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> did PED'S do pac in???, i don't think so...
daprofessor
post Dec 11 2012, 07:50 PM
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there is a lot of talk going around about the possibility of jmm being on something....and him doing something he couldn't do in the previous 3 fights.

let's get it straight once and for all...

pac's own aggression did him in! go back and watch that video.

with the first knock down...jmm did a brilliant job of setting up the overhand right by throwing the left hook to the body. he landed a few times on pac to set the pattern. as jmm stepped in he motioned as if he was going for that same hook and instead delivered the overhand right which pac did not anticipate. anyone who knows boxing will tell you...IT'S THE SHOT YOU DON'T SEE COMING THAT HURTS U THE MOST!!!! and pac did not see that overhand right coming. it appeared to land on the temple. if you go back and watch their previous fights....jmm landed that shot before and it wobbled pac. factor in age...and wear and tear...and u have an explanation for the knockdown.

the KO...

pac was coming on after the knock down...and jmm was reeling a bit. the momentum shifted in pac's favor and he got more confident, aggressive and careless. as in previous bouts....jmm attacked...then retreated...drawing pac in during the final seconds of the round. pac lunged in aggressively with a jab and jmm timed him perfectly by sliding his head to the left and delivering an overhand right that was short and very compact. BOOM!!! LIGHTS OUT!!!!

pac outweighed jmm

pac was supposed to be the bigger puncher

jmm was not trying to box and score points in this fight.

he was going for the ko...it's that simple.

he had a much more aggressive stance in this fight.

a simple change in stance can be the difference between a scoring blow...and one that puts u to sleep.

This post has been edited by daprofessor: Dec 11 2012, 07:52 PM
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Marcus
post Dec 11 2012, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 11 2012, 07:50 PM) *
there is a lot of talk going around about the possibility of jmm being on something....and him doing something he couldn't do in the previous 3 fights.

let's get it straight once and for all...

pac's own aggression did him in! go back and watch that video.

with the first knock down...jmm did a brilliant job of setting up the overhand right by throwing the left hook to the body. he landed a few times on pac to set the pattern. as jmm stepped in he motioned as if he was going for that same hook and instead delivered the overhand right which pac did not anticipate. anyone who knows boxing will tell you...IT'S THE SHOT YOU DON'T SEE COMING THAT HURTS U THE MOST!!!! and pac did not see that overhand right coming. it appeared to land on the temple. if you go back and watch their previous fights....jmm landed that shot before and it wobbled pac. factor in age...and wear and tear...and u have an explanation for the knockdown.

the KO...

pac was coming on after the knock down...and jmm was reeling a bit. the momentum shifted in pac's favor and he got more confident, aggressive and careless. as in previous bouts....jmm attacked...then retreated...drawing pac in during the final seconds of the round. pac lunged in aggressively with a jab and jmm timed him perfectly by sliding his head to the left and delivering an overhand right that was short and very compact. BOOM!!! LIGHTS OUT!!!!

pac outweighed jmm

pac was supposed to be the bigger puncher

jmm was not trying to box and score points in this fight.

he was going for the ko...it's that simple.

he had a much more aggressive stance in this fight.

a simple change in stance can be the difference between a scoring blow...and one that puts u to sleep.


I agree. I think it's pure boxing skills combined with the will to win/motivation from being robbed that "did pac in". And Marquez was always able to stagger Pacquiao. I just think in training camp he put huge emphasis on speed and strength because he realized that boxing skills werent enough to win the fight. He needed power to create a stoppage.

This entire sequence of events is interesting.

Theres valid speculation for Pacquiao using steroids. From him going from a knock out fighter that came from 105 able to make a bigger and stronger Cotto/Margarito quit. To having subpar performances as the issue of drug testing has become more controversial in boxing. (IM NOT ACCUSING HIM OF ANYTHING)

But here's where it gets interesting. Pacquiao and his team can't even make a case for drug testing because when Floyd began to make that a prevalent thing in boxing starting from '09 Mayweather-Pacquiao negotiations, Pacquiao wasn't with it when he was speculated of using PEDs. Even though Pacquaio turned back on his stance on drug testing in negotiations for the super fight, now for him to have open speculation about PED usage on Marquez's behalf makes him look like a fool. Had he accepted drug testing in '09, and tried to help Floyd change the sport as the second face of boxing, he could've made a strong case in against Marquez.

Freddie Roach just looks pathetic to make allegations with his history with PEDs in the sport. He should really keep his mouth shut because ALL of his fighters have been doing terrible this year.

This post has been edited by Marcus: Dec 11 2012, 08:16 PM
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daprofessor
post Dec 11 2012, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (Marcus @ Dec 11 2012, 08:15 PM) *
I agree. I think it's pure boxing skills combined with the will to win/motivation from being robbed that "did pac in". And Marquez was always able to stagger Pacquiao. I just think in training camp he put huge emphasis on speed and strength because he realized that boxing skills werent enough to win the fight. He needed power to create a stoppage.

This entire sequence of events is interesting.

Theres valid speculation for Pacquiao using steroids. From him going from a knock out fighter that came from 105 able to make a bigger and stronger Cotto/Margarito quit. To having subpar performances as the issue of drug testing has become more controversial in boxing. (IM NOT ACCUSING HIM OF ANYTHING)

But here's where it gets interesting. Pacquiao and his team can't even make a case for drug testing because when Floyd began to make that a prevalent thing in boxing starting from '09 Mayweather-Pacquiao negotiations, Pacquiao wasn't with it when he was speculated of using PEDs. Even though Pacquaio turned back on his stance on drug testing in negotiations for the super fight, now for him to have open speculation about PED usage on Marquez's behalf makes him look like a fool. Had he accepted drug testing in '09, and tried to help Floyd change the sport as the second face of boxing, he could've made a strong case in against Marquez.

Freddie Roach just looks pathetic to make allegations with his history with PEDs in the sport. He should really keep his mouth shut because ALL of his fighters have been doing terrible this year.


i find it very comical that the ppl suggesting that jmm is on something and pointing to his s&c coach as reason to believe are the very same ones who ignored all the signs of pac's possible usage. i also find it funny that those same ppl have never once questioned the dangerous contractual stipulations that led to pac's impressive victories over the years. they justify the trickery with a simple..."well, they signed the contract...they knew what they were getting into...blah,blah,blah..." where was the outcry to the commission then?

there is definitely a lot wrong with boxing....while i agree p.e.d's have no place in the sport....they are not the worst thing going on. there have been more deaths and brain injuries due to dehydration in boxing.

i think his fighters have been showing a serious lack of skill more than anything. that may be because he's spread way too thin.
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Cshel86
post Dec 11 2012, 09:30 PM
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Had Manny knocked JMM out cold, nobody would've even thought of PEDs and he would've still been the best fighter in the world. Now that JMM scored the KO (which came from a short calculated shot, the world gets to voice their opinions on who is on what. Weird, right?

When people started making a claim about Manny being on something, motherfuckers started getting charges pressed against them. Weird, right? But now that the 8-division champ gets his clock cleaned, the butthurt songcry about PEDs began. Weird, right?

As Professor said, JMM caught Manny with that same punch in the 1st fight, that dropped him in the 3rd round of the 4th fight. Difference is, the ropes were there to keep Manny up, and Im sure his punch resistance was better back then.

That KO punch was a product of timing on JMM's part, and carelessness on Manny's part.
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checkleft
post Dec 12 2012, 12:05 AM
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Juan doesn't have pillows for fists. The guy has 39? 40? Kos, add the fact that he is accurate that spells trouble for anybody.

As for pac he has lost muscle mass and he looked thick around the waist before the fight. Not saying its from roids but they do tend to make your body go bad after going off of them but I think its probably a lack of focus and not training very well.

This post has been edited by checkleft: Dec 12 2012, 12:07 AM
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The Original MrF...
post Dec 12 2012, 02:13 AM
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I think he's juicing. In his 20's, his body was never this chisseled. His shoulders look like he grew shoulder pads. The shot was a great shot and well timed and all, but the fact that this nearly 40 year old guy was able to keep that frantic pace for 6 rounds says a lot. The Marquez that fought Juan Diaz the first was good, but had trouble keeping pace and his resistance to the pillow puncher's punches nearly did him in in that first fight. He was not the same guy as far as conditioning. Timing was always there, but conditioning and strength was not.

Thats the thing about PED's, they dont necessarily make you a better fighter. They make your body better. Strength and conditioning gains can go a long way in a fight. Your tank is full all the time. Your power may increase. That clubbing overhand right that he dropped Pac with didnt have the same effect the 1st 3 fights. Now look at dude's shoulders and you can see the definite increases gained there, which would lead to more power from a punch like that. heredia, Marquez' strength and conditioning guy, is a known cheat and former dealer. The guy shouldnt be let anywhere near any professional athlete anywhere. He once said he can beat any tests?!?! I'm one who believes that if there's smoke, there's fire.
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sduck
post Dec 12 2012, 05:30 AM
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PEDs did do pac in, he toned down on that roid work, so now he can get knocked the f out.
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chance1
post Dec 12 2012, 07:12 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 11 2012, 08:50 PM) *
there is a lot of talk going around about the possibility of jmm being on something....and him doing something he couldn't do in the previous 3 fights.

let's get it straight once and for all...

pac's own aggression did him in! go back and watch that video.

with the first knock down...jmm did a brilliant job of setting up the overhand right by throwing the left hook to the body. he landed a few times on pac to set the pattern. as jmm stepped in he motioned as if he was going for that same hook and instead delivered the overhand right which pac did not anticipate. anyone who knows boxing will tell you...IT'S THE SHOT YOU DON'T SEE COMING THAT HURTS U THE MOST!!!! and pac did not see that overhand right coming. it appeared to land on the temple. if you go back and watch their previous fights....jmm landed that shot before and it wobbled pac. factor in age...and wear and tear...and u have an explanation for the knockdown.

the KO...

pac was coming on after the knock down...and jmm was reeling a bit. the momentum shifted in pac's favor and he got more confident, aggressive and careless. as in previous bouts....jmm attacked...then retreated...drawing pac in during the final seconds of the round. pac lunged in aggressively with a jab and jmm timed him perfectly by sliding his head to the left and delivering an overhand right that was short and very compact. BOOM!!! LIGHTS OUT!!!!

pac outweighed jmm

pac was supposed to be the bigger puncher

jmm was not trying to box and score points in this fight.

he was going for the ko...it's that simple.

he had a much more aggressive stance in this fight.

a simple change in stance can be the difference between a scoring blow...and one that puts u to sleep.


Nice review on how you lay out the breakdown of this match!
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mgrover
post Dec 12 2012, 07:49 AM
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i thought the wild and aggressive thing did him in tbh, in that 6th round were he stunned Marquez, he launched a flurry at him, but he hardly landed anything, and Marquez landed some pretty solid shots on him there, Marquez was laying ground work all fight long by consistently landing that right hand. Only surprising thing was that Pac managed to score a KD with his right hand. But I guess thats because Marquez didn't expect it, he expected the left hand.
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Cshel86
post Dec 12 2012, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 12 2012, 07:49 AM) *
i thought the wild and aggressive thing did him in tbh

My sentiments exactly...I didn't even have to read the rest of the post.
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