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> Is he better now or then?? Is his legs gone?? (Floyd Mayweather), Did he lose a step or two?? You be the Judge
BrutUalBK
post Feb 12 2013, 06:03 PM
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Many people say that Floyd is better today than he was years ago but honestly I must say that the younger, faster Floyd got hit far less than he does today and I know that makes for a more action-packed/competitive bout because he's taking more risks standing in the pocket and trading but he never got hit as much when he was using his legs more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK9en6g9JTQ <<<His Defensive abilities

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK9en6g9JTQ <<<His Offensive abilities


Though the uneducated casual observer (those who do not know the difference between Boxing and Brawling) would say he was a Runner, I still favored his earlier style using his legs to box and not get hit than I do the more Crowd Pleasing Style today.

So, is he better today or then? Or did he lose a step or two??

Your thoughts???
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sduck
post Feb 22 2013, 07:23 AM
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Nope, nope, nope, and...NOPE!

The only clear decline I see and still ever saw is punching power. His reflexes look sharper in some fights than other fights... It's called human consistency. You also have to look at the way people fight. Styles make fights guys, stop forgetting this. People make too big of a deal out of some performances. Like Corrales for example was tailor made for the way Floyd chose to fight. Not taking anything from Floyd, giving him credit for pulling the performance off as good as he did, but that fight itself doesn't just determine how else he'd do against other fighters.

Why do people still mention the Castillo fight as if there wasn't TWO fights?
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BrutUalBK
post Feb 22 2013, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Feb 22 2013, 07:23 AM) *
Nope, nope, nope, and...NOPE!

The only clear decline I see and still ever saw is 1. punching power. His reflexes look sharper in some fights than other fights... It's called human consistency. You also have to look at the way people fight. Styles make fights guys, stop forgetting this. People make too big of a deal out of some performances. Like Corrales for example was tailor made for the way Floyd chose to fight. Not taking anything from Floyd, giving him credit for pulling the performance off as good as he did, but that fight itself doesn't just determine how else he'd do against other fighters.

2. Why do people still mention the Castillo fight as if there wasn't TWO fights?



1. I don't think Floyd has lost punching power (see the Ortiz KO for reference), I do believe that he has never been a big puncher but one who's punches come very quickly and the speed of which they come are stunning/surprising to the opponent. I always believed that it was possible for Floyd to KO many of his opponents but he never really sets down on his shots and that is why his punching power isn't perceived to be as good<<<the Ortiz punch KO dispells that myth.

2. Most of us only mention that fight because it is one in which many felt he lost and if not, at least it was probably his most closely contested fight, as much a fan I'am of his I have to admit that I felt he lost that fight but wasn't dominated/beaten. In the rematch he made it obvious that he won.
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sduck
post Feb 22 2013, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 22 2013, 06:44 PM) *
1. I don't think Floyd has lost punching power (see the Ortiz KO for reference), I do believe that he has never been a big puncher but one who's punches come very quickly and the speed of which they come are stunning/surprising to the opponent. I always believed that it was possible for Floyd to KO many of his opponents but he never really sets down on his shots and that is why his punching power isn't perceived to be as good<<<the Ortiz punch KO dispells that myth.

2. Most of us only mention that fight because it is one in which many felt he lost and if not, at least it was probably his most closely contested fight, as much a fan I'am of his I have to admit that I felt he lost that fight but wasn't dominated/beaten. In the rematch he made it obvious that he won.

I've watched all of Floyd's fights, all 43 of them. He has consistency issues over all, and is the most versatile fighter I've ever seen. It's easy to nitpick fights and judge from those, but for someone like Floyd you can't do that very accurately. The only true decline I've saw was his punching power, which is also another thing that seems to be inconsistent. He was known to be a power puncher in his earlier fights, which gambles between fights which I said was his consistency. It didn't completely diminish until his return in 2009 with the Marquez fight and on. And uh, Ortiz obviously lost his head and gave up the fight. Dude barely tried to get up and just smiled as he was counted out.
(For further reference on consistency, it's like how he battered Gatti or Corley, looking much stronger compared to many other fights... Or how he looked feather-fisted against Baldomir compared to his fights with Judah and De La Hoya... These are only some examples, but part of it over all is probably him choosing to hit harder in some fights compared to others, or being force too based on the style and whatnot. But he also states things like him going for the knockout in his fights with Marquez and Mosley, but then it looked clear to me his punching power just couldn't hold up to how he wanted like in previous bouts.)

The issue I see with people always mentioning that fight, is how they ignore the significance of the second fight. And when they do acknowledge the second fight, it's just put simple, "oh well he proved all doubt". Both fighters fought just about exactly the same way in both fights, it wasn't flat out "experience" improvement (like on defense) as I see many people keep saying, Floyd was just sharper and more on point with his game, and made Castillo look more ordinary compared to the first fight. The only real experience accounted for there was knowing Castillo more as a fighter from the first bout.

This post has been edited by sduck: Feb 22 2013, 09:51 PM
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BrutUalBK
post Feb 23 2013, 04:58 AM
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QUOTE (sduck @ Feb 22 2013, 09:46 PM) *
1. I've watched all of Floyd's fights, all 43 of them. He has consistency issues over all, and is the most versatile fighter I've ever seen. It's easy to nitpick fights and judge from those, but for someone like Floyd you can't do that very accurately. The only true decline I've saw was his punching power, which is also another thing that seems to be inconsistent. He was known to be a power puncher in his earlier fights, which gambles between fights which I said was his consistency. It didn't completely diminish until his return in 2009 with the Marquez fight and on. And uh, Ortiz obviously lost his head and gave up the fight. Dude barely tried to get up and just smiled as he was counted out.
(For further reference on consistency, it's like how he battered Gatti or Corley, looking much stronger compared to many other fights... Or how he looked feather-fisted against Baldomir compared to his fights with Judah and De La Hoya..
. These are only some examples, but part of it over all is probably him choosing to hit harder in some fights compared to others, or being force too based on the style and whatnot. But he also states things like him going for the knockout in his fights with Marquez and Mosley, but then it looked clear to me his punching power just couldn't hold up to how he wanted like in previous bouts.)

2. The issue I see with people always mentioning that fight, is how they ignore the significance of the second fight. And when they do acknowledge the second fight, it's just put simple, "oh well he proved all doubt". Both fighters fought just about exactly the same way in both fights, it wasn't flat out "experience" improvement (like on defense) as I see many people keep saying, Floyd was just sharper and more on point with his game, and made Castillo look more ordinary compared to the first fight. The only real experience accounted for there was knowing Castillo more as a fighter from the first bout.


1. Like you I have watched all of Floyd's fights, even his stuff in the Olympics and he is mostly consistent but I don't believe anyone here is nitpicking except you and why is what I highlighted in bold above. First of all you need not forget that Floyd moved up in weight when challenging those fighters and not everyone who moves up carries their power with them but at the same time it doesn't mean that their power has diminished, it simply means that the heavier fighters are able to absorb a fighter coming from the lighter weights punches better.

Case in point: how many fighters either the same weight, bigger or smaller have actually KO'd Oscar or Mosley?? How many have KO'd Gatti? How many KO'd Baldomir? All of those fighters started out at higher weight classes than Floyd and not many was able to stop them, I could throw Judah and Marquez in there as well even though JMM weighs less (he has a granite chin).

That's why i said you were nitpicking, no offense but to me those examples you gave are no indication of Floyd losing punching power.

2. I think it was better defense from Floyd in the second fight and I agree his offense was sharper, he didn't get nearly as much as the first fight with Castillo. Truthfully though, we may not always agree even if we do like Floyd as a fighter but that is why we have this forum to express our opinions. I just happen to feel that maybe due to the shoulder injury in their first fight that Floyd didn't give his best performance and the total output of punches landed favored JLC which is why I scored it for him but IMO, Floyd left no doubts at all in the 2nd fight though it was fought at the same pace, he just created more space and landed before JLC got close and then he moved/circled away brillantly.
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sduck
post Feb 23 2013, 07:54 AM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 23 2013, 04:58 AM) *
1. Like you I have watched all of Floyd's fights, even his stuff in the Olympics and he is mostly consistent but I don't believe anyone here is nitpicking except you and why is what I highlighted in bold above. First of all you need not forget that Floyd moved up in weight when challenging those fighters and not everyone who moves up carries their power with them but at the same time it doesn't mean that their power has diminished, it simply means that the heavier fighters are able to absorb a fighter coming from the lighter weights punches better.

Case in point: how many fighters either the same weight, bigger or smaller have actually KO'd Oscar or Mosley?? How many have KO'd Gatti? How many KO'd Baldomir? All of those fighters started out at higher weight classes than Floyd and not many was able to stop them, I could throw Judah and Marquez in there as well even though JMM weighs less (he has a granite chin).

That's why i said you were nitpicking, no offense but to me those examples you gave are no indication of Floyd losing punching power.

2. I think it was better defense from Floyd in the second fight and I agree his offense was sharper, he didn't get nearly as much as the first fight with Castillo. Truthfully though, we may not always agree even if we do like Floyd as a fighter but that is why we have this forum to express our opinions. I just happen to feel that maybe due to the shoulder injury in their first fight that Floyd didn't give his best performance and the total output of punches landed favored JLC which is why I scored it for him but IMO, Floyd left no doubts at all in the 2nd fight though it was fought at the same pace, he just created more space and landed before JLC got close and then he moved/circled away brillantly.

??? That's not nitpicking, I said they were only some examples. I'm not judging solely on his opponent's reactions to the punches, but mainly the clear look of force being dished out from his punches. Even when he moved up in weight, his punching power showed inconsistency between fights. It never looked like it truly diminished until 2009 and up, where now he's been totally noted as not being a heavy hitter, when he was noted as being one earlier then from now. (And an example of what I say people nitpicking, is they watch a fight here and there and jump to a conclusion, that's easier said and done for most fighters, but not for a fighter like Floyd... Like how I see many people on here thinking he'd lose to Trout, and before that (lol before many of y'all time when this place was clustered with anti-Floyd vs Floydiot drama), many people were saying he'd get lit up by someone like Vernon Forest. But I question these notions, because the arguments I've seen are people acting like he's never fought someone tall with a good jab before, when he actually has, see Tony Pep for example. Now people could easily say "oh who's Pep? Give me someone credible", but lol these are humans we're talking about, people don't have god damn power levels and shit rofl... Floyd does have experience against tall people with a JAB, and believe me, boy can box his ass off, wow.)

What I meant was that he just didn't become more experience in defense, it was just sharper with his game overall. Castillo tried the same shit he did in the first fight, but this time Floyd was on top of his game and made Castillo look ordinary. Idk if it really was his shoulder throwing him off, he complained about his arm hurting in the corner after the first round, so maybe so... Not saying you're one of them, but the issue I have, I've I said, is how I see so many people mention the first fight without analyzing the second fight, many even acting like the second fight never happened (but you usually see that from haters, trying to add that L there, spewing their hate and w/e).

This post has been edited by sduck: Feb 23 2013, 07:55 AM
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Posts in this topic
- BrutUalBK   Is he better now or then?? Is his legs gone?? (Floyd Mayweather)   Feb 12 2013, 06:03 PM
- - mgrover   we'll see in the Guererro fight if his legs ar...   Feb 12 2013, 06:31 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 12 2013, 07:31 PM) w...   Feb 12 2013, 06:44 PM
|- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 12 2013, 06:31 PM) w...   Feb 12 2013, 07:52 PM
- - pimpfighterROQ   Well he is 36 now. That is old in boxing standards...   Feb 12 2013, 07:04 PM
|- - daprofessor   QUOTE (pimpfighterROQ @ Feb 12 2013, 08:0...   Feb 12 2013, 07:31 PM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 12 2013, 06:03 PM)...   Feb 12 2013, 09:35 PM
|- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (checkleft @ Feb 12 2013, 09:35 PM)...   Feb 13 2013, 10:04 AM
- - mrchitown   I don't know if I'd say his legs are gone,...   Feb 12 2013, 09:59 PM
|- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (mrchitown @ Feb 12 2013, 09:59 PM)...   Feb 13 2013, 10:06 AM
- - checkleft   QUOTE (mrchitown @ Feb 12 2013, 09:59 PM)...   Feb 13 2013, 01:15 AM
- - mitukczuk   I don't understand how this can even be an iss...   Feb 13 2013, 04:04 AM
|- - mgrover   QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Feb 13 2013, 09:04 AM)...   Feb 13 2013, 08:20 AM
||- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 13 2013, 08:20 AM) I...   Feb 13 2013, 10:01 AM
|- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Feb 13 2013, 04:04 AM)...   Feb 13 2013, 10:14 AM
- - Cshel86   I'm almost convinced that Floyd fans are makin...   Feb 13 2013, 12:41 PM
|- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Feb 13 2013, 12:41 PM) 1...   Feb 13 2013, 02:16 PM
||- - bnoles4life   QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 13 2013, 02:16 PM)...   Feb 14 2013, 08:36 AM
|- - bnoles4life   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Feb 13 2013, 12:41 PM) I...   Feb 14 2013, 08:47 AM
|- - Cshel86   QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Feb 14 2013, 08:47 A...   Feb 14 2013, 09:12 AM
|- - bnoles4life   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Feb 14 2013, 09:12 AM) L...   Feb 18 2013, 10:00 AM
- - daprofessor   i'll echo what someone else said...of course h...   Feb 13 2013, 02:05 PM
- - Dolimite   If he fights toe to toe he is losing his legs, if ...   Feb 13 2013, 10:11 PM
- - Cshel86   QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 13 2013, 02:16 PM)...   Feb 14 2013, 09:05 AM
|- - Dolimite   QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Feb 14 2013, 09:05 AM) I...   Feb 14 2013, 08:18 PM
- - The Original MrFactor   The Mayweather that beat the snot out of Diego Cor...   Feb 15 2013, 03:10 PM
|- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Feb 15 2013, 0...   Feb 15 2013, 11:07 PM
|- - bnoles4life   QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 15 2013, 11:07 PM)...   Feb 19 2013, 12:31 PM
|- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Feb 19 2013, 12:31 P...   Feb 19 2013, 05:54 PM
- - neophyte7   Last I checked Floyd had both of his legs... when ...   Feb 18 2013, 07:52 PM
- - checkleft   His legs were great in the Shane fight. Watch the ...   Feb 18 2013, 09:20 PM
- - MaxPayne   I don't buy this. He was using his wheels in...   Feb 19 2013, 06:11 AM
|- - bnoles4life   QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Feb 19 2013, 06:11 AM) ...   Feb 19 2013, 12:26 PM
- - neophyte7   In boxing you don't need foot speed. You need ...   Feb 19 2013, 12:03 PM
|- - bnoles4life   QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Feb 19 2013, 12:03 PM)...   Feb 19 2013, 12:27 PM
- - sduck   Nope, nope, nope, and...NOPE! The only clear ...   Feb 22 2013, 07:23 AM
|- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (sduck @ Feb 22 2013, 07:23 AM) Nop...   Feb 22 2013, 06:44 PM
|- - Dolimite   QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 22 2013, 03:44 PM)...   Feb 22 2013, 07:25 PM
|- - sduck   QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 22 2013, 06:44 PM)...   Feb 22 2013, 09:46 PM
|- - Dolimite   QUOTE (sduck @ Feb 22 2013, 06:46 PM) I...   Feb 23 2013, 12:21 AM
|- - BrutUalBK   QUOTE (sduck @ Feb 22 2013, 09:46 PM) 1. ...   Feb 23 2013, 04:58 AM
|- - sduck   QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 23 2013, 04:58 AM)...   Feb 23 2013, 07:54 AM
- - checkleft   The reason he might have looked feather fisted in ...   Feb 23 2013, 11:17 AM


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