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> stop with the talk of nonito donaire being P4P, until he proves he's the best in his division
daprofessor
post Oct 15 2012, 06:15 PM
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i've always thought p4p talk was silly and just an excuse for certain fighters to avoid others, but lately, this shit is getting ridiculous. let me put this in perspective...when a guy like floyd dominates at 130 to 135 then moves up to win straps against quality opposition in the 140, 147 and 154 weight classes...ok, i'll listen to p4p talk. when a guy like pac fights 3 of the best fighters(jmm, em, barrera) in his division a total of ten times and comes out on top...yeah, i'll listen to p4p arguments on that one too! u want to be considered p4p one of the best in boxing...prove you are the best in your division. andre ward just fought in a tournament involving all the best at 168....and when the dust settled...he was the last man standing. he has proven to be the best in his division. i don't see anyone out there that would argue otherwise.

when a guy like donaire, who i think has the potential to be something special, chooses not to acknowledge the best in his division...and hasn't really proven to be the best in his division...that's where the p4p discussion needs to end. stop!!! i think agbeko, mares, moreno and rigondeaux all have something to say on the matter. i'm not saying he has to fight all of these guys....but at least beat 1 or 2. maybe a tournament is in order for 122 as well?

what say u?
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leonthegee
post Oct 17 2012, 01:16 PM
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If Rigo is as good as everybody thinks he is than he can wait another year. Build up his fanbase. Fight a couple more national televised fights. Make it so Nonito cant duck him. Dont be a Margarito and call out somebody than get TKOd by Daniel Santos. It would be better for Rigo in the long run. Boxing is a business first and the only way both fighters can make the money they both want to make is if Rigo makes a name for himself first. It attracts more sponsers. HBO has invested a ton in Nonito and they dont want put him in harms way for just anybody.
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daprofessor
post Oct 17 2012, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 17 2012, 01:16 PM) *
If Rigo is as good as everybody thinks he is than he can wait another year. Build up his fanbase. Fight a couple more national televised fights. Make it so Nonito cant duck him. Dont be a Margarito and call out somebody than get TKOd by Daniel Santos. It would be better for Rigo in the long run. Boxing is a business first and the only way both fighters can make the money they both want to make is if Rigo makes a name for himself first. It attracts more sponsers. HBO has invested a ton in Nonito and they dont want put him in harms way for just anybody.


i partially agree with this.

i think this is the sort of fight that produces a star. the only way that fight gets huge is if there's some kind of tournament. or if they both fight on the same card once or twice...similar to what has been done in the past. sure, it'll raise awareness...but look what happened the last time arum tried to do that with gamboa and juanma. we had the same opportunity with khan/bradley...at least in that situation...i get why bradley balked at the khan fight. here we have an opportunity to clear any doubt. donaire has 2 titles....rigondeaux has 1, mares has the other. who was the last fighter to hold all 4 titles at once? these guys have an opportunity at greatness here. the paydays are inevitable. sitting around waiting for a super fight to grow...it'll never happen. they need to make it happen. i know mares wants it. he's fighting moreno next and has expressed a huge interest in fighting donaire and rigondeaux. rigondeaux also wants it...he's the one who extended his contract with the devil to get the fight. the only one that doesn't want it is donaire.
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leonthegee
post Oct 17 2012, 03:43 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 17 2012, 12:01 PM) *
i partially agree with this.

i think this is the sort of fight that produces a star. the only way that fight gets huge is if there's some kind of tournament. or if they both fight on the same card once or twice...similar to what has been done in the past. sure, it'll raise awareness...but look what happened the last time arum tried to do that with gamboa and juanma. we had the same opportunity with khan/bradley...at least in that situation...i get why bradley balked at the khan fight. here we have an opportunity to clear any doubt. donaire has 2 titles....rigondeaux has 1, mares has the other. who was the last fighter to hold all 4 titles at once? these guys have an opportunity at greatness here. the paydays are inevitable. sitting around waiting for a super fight to grow...it'll never happen. they need to make it happen. i know mares wants it. he's fighting moreno next and has expressed a huge interest in fighting donaire and rigondeaux. rigondeaux also wants it...he's the one who extended his contract with the devil to get the fight. the only one that doesn't want it is donaire.


I believe Donaire does want it. Hes a fighter. Someone has to win and somebody has to loose. Every fighter has to excepts that thats why they fight. Otherwise theyd go get a real. Nonito took on Darch after he broke his brothers jaw. You dont get to that level being afraid of fighters. Now I do believe Arum has his own agenda. He cant afford to replace Nonito with Rigo until Rigo is ready to bring Nonito type income. We saw this with Bradley. Not only can Bradley not bring in Pacquiao income he cant even get a fight now.
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daprofessor
post Oct 17 2012, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 17 2012, 03:43 PM) *
I believe Donaire does want it. Hes a fighter. Someone has to win and somebody has to loose. Every fighter has to excepts that thats why they fight. Otherwise theyd go get a real. Nonito took on Darch after he broke his brothers jaw. You dont get to that level being afraid of fighters. Now I do believe Arum has his own agenda. He cant afford to replace Nonito with Rigo until Rigo is ready to bring Nonito type income. We saw this with Bradley. Not only can Bradley not bring in Pacquiao income he cant even get a fight now.


bradley would have never got that fight if he wasn't signed with arum. arum will milk a fighter and give bullshit match ups because the fan bases eat that shit up. i can go down a long list of examples...but i won't.

donaire had one sensational ko with arum...and that was against montiel. he tried to jump ship right after that. since then he's been matched very favorably against over matched opposition. he underwhelmed the fans against guys he should have beat impressively. sure...arum can keep running that game on donaire's filipino fans...but the fans who know the sport and expect better are going to question his p4p status. it's that simple. i get how the business works...and unfortunately, the history books and the hof don't acknowledge the fighters with the best business sense...they acknowledge the fighters who dare to be great and have amazing accomplishments.

i'm not interested in what arum can or can't afford. as a person who pays for premium cable just to watch boxing...i expect more. i will hold arum and hbo to higher expectations. if i was a share holder for hbo or toprank...or employed by them, i might feel differently. what i am interested in is seeing the best fight the best and watching future up-and-comers try to make their mark in the boxing world.
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leonthegee
post Oct 17 2012, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 17 2012, 02:37 PM) *
bradley would have never got that fight if he wasn't signed with arum. arum will milk a fighter and give bullshit match ups because the fan bases eat that shit up. i can go down a long list of examples...but i won't.

donaire had one sensational ko with arum...and that was against montiel. he tried to jump ship right after that. since then he's been matched very favorably against over matched opposition. he underwhelmed the fans against guys he should have beat impressively. sure...arum can keep running that game on donaire's filipino fans...but the fans who know the sport and expect better are going to question his p4p status. it's that simple. i get how the business works...and unfortunately, the history books and the hof don't acknowledge the fighters with the best business sense...they acknowledge the fighters who dare to be great and have amazing accomplishments.

i'm not interested in what arum can or can't afford. as a person who pays for premium cable just to watch boxing...i expect more. i will hold arum and hbo to higher expectations. if i was a share holder for hbo or toprank...or employed by them, i might feel differently. what i am interested in is seeing the best fight the best and watching future up-and-comers try to make their mark in the boxing world.


I agree with you and im a fan too but fan is short for fanatic. Companies have to make a profit. And its fighters like Manny and Nonito that pay TRs bills. The big names pay the bills and support the Rigos, Vanes, and Bradleys of the world who dont bring in much revenue. With Cotto leaving somebodies got to fill that roster spot and recover that money Cotto wouldve brought in. So as a businessman I get it. If Rigos the real deal he will be there in a yr. Its about revenue in this circumstance.

Gamboa got out of his contract for 70 grrr. Why so low? Because its about revenue not skill. Gamboa wasnt a draw in this country. I can easily see Rigo doing the same thing in a yr if he doesnt earn for Arum. Arum needs to get the networks and sponsers behind Rigo. The US doesnt associate with Cuba so Rigos country cant support him like a Cotto or Canelo. Which leaves him fighting for chicken scratch. Canelo has a country ready to support him. Showtime and Corona beer love him and thats why everybody wants to fight him. Its not because Canelos the best. Mayweather chased Mosley and DLH for yrs before one of them through him a bone. Canelo doesnt have that problem. Its not one persons fault. Some people are grow up with parents that are teachers. Some are born into the Hilton family. You got the haves and have nots. Its how this country was built.
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daprofessor
post Oct 17 2012, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 17 2012, 06:10 PM) *
I agree with you and im a fan too but fan is short for fanatic. Companies have to make a profit. And its fighters like Manny and Nonito that pay TRs bills. The big names pay the bills and support the Rigos, Vanes, and Bradleys of the world who dont bring in much revenue. With Cotto leaving somebodies got to fill that roster spot and recover that money Cotto wouldve brought in. So as a businessman I get it. If Rigos the real deal he will be there in a yr. Its about revenue in this circumstance.

Gamboa got out of his contract for 70 grrr. Why so low? Because its about revenue not skill. Gamboa wasnt a draw in this country. I can easily see Rigo doing the same thing in a yr if he doesnt earn for Arum. Arum needs to get the networks and sponsers behind Rigo. The US doesnt associate with Cuba so Rigos country cant support him like a Cotto or Canelo. Which leaves him fighting for chicken scratch. Canelo has a country ready to support him. Showtime and Corona beer love him and thats why everybody wants to fight him. Its not because Canelos the best. Mayweather chased Mosley and DLH for yrs before one of them through him a bone. Canelo doesnt have that problem. Its not one persons fault. Some people are grow up with parents that are teachers. Some are born into the Hilton family. You got the haves and have nots. Its how this country was built.


floyd wasn't a big draw when he was with toprank. how much did he pay to get out of his contract? how did floyd get to be the big dog he is today? i get what you're saying about business...but there is more than one way to skin a cat. duran didn't have big sponsors or networks behind him. panama is a tiny country compared to cuba or the phillipines. same can be said for trinidad and puerto rico. there are plenty of cubans in the u.s. gamboa and rigondeaux both can be big stars...problem is...they're with the wrong promoter for that. neither guy is ray leonard/oscar de la hoya like...and they don't speak english....i seriously doubt he puts on any cuban power cards anytime soon. arum is the best because the other promoters suck. i think if don king of old were around today...guys like gamboa and rigondeaux would be bigger stars than what they are.
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Posts in this topic
- daprofessor   stop with the talk of nonito donaire being P4P   Oct 15 2012, 06:15 PM
- - Cshel86   Class is officially in fuckin' session! Th...   Oct 15 2012, 06:19 PM
- - checkleft   This is a thread that I have made in my head a mil...   Oct 15 2012, 07:22 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Oct 15 2012, 07:22 PM)...   Oct 15 2012, 07:26 PM
- - Cshel86   The big elephant in the room is, what division has...   Oct 15 2012, 08:21 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 15 2012, 08:21 PM) T...   Oct 16 2012, 12:38 PM
- - leonthegee   Nonito has p4p talent. He doesnt have a p4p resume...   Oct 15 2012, 08:26 PM
|- - bnoles4life   QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 15 2012, 09:26 PM...   Oct 16 2012, 07:26 AM
- - Jovi   Thank you for posting this, i came on this site ho...   Oct 15 2012, 11:56 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Jovi @ Oct 15 2012, 11:56 PM) Than...   Oct 16 2012, 12:42 PM
- - Cshel86   The problem with the boxing world, is that they ar...   Oct 16 2012, 07:12 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 16 2012, 07:12 AM) T...   Oct 16 2012, 12:53 PM
- - BoxingEinstein   SMH at this post, some of you are the same people ...   Oct 16 2012, 01:39 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 02:3...   Oct 16 2012, 02:12 PM
|- - BoxingEinstein   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 16 2012, 03:12 P...   Oct 16 2012, 02:34 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 03:3...   Oct 16 2012, 03:48 PM
|- - BoxingEinstein   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 16 2012, 04:48 P...   Oct 16 2012, 06:05 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 07:0...   Oct 16 2012, 06:16 PM
|- - BoxingEinstein   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 16 2012, 07:16 P...   Oct 16 2012, 06:47 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 07:4...   Oct 16 2012, 08:30 PM
- - flazi   if you think donaire wil smoke rigondueax, you are...   Oct 16 2012, 02:08 PM
- - mgrover   maybe if he beats mares, rigon, etc etc etc but no...   Oct 16 2012, 02:59 PM
|- - BoxingEinstein   QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 16 2012, 03:59 PM) m...   Oct 16 2012, 03:24 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 04:2...   Oct 16 2012, 03:50 PM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 09:2...   Oct 16 2012, 05:47 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 16 2012, 06:47 PM) t...   Oct 16 2012, 06:09 PM
|- - BoxingEinstein   QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 16 2012, 06:47 PM) t...   Oct 16 2012, 06:30 PM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 17 2012, 12:3...   Oct 17 2012, 05:23 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (mgrover @ Oct 17 2012, 05:23 AM) m...   Oct 17 2012, 12:25 PM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Oct 16 2012, 03:2...   Oct 16 2012, 03:37 PM
- - Cshel86   Donaire has yet to be tested himself, and he barel...   Oct 16 2012, 03:40 PM
- - Cshel86   Who has Donaire beat? Montiel? That was a nice kno...   Oct 16 2012, 08:22 PM
- - Cshel86   I may be in the minority here, but here it goes. I...   Oct 16 2012, 10:55 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 16 2012, 10:55 PM) I...   Oct 17 2012, 12:24 PM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 17 2012, 01:24 P...   Oct 17 2012, 12:33 PM
- - Franchize   As soon as I saw this topic, I knew Cshel was read...   Oct 17 2012, 09:51 AM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (Franchize @ Oct 17 2012, 10:51 AM)...   Oct 17 2012, 10:51 AM
- - daprofessor   to donaire's credit....i agree with max when h...   Oct 17 2012, 12:52 PM
- - leonthegee   If Rigo is as good as everybody thinks he is than ...   Oct 17 2012, 01:16 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 17 2012, 01:16 PM...   Oct 17 2012, 02:01 PM
|- - leonthegee   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 17 2012, 12:01 P...   Oct 17 2012, 03:43 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 17 2012, 03:43 PM...   Oct 17 2012, 04:37 PM
|- - leonthegee   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 17 2012, 02:37 P...   Oct 17 2012, 06:10 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (leonthegee @ Oct 17 2012, 06:10 PM...   Oct 17 2012, 06:37 PM
- - daprofessor   searching the rankings...i came across this poll o...   Oct 17 2012, 02:03 PM
- - flazi   i don't think rigo can wait. he is getting up...   Oct 17 2012, 03:08 PM
- - daprofessor   so it was looking like arce was going to be next.....   Oct 23 2012, 03:36 PM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 23 2012, 04:36 P...   Oct 23 2012, 07:14 PM
- - daprofessor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Oct 23 2012, 08:14 PM)...   Oct 23 2012, 09:02 PM


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