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> did PED'S do pac in???, i don't think so...
Franchize
post Dec 12 2012, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Dec 12 2012, 05:30 AM) *
PEDs did do pac in, he toned down on that roid work, so now he can get knocked the f out.


LMAOOOOoo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

End of the day, every inkling or clue I get about Marquez possibly using roids completely applies to Manny too. Therefore, I think they were on an even playing field and Manny just got that ass whooped lol
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Gambit808
post Dec 12 2012, 11:36 AM
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Rather he did or didn't use PED's, either way u look at it, just know that Karma's a bitch.
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Tha Docta
post Dec 12 2012, 01:53 PM
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i think PED's had alot to do with JMM's victory. Now i dont think anyone can use PED's and KO manny, but looking at JMM's body in that ring was like looking at a little body builder. these lower weights have never been kind to older boxers, yet here is a 39 yr old that all of a sudden is very muscular and posseses one punch power. i wanted JMM to get a decisive victory here, but after the fight it left me with the same feeling when Bonds broke the single season HR record. yes, i think JMM used steroids, and yes, i think they played a big part in this victory.
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daprofessor
post Dec 12 2012, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Dec 12 2012, 02:13 AM) *
I think he's juicing. In his 20's, his body was never this chisseled. His shoulders look like he grew shoulder pads. The shot was a great shot and well timed and all, but the fact that this nearly 40 year old guy was able to keep that frantic pace for 6 rounds says a lot. The Marquez that fought Juan Diaz the first was good, but had trouble keeping pace and his resistance to the pillow puncher's punches nearly did him in in that first fight. He was not the same guy as far as conditioning. Timing was always there, but conditioning and strength was not.

Thats the thing about PED's, they dont necessarily make you a better fighter. They make your body better. Strength and conditioning gains can go a long way in a fight. Your tank is full all the time. Your power may increase. That clubbing overhand right that he dropped Pac with didnt have the same effect the 1st 3 fights. Now look at dude's shoulders and you can see the definite increases gained there, which would lead to more power from a punch like that. heredia, Marquez' strength and conditioning guy, is a known cheat and former dealer. The guy shouldnt be let anywhere near any professional athlete anywhere. He once said he can beat any tests?!?! I'm one who believes that if there's smoke, there's fire.


one look at 24/7 and u can see that jmm switched up his training regimen. he's doing explosive exercises that his muscles are responding to. i'm not familiar with his strength and conditioning coach's background...but i know great exercises when i see them. after a long career of doing the same shit over and over and over....ur muscles tend to stop responding to the usual exercises. when u switch it up, u shock the muscles...therefore they respond. his physique, imo, is the result of new (to him at least) training techniques and a scientific approach. no more piss, quail eggs and throwing rocks off the side of a mountain. this ain't rocky. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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mitukczuk
post Dec 12 2012, 02:17 PM
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I am kind of new to natural bodybuilding (been training for about 5 months now) but what can I say is this - with proper diet and good set of exercises, you can transform to a little beast in just about half a year. Marquez had a solid muscle foundation and as professor pointed out, his muscles are responding to new exercises, it is no surprise to me seeing JMM with that kind of physique. People don't seem to realize what kind of wonders you can do with your body with proper lifestyle. And if you are really serious about it... No PED will ever come close to what you can achieve...

JMM is not a shady character imo. I think he is clean but I am waiting for these results just to see all that badmouthing end.

This post has been edited by mitukczuk: Dec 12 2012, 02:21 PM
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checkleft
post Dec 12 2012, 02:49 PM
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Instead of roids people should be blaming pac or roach. At the time of the knockout manny did a dumbass feint hopstepped his ass right into the lions den hands completely dropped guns blazing and he paid for it. Seriously go back and look at it. Even the newbies at the gym know better than that
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VJones
post Dec 12 2012, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 12 2012, 03:03 PM) *
one look at 24/7 and u can see that jmm switched up his training regimen. he's doing explosive exercises that his muscles are responding to. i'm not familiar with his strength and conditioning coach's background...but i know great exercises when i see them. after a long career of doing the same shit over and over and over....ur muscles tend to stop responding to the usual exercises. when u switch it up, u shock the muscles...therefore they respond. his physique, imo, is the result of new (to him at least) training techniques and a scientific approach. no more piss, quail eggs and throwing rocks off the side of a mountain. this ain't rocky. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


Precisely. I think the mythology built around Manny is making everyone a little batty and perhaps overly suspicious (okay and sure, Heredia's past transgressions don't help, but people, this is boxing...by nature, this sport has attracted some of the shadiest of characters! Find me someone clean (of character) in boxing and ill sell you a story! Even HBO's commentators have had run ins with the legal system. Boxing's just a business that attracts dirt. Simple as that. But a person should be innocent until PROVEN gulity. And if one's past (mistakes) is the litmus to who a person currently is, then many of us are in trouble!)

Manny Pacquioa is a fighter who has suffered knockouts before (granted its been a while), has been getting beat down by "bigger" men for the past few years (ruptured ear drum, battered face, broken ribs,etc. -- compliments of Cotto, Marg, and Clottey), has been staggered badly in previous fights by Juanma (and delightfully, by that sam damn punch), and to boot, he went back to that same overly aggressive style, forgetting that agression is a two-edged sword especially when facing a master adjustor/counter-puncher like JMM. It was only a matter of time, people. This is JMM's season. He is a scientist in the ring. You can literally see him thinking and setting things up. The HBO cheerleaders and those who bought into the myth of Pac's invincibility saw Marquez as vulnerable after that flash knock down in the 5th, when he seemed to hurt his leg or knee....but I swear I could hear the 'click' of Marquez figuring Manny out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That overly-aggressive energy is perfectly suited for a counter-puncher, who's definitive aim is to use your energy against you. So Manny helped himself to that lullaby.

Oh Freddie Roach, why can't you teach defense and technique?? Smh.

Here's the other thing, let's not let this new (and yes, important) look at PEDs in the sport of boxing cause us to call "steroids" and insinuate illegalities every time a boxer looks "bigger" or "better". (JMM actually was only a pound heavier than a year ago at weigh-in, so while he looked more shredded and focused in certain areas, he wasn't actually bigger per say.)

Fact: there are plenty perfectly legal designer supplements (legal drugs, some of which were once illegal but are now governed by FDA) that give similar and sometimes equal boosts to anabolic steroids without currently known negative effects.

I'm a former athlete (track, basketball, martial arts). At the height of my competitive years, supplements like creatine, chromium, and other vitamins and minerals were staples in my fitness program. And while I definitely had to do the work and be genetically pre-disposed to good muscular structure, I can't deny the boost that sports medicine has given to athletes.

Bottom line: nothing at all nefarious about a veteran boxer dedicated for 25+ years, with an already high knocket record (similiar and equal to Pac's btw), building his strength with new science and undoubtly designer supplements, and knocking out an overly aggressive opponent. If JMM had knocked out anyone else in the boxing universe except Manny Pacquiao, nobody would utter a breath of suspicion.
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VJones
post Dec 12 2012, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 12 2012, 03:17 PM) *
I am kind of new to natural bodybuilding (been training for about 5 months now) but what can I say is this - with proper diet and good set of exercises, you can transform to a little beast in just about half a year. Marquez had a solid muscle foundation and as professor pointed out, his muscles are responding to new exercises, it is no surprise to me seeing JMM with that kind of physique. People don't seem to realize what kind of wonders you can do with your body with proper lifestyle. And if you are really serious about it... No PED will ever come close to what you can achieve...

JMM is not a shady character imo. I think he is clean but I am waiting for these results just to see all that badmouthing end.


Indeed!
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flazi
post Dec 12 2012, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 11 2012, 08:50 PM) *
there is a lot of talk going around about the possibility of jmm being on something....and him doing something he couldn't do in the previous 3 fights.

let's get it straight once and for all...

pac's own aggression did him in! go back and watch that video.

with the first knock down...jmm did a brilliant job of setting up the overhand right by throwing the left hook to the body. he landed a few times on pac to set the pattern. as jmm stepped in he motioned as if he was going for that same hook and instead delivered the overhand right which pac did not anticipate. anyone who knows boxing will tell you...IT'S THE SHOT YOU DON'T SEE COMING THAT HURTS U THE MOST!!!! and pac did not see that overhand right coming. it appeared to land on the temple. if you go back and watch their previous fights....jmm landed that shot before and it wobbled pac. factor in age...and wear and tear...and u have an explanation for the knockdown.

the KO...

pac was coming on after the knock down...and jmm was reeling a bit. the momentum shifted in pac's favor and he got more confident, aggressive and careless. as in previous bouts....jmm attacked...then retreated...drawing pac in during the final seconds of the round. pac lunged in aggressively with a jab and jmm timed him perfectly by sliding his head to the left and delivering an overhand right that was short and very compact. BOOM!!! LIGHTS OUT!!!!

pac outweighed jmm

pac was supposed to be the bigger puncher

jmm was not trying to box and score points in this fight.

he was going for the ko...it's that simple.

he had a much more aggressive stance in this fight.

a simple change in stance can be the difference between a scoring blow...and one that puts u to sleep.

boxing 101. this is what floyd did to corrales in their fight and also castillo did it to corrales for the first kd in their fight. i love it when guys set up punches this way. Toney did this a lot too as does Hopkins.

Marquez is clean. he is not bigger he is just more defined. his muscles are the same size just less fat on top of them. like me now, i look way better and more defined at 220 than i did at 230 and all i did was drop weight.
Marquez tried that ko punch earlier in the fight and hit manny with it so i know he was just waiting on another opportunity to try it again.
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BoxingStill#1
post Dec 12 2012, 04:30 PM
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Pacs undoing (in this fight) was a beautiful, perfectly chess move played by a brilliant boxer.

This was the classic brawler vs. Boxer finish.

The K.O,... a perfectly timed, perfectly thrown, perfectly planned right hand that had R.I.P all over it. Add this with the fact Marquez has settled comfortably into a new weight with newfound power, Pac had no choice but to go to sleep for a while..

But Pac isnt finished. Rest assured he gives hell to anyone who dares to brawl with him.

in short, he's not done, he's merely done with Marquez..

Now my wifi minutes are up on this cruise.. i go back now to clear waters, white sands, exotic women and strong drinks...
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