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> did PED'S do pac in???, i don't think so...
daprofessor
post Dec 11 2012, 07:50 PM
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there is a lot of talk going around about the possibility of jmm being on something....and him doing something he couldn't do in the previous 3 fights.

let's get it straight once and for all...

pac's own aggression did him in! go back and watch that video.

with the first knock down...jmm did a brilliant job of setting up the overhand right by throwing the left hook to the body. he landed a few times on pac to set the pattern. as jmm stepped in he motioned as if he was going for that same hook and instead delivered the overhand right which pac did not anticipate. anyone who knows boxing will tell you...IT'S THE SHOT YOU DON'T SEE COMING THAT HURTS U THE MOST!!!! and pac did not see that overhand right coming. it appeared to land on the temple. if you go back and watch their previous fights....jmm landed that shot before and it wobbled pac. factor in age...and wear and tear...and u have an explanation for the knockdown.

the KO...

pac was coming on after the knock down...and jmm was reeling a bit. the momentum shifted in pac's favor and he got more confident, aggressive and careless. as in previous bouts....jmm attacked...then retreated...drawing pac in during the final seconds of the round. pac lunged in aggressively with a jab and jmm timed him perfectly by sliding his head to the left and delivering an overhand right that was short and very compact. BOOM!!! LIGHTS OUT!!!!

pac outweighed jmm

pac was supposed to be the bigger puncher

jmm was not trying to box and score points in this fight.

he was going for the ko...it's that simple.

he had a much more aggressive stance in this fight.

a simple change in stance can be the difference between a scoring blow...and one that puts u to sleep.

This post has been edited by daprofessor: Dec 11 2012, 07:52 PM
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checkleft
post Dec 13 2012, 09:04 AM
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QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 13 2012, 07:32 AM) *
Very nice assesment, C'. You have made some very critical points.

However, you can boost your testosterone production via lots of natural sources. For instance seeds, peanuts these all contain oils that can boost the testosterone production in your body. That's why they are a key in good diet. I am not saying that a handful of peanuts will get you to the same levels as you had in late twenties but they do help.
Also, strength and power doesn't peak at the same time as the body and natural ability and at the same time one fills up his frame. Man is at his strongest at around 40 years of age.
Another thing is, you can transform from shit to fit in your late thirties no problem. Also, every body is different and reacts to new routines and exercises in a different way. Therefore one can't make assesments about somebody elses physique. What works for one, may not work for another.

I maintain, that reaching the physique Marquez has right now is achievable naturally. But i repeat, i too am waiting for the results ! I don't think the KO is a result of one punch knock out power, but the result of its "invisibility". Is Martinez a one punch knock out artist ? Nope. Did he KTFOd Williams with one punch? Yes. Is he in his late thirties ? Yes. Is there any controversy surrounding that KO ? Not really.
The main problem are the fighters involved and the history that they share. That's why the talk has immediatly begun imo.

But again, you hit the nail with some of your points, C'.

very good counter. Not only was Paul significantly younger he is known for having an iron chin. And I love what you said about how different people react differently to different methods of workouts. I'm not gonna get on board until the tests come back even tho marquez has a impeccable rep but it is definitely MORE than possible for an older man to gain the physique and strength seems to have gotten naturally. Idk why it seems so amazing to people, I guess dedication hard work and determination are steroids now...? Now again I'm not saying hes noy roided but its far from impossible for someone to get that way in their 40s. Seen it not only from boxers but also basketball players and just random old people I know at the gym PAST 40

QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 13 2012, 08:18 AM) *
someone once said if you live by the sword you die by the sword, am saying this for the last time, Pac was always aggressive, he was always a fighter that came out guns blazing and that's why people loved to watch him.

In recent years he slowed down and maybe took a more tactical approach, maybe not that much more tactical but that was a good thing since he was getting older and getting hit am sure took its toll on him, at the end of the day he is human.

So Marquez lands that perfect right hand, I think the reason Pac was out cold from a few reasons, the wear and tear his body has been through (Cotto, Margs and Clottey all managed to damage him), father time I think finally caught up with him. Am sure Marquez's new training had something to do with it whether it was legal or not. Aggression is a double edged sword and Pac finally after all these years paid the price.

But realistically aside from his 3rd fight with Marquez who has Pac fought that has had considerable punching power? Mosley and Bradley hardly really hurt Pac mostly because Mosley couldn't really touch him and Bradley had no real power. It's been almost two years since he's fought someone with that power to actually hurt him. I always wondered did his body simply become acustom to there power, but then for two years he was against light touches and then is hit by this monster right hand. Just a theory.

Great point also. Also back to the Paul Williams shot, he had taken those kinds of punches throughout his career. But that one punch put his lights out. Maybe, as you said it was his resistance wearing down or being unaware of the punch coming or a combination of the two. Either way pac was no defensive genius by any means and him rushing in like a fool with his hands almost completely dropped doesn't help either. That punch was made for bad moves like that

This post has been edited by checkleft: Dec 13 2012, 09:06 AM
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- daprofessor   did PED'S do pac in???   Dec 11 2012, 07:50 PM
- - Marcus   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 11 2012, 07:50 P...   Dec 11 2012, 08:15 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Marcus @ Dec 11 2012, 08:15 PM) I ...   Dec 11 2012, 08:20 PM
- - Cshel86   Had Manny knocked JMM out cold, nobody would'v...   Dec 11 2012, 09:30 PM
- - checkleft   Juan doesn't have pillows for fists. The guy h...   Dec 12 2012, 12:05 AM
- - The Original MrFactor   I think he's juicing. In his 20's, his bod...   Dec 12 2012, 02:13 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Dec 12 2012, 0...   Dec 12 2012, 02:03 PM
|- - VJones   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 12 2012, 03:03 P...   Dec 12 2012, 03:13 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (VJones @ Dec 12 2012, 03:13 PM) Pr...   Dec 12 2012, 05:18 PM
- - sduck   PEDs did do pac in, he toned down on that roid wor...   Dec 12 2012, 05:30 AM
|- - Franchize   QUOTE (sduck @ Dec 12 2012, 05:30 AM) PED...   Dec 12 2012, 10:25 AM
- - chance1   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 11 2012, 08:50 P...   Dec 12 2012, 07:12 AM
- - mgrover   i thought the wild and aggressive thing did him in...   Dec 12 2012, 07:49 AM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 12 2012, 07:49 AM) i...   Dec 12 2012, 10:04 AM
- - Gambit808   Rather he did or didn't use PED's, either ...   Dec 12 2012, 11:36 AM
- - Tha Docta   i think PED's had alot to do with JMM's vi...   Dec 12 2012, 01:53 PM
- - mitukczuk   I am kind of new to natural bodybuilding (been tra...   Dec 12 2012, 02:17 PM
|- - VJones   QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 12 2012, 03:17 PM)...   Dec 12 2012, 03:15 PM
|- - flazi   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 11 2012, 08:50 P...   Dec 12 2012, 03:27 PM
- - checkleft   Instead of roids people should be blaming pac or r...   Dec 12 2012, 02:49 PM
- - BoxingStill#1   Pacs undoing (in this fight) was a beautiful, perf...   Dec 12 2012, 04:30 PM
- - BigDDatHomey   PEDs or.not...it was a well timed shot. Watch the ...   Dec 12 2012, 05:01 PM
- - BigDDatHomey   Speaking of whether he is finished or not..remembe...   Dec 12 2012, 05:03 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BigDDatHomey @ Dec 12 2012, 05:03 ...   Dec 12 2012, 05:16 PM
- - checkleft   I didn't really think it was that bad of a kno...   Dec 12 2012, 05:37 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 12 2012, 05:37 PM)...   Dec 12 2012, 08:15 PM
|- - Plah   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 12 2012, 09:15 P...   Dec 12 2012, 10:00 PM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (Plah @ Dec 12 2012, 11:00 PM) I th...   Dec 13 2012, 02:23 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 13 2012, 02:23 AM)...   Dec 13 2012, 03:59 AM
- - MaxPayne   Time for a basic Biology discussion. A man stops...   Dec 13 2012, 05:56 AM
|- - mitukczuk   QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Dec 13 2012, 05:56 AM) ...   Dec 13 2012, 06:32 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 13 2012, 06:32 AM)...   Dec 13 2012, 02:29 PM
- - mgrover   someone once said if you live by the sword you die...   Dec 13 2012, 07:18 AM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 13 2012, 07:32 AM)...   Dec 13 2012, 09:04 AM
- - Franchize   To be honest, you didn't need to be a heavy po...   Dec 13 2012, 09:36 AM
- - pimpfighterROQ   It would be a good arguement that the shot Marquez...   Dec 13 2012, 10:01 AM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (pimpfighterROQ @ Dec 13 2012, 03:0...   Dec 13 2012, 01:04 PM
- - Tha Docta   I just cannot for the life of me remember a 39 yr ...   Dec 13 2012, 11:04 AM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (pimpfighterROQ @ Dec 13 2012, 11:0...   Dec 13 2012, 12:45 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 13 2012, 12:45 PM)...   Dec 13 2012, 02:36 PM
- - Cshel86   QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ Dec 12 2012, 04:30...   Dec 13 2012, 02:56 PM
|- - mitukczuk   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 13 2012, 02:56 PM) T...   Dec 13 2012, 05:00 PM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 13 2012, 05:00 PM)...   Dec 13 2012, 05:03 PM
- - daprofessor   there are definitely accusations flying around...a...   Dec 13 2012, 03:11 PM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 13 2012, 03:11 P...   Dec 13 2012, 03:21 PM
||- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 13 2012, 03:21 PM) O...   Dec 13 2012, 03:25 PM
|- - Tha Docta   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 13 2012, 03:11 P...   Dec 13 2012, 03:48 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Tha Docta @ Dec 13 2012, 03:48 PM)...   Dec 13 2012, 06:08 PM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 13 2012, 11:08 P...   Dec 13 2012, 06:18 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 13 2012, 06:18 PM) b...   Dec 13 2012, 07:20 PM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 13 2012, 02:36 P...   Dec 13 2012, 09:16 PM
|- - VJones   QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 13 2012, 10:16 PM)...   Dec 13 2012, 10:09 PM
- - VJones   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 12 2012, 06:18 P...   Dec 13 2012, 09:42 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (VJones @ Dec 13 2012, 09:42 PM) Th...   Dec 14 2012, 01:50 PM
||- - VJones   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 14 2012, 02:50 P...   Dec 14 2012, 04:26 PM
|- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (VJones @ Dec 13 2012, 08:42 PM) Th...   Dec 22 2012, 11:56 AM
- - duwdu   What do you say...Arum now says he would "ins...   Dec 13 2012, 11:24 PM
- - mgrover   thing is that may make a difference, no excuses ei...   Dec 14 2012, 12:26 PM
- - VJones   QUOTE (duwdu @ Dec 14 2012, 12:24 AM) Wha...   Dec 14 2012, 04:24 PM
- - daprofessor   is it me? or has merchant, lampley and hbo tried t...   Dec 17 2012, 03:52 AM
|- - Franchize   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 17 2012, 03:52 A...   Dec 17 2012, 09:11 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Franchize @ Dec 17 2012, 09:11 AM)...   Dec 17 2012, 01:32 PM
- - neophyte7   Yes sir. The intent was different this time. For b...   Dec 17 2012, 04:06 PM
- - Cshel86   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 17 2012, 03:52 A...   Dec 17 2012, 08:39 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 17 2012, 08:39 PM) I...   Dec 17 2012, 08:56 PM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 17 2012, 08:56 P...   Dec 18 2012, 02:55 PM
- - mgrover   I always wondered, if past the sixth round Pac was...   Dec 18 2012, 07:24 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 18 2012, 07:24 AM) I...   Dec 18 2012, 02:18 PM
- - neophyte7   I noticed an increase in HENNESSY ADS immediately ...   Dec 18 2012, 03:17 PM
- - daprofessor   QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Dec 18 2012, 03:17 PM)...   Dec 18 2012, 04:08 PM


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