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> PPV@9PM(ET)/6PM(PT)-Pacquiao-Marquez IV-SPOILERS (Topics Merged), Should There Be a Fifth Fight? Poll Added!!!
Should Pacquiao and Marquez Fight a Fifth Time?
Pacquaio-Marquez V?
Yes [ 3 ] ** [30.00%]
No [ 6 ] ** [60.00%]
Not Sure [ 1 ] ** [10.00%]
Total Votes: 10
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Jack 1000
post Dec 12 2012, 11:27 PM
Post #271

The Consultant

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On should there be a fight 5?

I vote not sure, and don't have a strong feeling one way or the other. There are good sides and bad sides:

Why a rematch is good:

  • Very few times in modern boxing do we get a series of fights like this. A lot of big names don't fight once.
  • It will draw huge promotion and fan numbers. Fight 4 was a classic, so why not?
  • Manny and Juan seem to be destined to fight each other. They know the styles of each so well.
  • Now the build is that both could drop the other at any time with the power from fight four.

Why a rematch is bad:

  • For Marquez, he can't top what he just did in knocking out Pacquaio. What's left to prove?
  • I have talked to several people who are convinced that both Juan and Manny juiced for this fight. I am not sure.
  • Age is a factor for both men. The fifth fight could be tactical and disappointing.
  • Critics say, no need for a rematch, Juan FINALLY got his deserved win with three other close fights for these great champions. Let them hang it up.
  • What about Manny physiologically after getting KOd like that? This could be negative.

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post Dec 13 2012, 08:15 AM
Post #272


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Made a lengthy post in another thread about this:

Time for a basic Biology discussion.

A man stops growing in his mid-20's. He reaches peak physical strength in his late 20's. He maintains that strength into his early 30's. From age 35 onward, your testosterone levels fall off and you precipitously lose the athletic ability that you had in your peak years of 27 through 31 or so.

There's a reason why in most sports, people start to fall off from their early 30's onward.

During Marquez's peak years, he was fighting at 126 lbs. This weight class represents the height of his fully grown athletic abilities.

The idea that through weight straining and maintaining a diet, a man can transform his body works in the case of a growing man, who has a frame that is not fully filled and has room to grow, so to speak. This is why athletes can put on 10 - 15 pounds of muscle and gain a lot of strength. A younger body is also able to work out for extended periods of time, as your ability to heal from the weight-training is still great.

As you get older, you lose the ability to recover. Your metabolism slows down. The time taken to heal from injuries gets longer and longer.

There is simply no way that after a certain age, in the sport of boxing, that a man can gain the power needed to hurt naturally larger men.

Marquez fought Pacquiao 3 times before this most recent fights. In all of those fights, he hit Pacquiao with clean, precise and powerful right hand shots. Pacquiao was badly wobbled on several occasions.

However, he never went down and was never hurt to the point of being finished by a barrage of unanswered punches.

This is a critical point.

A 39 year old man suddenly gains the power to knock a man down brutally 2 times at a higher weight class than the one which he fought when he was at his athletic peak. Interesting.

A 39 year old man suddenly has a physique that he never had when his natural testosterone levels were at their highest (body musculature is directly related to the testosterone levels in a man's blood).

A 39 year old man suddenly has the ability to embark on an ambitious Cross Fit style training program that is centered around heavy weight training.

A 39 year old man who has never been known as a devastating one punch knockout power type of fighter suddenly does just that to a man who he has never hurt to that point before, and one who has taken the best shots of larger and stronger men than Marquez.

A 39 year old man who has tried fighting at this weight before only to look sluggish and lacking definite power suddenly gains explosive power.

Floyd Mayweather, in his post 130 lbs. boxing career, has seen a considerable drop in his power, which is natural. You reach a certain power level at your peak and then gradually lose that power over time. He has beaten much larger men because of pure skills and technique. Not through power.

Angel Heredia can say whatever he wants. In this day and age, testing standards are entire generations behind what is available for abuse. Nowadays, people don't even use "steroids". After all, why would you, when you can easily acquire so many steroid pre-cursors that start the process on a much more natural level (stimulating the body to produce more testosterone instead of artificial testosterone introduction).

Of course they're "confident that we would beat any test". It's because the tests are prehistoric.

The only reason I don't feel a sense of outright injustice is that Pacquiao himself has abused performance enhancing drugs, a claim that I may not be able to definitely prove, but which I am willing to absolutely bet my house on.

But once again, the idea that a man who at the twilight of his career can somehow gain the ability to make a dude who he has never truly hurt before do an incredible mattress commercial impersonation, is laughable at best.
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post Dec 13 2012, 09:44 AM
Post #273

"The Meanest Nice Guy"

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Good points Max.

This is one of those seesaw situations, and that's the best way I can put it. As we've all discussed over the past few days:

1. That punch that dropped Manny in the 3rd round, was the SAME punch that stunned him in the first fight. The ropes were there to hold him up and I'm sure his punch resistance was somewhat decent 8 years ago. Was Marquez just stronger? Was his timing just perfect? Was Manny not expecting the punch to land cleanly? Is Manny just not able to take a punch anymore?

2. Those workouts that Marquez were doing...they were good for his body and he seemed revived for the new training style. NOW...some of the weight lifting concerned me, and I thought it was going to work against Marquez. Has he gotten a bit slower? Yes...saw it in the 3rd fight and the Fedchenko fight. He still has good timing for the most part, but he's slower mounting an offense, and sometimes slower at punching back.

3. I've seen older guys that work out harder than me, and some have better bodies than most of us in our 20's. Motivation for a new look? Maybe. I get the whole testosterone discussion too...it just seems that some guys hit that decline faster than others. Let's face it, Marquez has ALWAYS been old. Lol

4. Maybe money was his motivation here. Another huge payday against a guy that he knows how to fight, but yet, is still a threat to him. In the same breath, I cant agree with wanting to "let the world know who really won". I can see if he was getting paid $1M (or lower) for this fight, then he'd really have a reason to be pissed and show people who really won.

5. He basically did the same shit to Manny, that he's done in the previous 3 fights. He just had a bit more muscle to pull it off. I wont lie and say that I didn't think that he was on something, but hell, I just saw the dude do a bunch of somewhat counterproductive workouts and fight a guy that he's fought 3 times. Let's look at this way, most guy have only gotten one shot at Manny (aside from Morales and Barrera), but you should be able to pull a rabbit out of the hat by the 4th fight. Think so? Again, he did the same thing in this fight, as he did in the previous 3 fights.

Manny made a mistake in the fight, and walked directly into the punch. It was a counterpunch that even Calderon could've put him down with. Manny has always been wreckless, but this time, he was 3 times that. He was even more vulnerable because of the time that the KO occurred...within the last 10 seconds of the fight. That was totally Manny's fault, but he's been known to try and steal rounds...he's been doing that lately.

I'm sure he knew that he was winning the round, and probably thinking, "Shit, let me go ahead and try to soften him up with something before he goes back to t- *BOOM*...and Manny's face down on the canvas. Hard to watch, but he got a bit too overconfident. To think about it, if he was really winning the round, then why feel the need to "steal" the round, especially in the last 10 seconds? Hmm...maybe both guys wanted to convince the judges...but Marquez did that with one punch.

I remember your breakdown of Anderson Silva's speedy weight but...classic...I'll never forget that. I just think that Marquez knew what he had to do, and he did it. He may have been a bit on the counterproductive side with the weightlifting, but he's had 3 chances to fight this guy...they're basically family at this point. It sort of reminds me of Sergio Martinez when he cleaned Williams' clock in the rematch. He caught him the same punch in the first fight, he just had another chance to seal the deal.
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