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> Skills vs. Popularity
Dolimite
post Jan 26 2013, 10:52 AM
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Boxing is a business the more popular you are the more money and fan base a fighter has. It seems sometimes in the sport of boxing a fighter's popular can cover the lack of skill a fighter has. For example: Mikey Garcia, an up and coming fighter isn't your typical Mexican fighter he moves around jabs and his defense, his skills are rising fast but his popularity isn't where it should be. Andrea Ward is another example, his skills are off the chart but his popularity is so so. Sergio Martinez who is a top Middle weight has great skills but his popularity isn't where it should be. Juan Manuel Marquez is just now getting the publicity that he should have already had because his skill set is very high. Shane Mosley would be the poster child for this category. Sweet Pea never got the crowd to wear it needed to be and Roy Jones as quiet as it is kept.

"Fighters" like Chavez Jr. who shouldn't even be in the ring has a fan base that the aforementioned fighters should have. The kid is a rock star with an average skill set, and that is due to his laziness. Saul Alvarez who has yet to be tested and his opponents has only showcased his strengths has a following of a mega rock star. Michael Jackson status. Others who make this list would be Manny Pacquiao (Pacquiao's boxing skill not style of fighting is what I am looking at. He is an exciting fighter and has had great wars and fights but his skill level as a boxer is average at best) is a a demigod. Paulie Maliggini (spelling is off) and Gattie (RIP) would also be in this category. Again I am looking at the skill set not the type of fighter that they are.

It is very rare that you have a fighter who is popular and has the skill set to match his popularity: Ali, Foreman, Joe Louis, Frasier, Hearns, Sugar Robinson, Mayweather, Duran, De La Hoya, Tyson and a slue of others.

If a boxer has the popularity but not the skill set should that boxer be praised as being one of the premier fighters or should they be viewed as hype, the boxer with the skill set and not the popularity or fan base should they be looked as a top fighter with no fan base or should promoters and cable companies create a venue for their skill set to be seen?
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daprofessor
post Jan 28 2013, 05:08 PM
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i would argue that all the fighters u have mentioned have skills. u don't get to the level that they're at without them. some rely on athleticism...some rely on careful matchmaking....some rely on speed and power...but all have some level of skill.

for as much shit as chavez jr catches from ppl who don't care for him...or believe he's only there because of his pops, i'll say that he was the guy in the ring all those times he fought..not his pops. the kids is not a phenom...but he can take a punch...and he definitely gives one. he is very highly skilled at setting up and delivering that left hook to the body. it's probably his best skill and something inherited from his pops.

canelo may be feasting on the little guys and over matched opponents...but coming from mexico...and in comparison to the rest of the mexican style fighters, he is definitely highly skilled with his counter punching style and great body punching skills. his counter right hand is a thing of beauty when he uses it. that's a high skill level move.

arturo gatti was a very highly skilled boxer before he fell in love with his punching power. go back and watch his fights with tracy patterson.

malignaggi is all skill. his under standing of distance, movement, counterpunching, drawing opponents and making them miss and making them pay. doesn't get much more skillful than that.

pacquiao definitely has skill. u don't beat guys like morales, barrera and marquez without skill. go back and watch those fights and pay close attention to the subtle things he does to set up his punches. that's skill that his definitely enhanced by his tenacity and athleticism.
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Dolimite
post Jan 28 2013, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 28 2013, 03:08 PM) *
i would argue that all the fighters u have mentioned have skills. u don't get to the level that they're at without them. some rely on athleticism...some rely on careful matchmaking....some rely on speed and power...but all have some level of skill.

for as much shit as chavez jr catches from ppl who don't care for him...or believe he's only there because of his pops, i'll say that he was the guy in the ring all those times he fought..not his pops. the kids is not a phenom...but he can take a punch...and he definitely gives one. he is very highly skilled at setting up and delivering that left hook to the body. it's probably his best skill and something inherited from his pops.

canelo may be feasting on the little guys and over matched opponents...but coming from mexico...and in comparison to the rest of the mexican style fighters, he is definitely highly skilled with his counter punching style and great body punching skills. his counter right hand is a thing of beauty when he uses it. that's a high skill level move.

arturo gatti was a very highly skilled boxer before he fell in love with his punching power. go back and watch his fights with tracy patterson.

malignaggi is all skill. his under standing of distance, movement, counterpunching, drawing opponents and making them miss and making them pay. doesn't get much more skillful than that.

pacquiao definitely has skill. u don't beat guys like morales, barrera and marquez without skill. go back and watch those fights and pay close attention to the subtle things he does to set up his punches. that's skill that his definitely enhanced by his tenacity and athleticism.


Professor I can respect that but what I am saying is that their popularity mask the things that they are lacking. Yes they are skilled but their popularity have pushed the name rather than their technique. Where you been!
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daprofessor
post Jan 28 2013, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 28 2013, 07:00 PM) *
Professor I can respect that but what I am saying is that their popularity mask the things that they are lacking. Yes they are skilled but their popularity have pushed the name rather than their technique. Where you been!


i was out of town for some fights.

i get that...yes...ok. so you're saying their popularity is greater than their skill set?
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Dolimite
post Jan 28 2013, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 28 2013, 05:06 PM) *
i was out of town for some fights.

i get that...yes...ok. so you're saying their popularity is greater than their skill set?


Jeremy Lin is a okay basketball player but his popularity is off the charts and it supersedes his skill set. Some fighters are in the same boat. They are skilled but their popularity supersedes their skill set.
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daprofessor
post Jan 28 2013, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 28 2013, 08:43 PM) *
Jeremy Lin is a okay basketball player but his popularity is off the charts and it supersedes his skill set. Some fighters are in the same boat. They are skilled but their popularity supersedes their skill set.


u know...i can agree with that and i'm probably going to say something that is going to piss a few ppl off, but i believe that is race based. lin is a talented asian player, pac is a talented asian boxer...as are the rest of the guys mentioned, but if they were black...they'd be held to a higher standard. u almost have to be exceptional to get the recognition u deserve...and even then, they still get shitted on by journalist and talking heads.
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Plah
post Jan 29 2013, 12:19 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 28 2013, 08:53 PM) *
u know...i can agree with that and i'm probably going to say something that is going to piss a few ppl off, but i believe that is race based. lin is a talented asian player, pac is a talented asian boxer...as are the rest of the guys mentioned, but if they were black...they'd be held to a higher standard. u almost have to be exceptional to get the recognition u deserve...and even then, they still get shitted on by journalist and talking heads.

Floyd.. is that you? haha jk.. Spot on.
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daprofessor
post Jan 31 2013, 02:35 PM
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QUOTE (Plah @ Jan 29 2013, 12:19 AM) *
Floyd.. is that you? haha jk.. Spot on.


i've made these arguments in other forums years before floyd said it. i also made the argument about pac avoiding slick black fighters about a year before bhop or john david jackson mentioned it as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Posts in this topic
- Dolimite   Skills vs. Popularity   Jan 26 2013, 10:52 AM
- - BigDDatHomey   I'm thinking that if you don't have the sk...   Jan 26 2013, 07:07 PM
|- - Dolimite   QUOTE (BigDDatHomey @ Jan 26 2013, 04:07 ...   Jan 26 2013, 07:43 PM
- - Cheesey1   QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 26 2013, 10:52 AM) ...   Jan 26 2013, 09:12 PM
- - mgrover   The media really, although am not sure how someone...   Jan 27 2013, 05:58 AM
|- - The Original MrFactor   QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 27 2013, 05:58 AM) T...   Jan 27 2013, 09:46 AM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 26 2013, 07:43 PM) ...   Jan 27 2013, 10:34 AM
|- - Dolimite   QUOTE (checkleft @ Jan 27 2013, 07:34 AM)...   Jan 27 2013, 06:28 PM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (checkleft @ Jan 27 2013, 03:34 PM)...   Jan 28 2013, 04:53 AM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 28 2013, 05:53 AM) D...   Jan 28 2013, 09:09 AM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (checkleft @ Jan 28 2013, 02:09 PM)...   Jan 28 2013, 10:49 AM
- - daprofessor   i would argue that all the fighters u have mention...   Jan 28 2013, 05:08 PM
|- - Dolimite   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 28 2013, 03:08 P...   Jan 28 2013, 06:00 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 28 2013, 07:00 PM) ...   Jan 28 2013, 08:06 PM
|- - Dolimite   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 28 2013, 05:06 P...   Jan 28 2013, 08:43 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 28 2013, 08:43 PM) ...   Jan 28 2013, 08:53 PM
|- - Plah   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 28 2013, 08:53 P...   Jan 29 2013, 12:19 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Plah @ Jan 29 2013, 12:19 AM) Floy...   Jan 31 2013, 02:35 PM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 28 2013, 11:49 AM) W...   Jan 28 2013, 05:17 PM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 28 2013, 08:53 P...   Jan 29 2013, 01:37 AM
|- - The Original MrFactor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Jan 29 2013, 01:37 AM)...   Jan 29 2013, 02:09 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (checkleft @ Jan 29 2013, 01:37 AM)...   Jan 31 2013, 02:36 PM
|- - The Original MrFactor   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 31 2013, 02:36 P...   Feb 1 2013, 07:48 AM
- - The Original MrFactor   Also, let me be fair, the same thing applies to Bl...   Jan 29 2013, 02:13 AM
|- - Dolimite   QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 29 2013, 1...   Jan 29 2013, 06:20 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jan 29 2013, 0...   Jan 31 2013, 02:39 PM
|- - The Original MrFactor   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 31 2013, 02:39 P...   Feb 1 2013, 07:49 AM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Feb 1 2013, 07...   Feb 1 2013, 02:08 PM
- - Cshel86   Popularity is key in boxing. As long as you're...   Jan 31 2013, 02:09 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 31 2013, 02:09 PM) P...   Jan 31 2013, 02:47 PM
- - Dolimite   QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Feb 1 2013, 05...   Feb 1 2013, 06:34 PM
- - daprofessor   QUOTE (Dolimite @ Feb 1 2013, 06:34 PM) I...   Feb 1 2013, 09:11 PM
- - Cheesey1   QUOTE (daprofessor @ Feb 1 2013, 09:11 PM...   Feb 17 2013, 01:58 PM


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