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> did PED'S do pac in???, i don't think so...
daprofessor
post Dec 11 2012, 07:50 PM
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there is a lot of talk going around about the possibility of jmm being on something....and him doing something he couldn't do in the previous 3 fights.

let's get it straight once and for all...

pac's own aggression did him in! go back and watch that video.

with the first knock down...jmm did a brilliant job of setting up the overhand right by throwing the left hook to the body. he landed a few times on pac to set the pattern. as jmm stepped in he motioned as if he was going for that same hook and instead delivered the overhand right which pac did not anticipate. anyone who knows boxing will tell you...IT'S THE SHOT YOU DON'T SEE COMING THAT HURTS U THE MOST!!!! and pac did not see that overhand right coming. it appeared to land on the temple. if you go back and watch their previous fights....jmm landed that shot before and it wobbled pac. factor in age...and wear and tear...and u have an explanation for the knockdown.

the KO...

pac was coming on after the knock down...and jmm was reeling a bit. the momentum shifted in pac's favor and he got more confident, aggressive and careless. as in previous bouts....jmm attacked...then retreated...drawing pac in during the final seconds of the round. pac lunged in aggressively with a jab and jmm timed him perfectly by sliding his head to the left and delivering an overhand right that was short and very compact. BOOM!!! LIGHTS OUT!!!!

pac outweighed jmm

pac was supposed to be the bigger puncher

jmm was not trying to box and score points in this fight.

he was going for the ko...it's that simple.

he had a much more aggressive stance in this fight.

a simple change in stance can be the difference between a scoring blow...and one that puts u to sleep.

This post has been edited by daprofessor: Dec 11 2012, 07:52 PM
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The Original MrF...
post Dec 12 2012, 02:13 AM
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I think he's juicing. In his 20's, his body was never this chisseled. His shoulders look like he grew shoulder pads. The shot was a great shot and well timed and all, but the fact that this nearly 40 year old guy was able to keep that frantic pace for 6 rounds says a lot. The Marquez that fought Juan Diaz the first was good, but had trouble keeping pace and his resistance to the pillow puncher's punches nearly did him in in that first fight. He was not the same guy as far as conditioning. Timing was always there, but conditioning and strength was not.

Thats the thing about PED's, they dont necessarily make you a better fighter. They make your body better. Strength and conditioning gains can go a long way in a fight. Your tank is full all the time. Your power may increase. That clubbing overhand right that he dropped Pac with didnt have the same effect the 1st 3 fights. Now look at dude's shoulders and you can see the definite increases gained there, which would lead to more power from a punch like that. heredia, Marquez' strength and conditioning guy, is a known cheat and former dealer. The guy shouldnt be let anywhere near any professional athlete anywhere. He once said he can beat any tests?!?! I'm one who believes that if there's smoke, there's fire.
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daprofessor
post Dec 12 2012, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Dec 12 2012, 02:13 AM) *
I think he's juicing. In his 20's, his body was never this chisseled. His shoulders look like he grew shoulder pads. The shot was a great shot and well timed and all, but the fact that this nearly 40 year old guy was able to keep that frantic pace for 6 rounds says a lot. The Marquez that fought Juan Diaz the first was good, but had trouble keeping pace and his resistance to the pillow puncher's punches nearly did him in in that first fight. He was not the same guy as far as conditioning. Timing was always there, but conditioning and strength was not.

Thats the thing about PED's, they dont necessarily make you a better fighter. They make your body better. Strength and conditioning gains can go a long way in a fight. Your tank is full all the time. Your power may increase. That clubbing overhand right that he dropped Pac with didnt have the same effect the 1st 3 fights. Now look at dude's shoulders and you can see the definite increases gained there, which would lead to more power from a punch like that. heredia, Marquez' strength and conditioning guy, is a known cheat and former dealer. The guy shouldnt be let anywhere near any professional athlete anywhere. He once said he can beat any tests?!?! I'm one who believes that if there's smoke, there's fire.


one look at 24/7 and u can see that jmm switched up his training regimen. he's doing explosive exercises that his muscles are responding to. i'm not familiar with his strength and conditioning coach's background...but i know great exercises when i see them. after a long career of doing the same shit over and over and over....ur muscles tend to stop responding to the usual exercises. when u switch it up, u shock the muscles...therefore they respond. his physique, imo, is the result of new (to him at least) training techniques and a scientific approach. no more piss, quail eggs and throwing rocks off the side of a mountain. this ain't rocky. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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VJones
post Dec 12 2012, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 12 2012, 03:03 PM) *
one look at 24/7 and u can see that jmm switched up his training regimen. he's doing explosive exercises that his muscles are responding to. i'm not familiar with his strength and conditioning coach's background...but i know great exercises when i see them. after a long career of doing the same shit over and over and over....ur muscles tend to stop responding to the usual exercises. when u switch it up, u shock the muscles...therefore they respond. his physique, imo, is the result of new (to him at least) training techniques and a scientific approach. no more piss, quail eggs and throwing rocks off the side of a mountain. this ain't rocky. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


Precisely. I think the mythology built around Manny is making everyone a little batty and perhaps overly suspicious (okay and sure, Heredia's past transgressions don't help, but people, this is boxing...by nature, this sport has attracted some of the shadiest of characters! Find me someone clean (of character) in boxing and ill sell you a story! Even HBO's commentators have had run ins with the legal system. Boxing's just a business that attracts dirt. Simple as that. But a person should be innocent until PROVEN gulity. And if one's past (mistakes) is the litmus to who a person currently is, then many of us are in trouble!)

Manny Pacquioa is a fighter who has suffered knockouts before (granted its been a while), has been getting beat down by "bigger" men for the past few years (ruptured ear drum, battered face, broken ribs,etc. -- compliments of Cotto, Marg, and Clottey), has been staggered badly in previous fights by Juanma (and delightfully, by that sam damn punch), and to boot, he went back to that same overly aggressive style, forgetting that agression is a two-edged sword especially when facing a master adjustor/counter-puncher like JMM. It was only a matter of time, people. This is JMM's season. He is a scientist in the ring. You can literally see him thinking and setting things up. The HBO cheerleaders and those who bought into the myth of Pac's invincibility saw Marquez as vulnerable after that flash knock down in the 5th, when he seemed to hurt his leg or knee....but I swear I could hear the 'click' of Marquez figuring Manny out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That overly-aggressive energy is perfectly suited for a counter-puncher, who's definitive aim is to use your energy against you. So Manny helped himself to that lullaby.

Oh Freddie Roach, why can't you teach defense and technique?? Smh.

Here's the other thing, let's not let this new (and yes, important) look at PEDs in the sport of boxing cause us to call "steroids" and insinuate illegalities every time a boxer looks "bigger" or "better". (JMM actually was only a pound heavier than a year ago at weigh-in, so while he looked more shredded and focused in certain areas, he wasn't actually bigger per say.)

Fact: there are plenty perfectly legal designer supplements (legal drugs, some of which were once illegal but are now governed by FDA) that give similar and sometimes equal boosts to anabolic steroids without currently known negative effects.

I'm a former athlete (track, basketball, martial arts). At the height of my competitive years, supplements like creatine, chromium, and other vitamins and minerals were staples in my fitness program. And while I definitely had to do the work and be genetically pre-disposed to good muscular structure, I can't deny the boost that sports medicine has given to athletes.

Bottom line: nothing at all nefarious about a veteran boxer dedicated for 25+ years, with an already high knocket record (similiar and equal to Pac's btw), building his strength with new science and undoubtly designer supplements, and knocking out an overly aggressive opponent. If JMM had knocked out anyone else in the boxing universe except Manny Pacquiao, nobody would utter a breath of suspicion.
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- daprofessor   did PED'S do pac in???   Dec 11 2012, 07:50 PM
- - Marcus   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 11 2012, 07:50 P...   Dec 11 2012, 08:15 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Marcus @ Dec 11 2012, 08:15 PM) I ...   Dec 11 2012, 08:20 PM
- - Cshel86   Had Manny knocked JMM out cold, nobody would'v...   Dec 11 2012, 09:30 PM
- - checkleft   Juan doesn't have pillows for fists. The guy h...   Dec 12 2012, 12:05 AM
- - The Original MrFactor   I think he's juicing. In his 20's, his bod...   Dec 12 2012, 02:13 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Dec 12 2012, 0...   Dec 12 2012, 02:03 PM
|- - VJones   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 12 2012, 03:03 P...   Dec 12 2012, 03:13 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (VJones @ Dec 12 2012, 03:13 PM) Pr...   Dec 12 2012, 05:18 PM
- - sduck   PEDs did do pac in, he toned down on that roid wor...   Dec 12 2012, 05:30 AM
|- - Franchize   QUOTE (sduck @ Dec 12 2012, 05:30 AM) PED...   Dec 12 2012, 10:25 AM
- - chance1   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 11 2012, 08:50 P...   Dec 12 2012, 07:12 AM
- - mgrover   i thought the wild and aggressive thing did him in...   Dec 12 2012, 07:49 AM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 12 2012, 07:49 AM) i...   Dec 12 2012, 10:04 AM
- - Gambit808   Rather he did or didn't use PED's, either ...   Dec 12 2012, 11:36 AM
- - Tha Docta   i think PED's had alot to do with JMM's vi...   Dec 12 2012, 01:53 PM
- - mitukczuk   I am kind of new to natural bodybuilding (been tra...   Dec 12 2012, 02:17 PM
|- - VJones   QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 12 2012, 03:17 PM)...   Dec 12 2012, 03:15 PM
|- - flazi   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 11 2012, 08:50 P...   Dec 12 2012, 03:27 PM
- - checkleft   Instead of roids people should be blaming pac or r...   Dec 12 2012, 02:49 PM
- - BoxingStill#1   Pacs undoing (in this fight) was a beautiful, perf...   Dec 12 2012, 04:30 PM
- - BigDDatHomey   PEDs or.not...it was a well timed shot. Watch the ...   Dec 12 2012, 05:01 PM
- - BigDDatHomey   Speaking of whether he is finished or not..remembe...   Dec 12 2012, 05:03 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (BigDDatHomey @ Dec 12 2012, 05:03 ...   Dec 12 2012, 05:16 PM
- - checkleft   I didn't really think it was that bad of a kno...   Dec 12 2012, 05:37 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 12 2012, 05:37 PM)...   Dec 12 2012, 08:15 PM
|- - Plah   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 12 2012, 09:15 P...   Dec 12 2012, 10:00 PM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (Plah @ Dec 12 2012, 11:00 PM) I th...   Dec 13 2012, 02:23 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 13 2012, 02:23 AM)...   Dec 13 2012, 03:59 AM
- - MaxPayne   Time for a basic Biology discussion. A man stops...   Dec 13 2012, 05:56 AM
|- - mitukczuk   QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Dec 13 2012, 05:56 AM) ...   Dec 13 2012, 06:32 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 13 2012, 06:32 AM)...   Dec 13 2012, 02:29 PM
- - mgrover   someone once said if you live by the sword you die...   Dec 13 2012, 07:18 AM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 13 2012, 07:32 AM)...   Dec 13 2012, 09:04 AM
- - Franchize   To be honest, you didn't need to be a heavy po...   Dec 13 2012, 09:36 AM
- - pimpfighterROQ   It would be a good arguement that the shot Marquez...   Dec 13 2012, 10:01 AM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (pimpfighterROQ @ Dec 13 2012, 03:0...   Dec 13 2012, 01:04 PM
- - Tha Docta   I just cannot for the life of me remember a 39 yr ...   Dec 13 2012, 11:04 AM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (pimpfighterROQ @ Dec 13 2012, 11:0...   Dec 13 2012, 12:45 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 13 2012, 12:45 PM)...   Dec 13 2012, 02:36 PM
- - Cshel86   QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ Dec 12 2012, 04:30...   Dec 13 2012, 02:56 PM
|- - mitukczuk   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 13 2012, 02:56 PM) T...   Dec 13 2012, 05:00 PM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 13 2012, 05:00 PM)...   Dec 13 2012, 05:03 PM
- - daprofessor   there are definitely accusations flying around...a...   Dec 13 2012, 03:11 PM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 13 2012, 03:11 P...   Dec 13 2012, 03:21 PM
||- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 13 2012, 03:21 PM) O...   Dec 13 2012, 03:25 PM
|- - Tha Docta   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 13 2012, 03:11 P...   Dec 13 2012, 03:48 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Tha Docta @ Dec 13 2012, 03:48 PM)...   Dec 13 2012, 06:08 PM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 13 2012, 11:08 P...   Dec 13 2012, 06:18 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 13 2012, 06:18 PM) b...   Dec 13 2012, 07:20 PM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 13 2012, 02:36 P...   Dec 13 2012, 09:16 PM
|- - VJones   QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 13 2012, 10:16 PM)...   Dec 13 2012, 10:09 PM
- - VJones   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 12 2012, 06:18 P...   Dec 13 2012, 09:42 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (VJones @ Dec 13 2012, 09:42 PM) Th...   Dec 14 2012, 01:50 PM
||- - VJones   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 14 2012, 02:50 P...   Dec 14 2012, 04:26 PM
|- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (VJones @ Dec 13 2012, 08:42 PM) Th...   Dec 22 2012, 11:56 AM
- - duwdu   What do you say...Arum now says he would "ins...   Dec 13 2012, 11:24 PM
- - mgrover   thing is that may make a difference, no excuses ei...   Dec 14 2012, 12:26 PM
- - VJones   QUOTE (duwdu @ Dec 14 2012, 12:24 AM) Wha...   Dec 14 2012, 04:24 PM
- - daprofessor   is it me? or has merchant, lampley and hbo tried t...   Dec 17 2012, 03:52 AM
|- - Franchize   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 17 2012, 03:52 A...   Dec 17 2012, 09:11 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Franchize @ Dec 17 2012, 09:11 AM)...   Dec 17 2012, 01:32 PM
- - neophyte7   Yes sir. The intent was different this time. For b...   Dec 17 2012, 04:06 PM
- - Cshel86   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 17 2012, 03:52 A...   Dec 17 2012, 08:39 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 17 2012, 08:39 PM) I...   Dec 17 2012, 08:56 PM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 17 2012, 08:56 P...   Dec 18 2012, 02:55 PM
- - mgrover   I always wondered, if past the sixth round Pac was...   Dec 18 2012, 07:24 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 18 2012, 07:24 AM) I...   Dec 18 2012, 02:18 PM
- - neophyte7   I noticed an increase in HENNESSY ADS immediately ...   Dec 18 2012, 03:17 PM
- - daprofessor   QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Dec 18 2012, 03:17 PM)...   Dec 18 2012, 04:08 PM


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