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> The Decline of Manny Pacquiao, When??
mgrover
post Feb 10 2013, 07:30 AM
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When do you think the decline started? A lot of people have said around the time he fought Clottey, others say around the time he fought Margarito. Personally am not quite sure, whether it was the decline of Pac or more the exposure around the time of the Mosley fight.
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Dric
post Feb 10 2013, 09:32 AM
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I would say after the Margarito fight, it was downhill from there.
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Plah
post Feb 10 2013, 11:24 AM
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I haven't seen any really, Marquez has his number, Bradley was an uncomfortable fight, Clottey and Mosley (after the KD) didn't came to fight. His rise was part of careful matchmaking and contract stipulations. Put him in with Ríos or Alvarado and you'll see the Pac of old.

This post has been edited by Plah: Feb 10 2013, 11:26 AM
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Dolimite
post Feb 10 2013, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE (Plah @ Feb 10 2013, 08:24 AM) *
I haven't seen any really, Marquez has his number, Bradley was an uncomfortable fight, Clottey and Mosley (after the KD) didn't came to fight. His rise was part of careful matchmaking and contract stipulations. Put him in with Ríos or Alvarado and you'll see the Pac of old.

+1

He was a fantastic fighter against fighters who would come straight forward. He has fast hands and he is an exciting fighter but against skilled fighters he looks less than average. I think his decline came or I should his skill or lack there of came when he fought JMM the 2 and third time and with Shane and Tim Bradley. They exposed Pacquiao's one dimensional fighting style.
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BrutUalBK
post Feb 10 2013, 03:59 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 10 2013, 07:30 AM) *
When do you think the decline started? A lot of people have said around the time he fought Clottey, others say around the time he fought Margarito. Personally am not quite sure, whether it was the decline of Pac or more the exposure around the time of the Mosley fight.



I believe his decline started when he fought JMM the third time, and then after that in sparring for the Margo fight he was complaining about leg cramps (probably from PED usage, this is one of the symptoms) and at first it seemed that they were using this as a built-in excuse going into the fight but it was later on mentioned that he had them going into the 3rd fight with JMM.

As far as Pac's skills, let's just say he wasn't ever really technical to begin with and the only thing Freddie really added to his game was a right hook.
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mitukczuk
post Feb 10 2013, 04:18 PM
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To me he didn't really even have a peak (skill-wise). He has always been the same. Exciting, fast hands, good power. That's it. Combined with second-to-none matchmaking you had Manny Pacquiao. I remember talking about him with a bunch of friends..it was right after the Morales II fight. We all marveled at the way he fought...but we also unanimously agreed that he is actually....nothing special..again. (I admit, we are all defense freaks)
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Marcus
post Feb 10 2013, 04:39 PM
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QUOTE (Plah @ Feb 10 2013, 11:24 AM) *
I haven't seen any really, Marquez has his number, Bradley was an uncomfortable fight, Clottey and Mosley (after the KD) didn't came to fight. His rise was part of careful matchmaking and contract stipulations. Put him in with Ríos or Alvarado and you'll see the Pac of old.


Agreed. I don't think Pacquiao ever declined. He just got exposed. His over hype, and over praise as a threat in the boxing industry is the reason why this conversation is existent. Top Rank did great with his career, his fight negotiations, and matchmaking. I think in his come back we will truly be able to tell if he's declined or if he's the same fighter. If he's not the same Pac-Man against come forward type guys/brawlers then we can start saying he declined. Styles make fights and top Rank messed up by putting him in there with guys who have skills.
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BrutUalBK
post Feb 10 2013, 04:56 PM
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QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Feb 10 2013, 04:18 PM) *
To me he didn't really even have a peak (skill-wise). He has always been the same. Exciting, fast hands, good power. That's it. Combined with second-to-none matchmaking you had Manny Pacquiao. I remember talking about him with a bunch of friends..it was right after the Morales II fight. We all marveled at the way he fought...but we also unanimously agreed that he is actually....nothing special..again. (I admit, we are all defense freaks)



Nothing wrong with being defensive minded in this sport, those who are usually last longer (Hopkins comes to mind) but I do agree with you that Manny (while a very exciting fighter) doesn't have the true boxing abilities of a Master Boxer. There are many things that Pac doesn't do that you see regularly in those who are Master Boxers execute, take a look at the styles of the following:

Mayweather
Hopkins
Broner
Marquez, though he's slowing down now but there are many others who are up and coming that are showing their wrinkles early like Omar Figueroa.

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xxxxxx
post Feb 11 2013, 01:15 AM
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If you watch the Pacquiao-Margarito fight...Margarito did some damage to PACMAN. Paquiao landed some incredible shots and probably ended Margaritos career early, but took a lot of punishment of his own. That was a brutal fight. You add all the Morales & Marquez fights and the Margarito Fight, this 1 in my eyes, was the beginning of Pacmans Decline. Hes still got fights in him though.
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mrchitown
post Feb 11 2013, 10:10 PM
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IMO his decline started after the Cotto fight. Realistically his run as this phenom is not impressive. Beating a corpse in DLH, a weight drained Cotto, who was battered by Margarito and probably lost to Clottey. In that fight, I always wondered if he hadn't of scored those early KD's how Cotto would've performed.

After that he looked avg at best. He beat Margarito like he stole something but he took tremendous punishment in that fight and in one of those later rds, Margarito caught him with some body shots that clearly got to Pacquiao and his face told the story at the end of the night. Mosley or should I say better yet Nazim Richardson laid out a blueprint to beat Manny, Shane was just shot to hell. You can analyze Manny's fights since the Cotto fight and look and see the he's studily declined. The performances just got shittier and shittier. If it wasn't JMM, it would've been somebody else to stop the Pacquiao express
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