Cshel all the credit in the world for opening my eyes to this guy's legacy because really... I like Donaire. I think he's talented and I think he has a shot at making Manny Pacquiao the OTHER Filipino fighter. That being said, his last few performances have been technically subpar and sloppy. I think a lot of that has to do with Robert Garcia but still. Tighten up your craft and your resume'. You can't use that excuse of there not being any opponents anymore. Guys are out there now.

This post has been edited by Franchize: Oct 17 2012, 09:56 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cshel86
post Oct 17 2012, 10:51 AM
Post #3


"The Meanest Nice Guy"


Group: Moderators
Posts: 12,256
Joined: 11-May 11
From: Wherever Greatness is Bred
Member No.: 12,050



QUOTE (Franchize @ Oct 17 2012, 10:51 AM) *
As soon as I saw this topic, I knew Cshel was ready it like the dog in the old cartoons "Let me at em, let me at em." lmao I used to think Shel was a lil too hard on Donaire. I dont know if it's an elephant in the room but there's definitely a sizeable four legged animal in there. As soon as I heard Roy Jones Jr, who's opinion I respect highly, going out on a limb for this guy, I had to re-evaluate my opinion about this guy. I have to give Cshel all the credit in the world for opening my eyes to this guy's legacy because really... I like Donaire. I think he's talented and I think he has a shot at making Manny Pacquiao the OTHER Filipino fighter. That being said, his last few performances have been technically subpar and sloppy. I think a lot of that has to do with Robert Garcia but still. Tighten up your craft and your resume'. You can't use that excuse of there not being any opponents anymore. Guys are out there now.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Thanks. I think Im hard on Donaire because of the Donaire fans, his sense of entitlement (at times), his shitty contract, and of course HBO, who nearly worships him. As much star power potential as Donaire has, Arum could've done a better job with his image, by keeping him close to Pacquiao on bug cards...like make his fight to co-main event or something.

Instead, Bob took a chance on keeping Nonito on doubleheaders, just to nuthugged by commentators as being the next Filipino star, and sticking him in there with guys that he's supposed to look good against. That's the formula, but Donaire happened to be TOO athletic for these guys, which made them reluctant to put up a fight, and they actually made him look bad in the process.

He may have good moments against these guys, or even finished them, but one thing wont leave the mind of fans because it keeps happening...that wack Navarez (sp) that put fans to sleep, the Nishioka fight where the guy didn't really want to throw, and the Vasquez fight where Nonito was getting popped with jabs and basic shit.

He was supposed to look good in these fights, instead, he left more questions to be answered. It's been a constant reminder how Shane exposed Manny. Though Manny dropped him and embarrassed him in that moment, the results of the fight from an impartial Pacquiao fan (if they exist), showed that Manny can't put the ring off to save his life. It got worse in the JMM fight months later, where he was doing that in-and-out jumping around nonsense.

The same has happened to Donaire over the past year or so, if he can't get in there and knock you out with ease (like he's spoiled himself with doing), then he'll look bad doing it 'til the final bell, or 'til he actually stops you. Other than that, he's just able to look super-athletic, which keeps fan awake. No need to be super-athletic, if you cant create properly create openings and make your opponent look like an ass...something RJJ was great at, regardless of his questionable competition.

NOW, I had to swallow my pride after watching Rigondeaux/Marroquin, and actually admit that I see Donaire beating him, most likely by stoppage. Rigo has a nice shell that he uses to slip/avoid punches, but I guess his problems kick in when he's backing away or in the middle of his punches. Marroquin caught him with two good left hooks that rocked him in the 2nd and the 9th. Donaire has a damn near superior left hook.

Rigo doesn't waste punches, but one thing's for sure, he WILL punch your ass. Lol. That may play into Donaire's type of fight. Either that, or Rigo can make Donaire get careless by forcing him to throw, and catching him in the process. Rigo looks the more vulnerable of the two, especially against a young Marroquin who took his chances, regardless of the possible return fire. He may have taken his chances too late in that fight, but he took them. That fight is all about who catches who first.

With this in mind, I'll give Donaire the victory, if a Rigo fight is signed, but as MG mentioned, Donaire just needs tougher fights. I wont crown him the top of anything, or the undisputed ( (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ) of anything, until then. I dont see how folks can crown him P4P of anything, when he cant stay in any division for more than 9-12 months. He cant blame it on lack of competition or guys not wanting to fight him...his promoter is the blame for that. Dude wants to control everything, which ultimately makes his fighters suffer.

If anything, I was put on game, to some of Donaire's lack of P4P qualities, which has more to do with his resume, and less to do with his skill. You can have all the skill in the world, but if you cant open your opponent up to your fight, or effectively bring it to them, then you're in question. You opened my eyes to hometown trainers though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- daprofessor   stop with the talk of nonito donaire being P4P   Oct 15 2012, 06:15 PM
- - Cshel86   Class is officially in fuckin' session! Th...   Oct 15 2012, 06:19 PM
- - checkleft   This is a thread that I have made in my head a mil...   Oct 15 2012, 07:22 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Oct 15 2012, 07:22 PM)...   Oct 15 2012, 07:26 PM
- - Cshel86   The big elephant in the room is, what division has...   Oct 15 2012, 08:21 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 15 2012, 08:21 PM) T...   Oct 16 2012, 12:38 PM
- - leonthegee   Nonito has p4p talent. He doesnt have a p4p resume...   Oct 15 2012, 08:26 PM
|- - bnoles4life   QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 15 2012, 09:26 PM...   Oct 16 2012, 07:26 AM
- - Jovi   Thank you for posting this, i came on this site ho...   Oct 15 2012, 11:56 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Jovi @ Oct 15 2012, 11:56 PM) Than...   Oct 16 2012, 12:42 PM
- - Cshel86   The problem with the boxing world, is that they ar...   Oct 16 2012, 07:12 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 16 2012, 07:12 AM) T...   Oct 16 2012, 12:53 PM
- - BoxingEinstein   SMH at this post, some of you are the same people ...   Oct 16 2012, 01:39 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 02:3...   Oct 16 2012, 02:12 PM
|- - BoxingEinstein   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 16 2012, 03:12 P...   Oct 16 2012, 02:34 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 03:3...   Oct 16 2012, 03:48 PM
|- - BoxingEinstein   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 16 2012, 04:48 P...   Oct 16 2012, 06:05 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 07:0...   Oct 16 2012, 06:16 PM
|- - BoxingEinstein   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 16 2012, 07:16 P...   Oct 16 2012, 06:47 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 07:4...   Oct 16 2012, 08:30 PM
- - flazi   if you think donaire wil smoke rigondueax, you are...   Oct 16 2012, 02:08 PM
- - mgrover   maybe if he beats mares, rigon, etc etc etc but no...   Oct 16 2012, 02:59 PM
|- - BoxingEinstein   QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 16 2012, 03:59 PM) m...   Oct 16 2012, 03:24 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 04:2...   Oct 16 2012, 03:50 PM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 09:2...   Oct 16 2012, 05:47 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 16 2012, 06:47 PM) t...   Oct 16 2012, 06:09 PM
|- - BoxingEinstein   QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 16 2012, 06:47 PM) t...   Oct 16 2012, 06:30 PM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 17 2012, 12:3...   Oct 17 2012, 05:23 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 17 2012, 05:23 AM) m...   Oct 17 2012, 12:25 PM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 03:2...   Oct 16 2012, 03:37 PM
- - Cshel86   Donaire has yet to be tested himself, and he barel...   Oct 16 2012, 03:40 PM
- - Cshel86   Who has Donaire beat? Montiel? That was a nice kno...   Oct 16 2012, 08:22 PM
- - Cshel86   I may be in the minority here, but here it goes. I...   Oct 16 2012, 10:55 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 16 2012, 10:55 PM) I...   Oct 17 2012, 12:24 PM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 17 2012, 01:24 P...   Oct 17 2012, 12:33 PM
- - Franchize   As soon as I saw this topic, I knew Cshel was read...   Oct 17 2012, 09:51 AM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (Franchize @ Oct 17 2012, 10:51 AM)...   Oct 17 2012, 10:51 AM
- - daprofessor   to donaire's credit....i agree with max when h...   Oct 17 2012, 12:52 PM
- - leonthegee   If Rigo is as good as everybody thinks he is than ...   Oct 17 2012, 01:16 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 17 2012, 01:16 PM...   Oct 17 2012, 02:01 PM
|- - leonthegee   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 17 2012, 12:01 P...   Oct 17 2012, 03:43 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 17 2012, 03:43 PM...   Oct 17 2012, 04:37 PM
|- - leonthegee   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 17 2012, 02:37 P...   Oct 17 2012, 06:10 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 17 2012, 06:10 PM...   Oct 17 2012, 06:37 PM
- - daprofessor   searching the rankings...i came across this poll o...   Oct 17 2012, 02:03 PM
- - flazi   i don't think rigo can wait. he is getting up...   Oct 17 2012, 03:08 PM
- - daprofessor   so it was looking like arce was going to be next.....   Oct 23 2012, 03:36 PM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 23 2012, 04:36 P...   Oct 23 2012, 07:14 PM
- - daprofessor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Oct 23 2012, 08:14 PM)...   Oct 23 2012, 09:02 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 20th April 2014 - 10:22 AM