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> DELAHOYA SAYS MAYWEATHER AFRAID OF ALVAREZ, afraid to fight him???
Cshel86
post Apr 11 2013, 08:37 AM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 11 2013, 04:14 AM) *
He should of asked rather than demanded. Simple scenario when I was younger my dad was the hand that fed me so if I wanted something I could

A: I demand money from him and end up with a punch in the face for being disrespectful

B: I ask for some money, give him a good reason why I should have it, generally I was doing well at school, and this makes him happier.

If Canelo vs Trout was a ppv and he did good numbers and he went to Floyd can we do this, I bring in the money. I just beat the top 154lber and Floyd refused then you can male a case for Floyd ducking him. But at the moment he's averaging a C at best since he's been taking the easier tests and because of that their worth less.

MG Sr. don't play that shit!

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VJones
post Apr 11 2013, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 10 2013, 07:03 PM) *
khan is the easier fight therefore more likely.


I agree...but not that much easier. I like Khan's natural abilities and skill-set. I just think Freddie was a horrible fit. And yes, the kid's chin is kinda soft and in the past he's talked waaay too much. =) 'Nelo is too slow. He's big. He bangs. But he's not balanced...feet sometimes out of position. Did I mention slow? Lol. I actually like Khan's chances above 'Nelo's. I think speed and explosiveness is more dangerous than size. I'd like to see both fights....so we'll see.

I also think Canelo may have ruined his chance of a Mayweather fight, not because he's not fighting on the undercard, but because of his comments in the media. I think he really annoyed Floyd. But Canelo reeled it in fairly quickly once Floyd responded publicly...so who knows.

QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 11 2013, 03:14 AM) *
He should of asked rather than demanded. Simple scenario when I was younger my dad was the hand that fed me so if I wanted something I could

A: I demand money from him and end up with a punch in the face for being disrespectful

B: I ask for some money, give him a good reason why I should have it, generally I was doing well at school, and this makes him happier.

If Canelo vs Trout was a ppv and he did good numbers and he went to Floyd can we do this, I bring in the money. I just beat the top 154lber and Floyd refused then you can male a case for Floyd ducking him. But at the moment he's averaging a C at best since he's been taking the easier tests and because of that their worth less.


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KOpower
post Apr 11 2013, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 11 2013, 04:14 AM) *
He should of asked rather than demanded. Simple scenario when I was younger my dad was the hand that fed me so if I wanted something I could

A: I demand money from him and end up with a punch in the face for being disrespectful

B: I ask for some money, give him a good reason why I should have it, generally I was doing well at school, and this makes him happier.

If Canelo vs Trout was a ppv and he did good numbers and he went to Floyd can we do this, I bring in the money. I just beat the top 154lber and Floyd refused then you can male a case for Floyd ducking him. But at the moment he's averaging a C at best since he's been taking the easier tests and because of that their worth less.



Floyd is not Canelo's daddy so using you vs your father is NOT a reasonable comparison. It is rather insulting that you would make that comparison. Like I said, Canelo has a bunch of good fights available for him. If Floyd doesn't want to fight...that's fine. Canelo will go on with his career.

And I don't know how valid the "Canelo needs to prove himself in a PPV event" argument is when the guy Floyd hand-picked to fight has even less "star power" than Canelo. And who is Canelo going to fight in the fall if not Canelo? Devon Alexander? Zab Judah? Danny Garcia? Andre Berto? LoL....not a PPV star if you combined the fanbases of all 4 fighters.

I don't think Floyd is scared...but I think he has no intention of fighting in the fall. He is a once a year fighter at this point. My guess is that he fights the winner of Judah-Garcia in the fall if he happens to fight and then we may see Canelo-Floyd in May of 2014 or 2015.
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Dolimite
post Apr 12 2013, 06:35 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 11 2013, 06:43 PM) *
Floyd is not Canelo's daddy so using you vs your father is NOT a reasonable comparison. It is rather insulting that you would make that comparison. Like I said, Canelo has a bunch of good fights available for him. If Floyd doesn't want to fight...that's fine. Canelo will go on with his career.

And I don't know how valid the "Canelo needs to prove himself in a PPV event" argument is when the guy Floyd hand-picked to fight has even less "star power" than Canelo. And who is Canelo going to fight in the fall if not Canelo? Devon Alexander? Zab Judah? Danny Garcia? Andre Berto? LoL....not a PPV star if you combined the fanbases of all 4 fighters.

I don't think Floyd is scared...but I think he has no intention of fighting in the fall. He is a once a year fighter at this point. My guess is that he fights the winner of Judah-Garcia in the fall if he happens to fight and then we may see Canelo-Floyd in May of 2014 or 2015.


I hope this is a joke. Cause no one wants to see that. And who is Canelo going to fight in the fall? Surely not another jr. middle weigh. He is going to fight Keith Thurman or the winner of Broner and Paulie. Canelo has not proven himself and he will not do over 300K PPVs for his first fight. Yes he has a lot of Hispanic fans but guess what? They alone can't bring in big PPV numbers or buys. People tune in to see Mayweather and yes there was the ones who watched Saul. They did not turn off the TV after Saul fought.
Mayweather has his options at 154 and at 147. Ortiz wasn't a star and look what happen with that PPV. 1.2 or 1.3 million buys. That is pretty damn good in my opinion. Guerrero fight will do just as well. Plus Saul has to get by Austin, do not count your eggs before they hatch. WHich is what Saul seems to be doing. He is looking over Trout which he should not be doing. So if Saul loses then what?

The way he went about negotiating with Mayweather was not smart. You can not make demands we you have not earned the right to. Do not bite the hands that have fed you and gave you exposure. If Saul was not on any Mayweather cards do you honestly believe that more people would of heard of him? I think not. He should of played his part and waited his turn. I won't fight on your card unless you sign a contract to fight me in September? That is called strong arming someone and you do not strong arm someone unless you are actually holding your own and has proven that you can hold your own show with plenty of success. That is like Jermaine Jackson telling Michael Jackson to be a back up singer because Jermaine sung one verse on an album and all the sudden he should be the man! Yeah right! And before you ask what had Ortiz done to deserve a shot at Mayweather? Doesn't matter, Mayweather picked him and that is all the difference. Ortiz did not pick Mayweather it was the other way around. Saul better hope he puts on a spectacular performance or he will look like the biggest ass in all of boxing. Fuckin diva.
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KOpower
post Apr 12 2013, 11:14 AM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Apr 12 2013, 07:35 AM) *
I hope this is a joke. Cause no one wants to see that. And who is Canelo going to fight in the fall? Surely not another jr. middle weigh. He is going to fight Keith Thurman or the winner of Broner and Paulie. Canelo has not proven himself and he will not do over 300K PPVs for his first fight. Yes he has a lot of Hispanic fans but guess what? They alone can't bring in big PPV numbers or buys. People tune in to see Mayweather and yes there was the ones who watched Saul. They did not turn off the TV after Saul fought.
Mayweather has his options at 154 and at 147. Ortiz wasn't a star and look what happen with that PPV. 1.2 or 1.3 million buys. That is pretty damn good in my opinion. Guerrero fight will do just as well. Plus Saul has to get by Austin, do not count your eggs before they hatch. WHich is what Saul seems to be doing. He is looking over Trout which he should not be doing. So if Saul loses then what?

The way he went about negotiating with Mayweather was not smart. You can not make demands we you have not earned the right to. Do not bite the hands that have fed you and gave you exposure. If Saul was not on any Mayweather cards do you honestly believe that more people would of heard of him? I think not. He should of played his part and waited his turn. I won't fight on your card unless you sign a contract to fight me in September? That is called strong arming someone and you do not strong arm someone unless you are actually holding your own and has proven that you can hold your own show with plenty of success. That is like Jermaine Jackson telling Michael Jackson to be a back up singer because Jermaine sung one verse on an album and all the sudden he should be the man! Yeah right! And before you ask what had Ortiz done to deserve a shot at Mayweather? Doesn't matter, Mayweather picked him and that is all the difference. Ortiz did not pick Mayweather it was the other way around. Saul better hope he puts on a spectacular performance or he will look like the biggest ass in all of boxing. Fuckin diva.



Of course nobody wants to see Floyd vs Judah or Garcia but Floyd has never been about giving fans exciting fights. He has a guaranteed deal with Showtime so he can afford to take a joke fight against Garcia/Judah IF he were to fight a 2nd time this year. If not the Judah-Garcia winner...who? Alexander? Berto? Peterson? None of those fights are legacy-building challenges. The winner of Canelo-Trout would be but there is a 0.0% chance that Floyd fights the winner next. Heck, it would be better to see Floyd vs Manny or Martinez but that certainly won't happen. The options for Floyd that aren't named Canelo are pretty slim. Here is a realistic list...

1. Garcia/Judah winner
2. Lucas/Peterson winner
3. Amir Khan
4. Andre Berto
5. Devon Alexander
6. Paulie Malignaggi
7. Cotto rematch

Meh...NONE of those fights are appealing with the exception of maybe Amir Khan and even Khan should beat a Peterson/Ortiz/Berto/Lucas type before he gets a shot. The bottom line though is that none of those names do much. The biggest event would be a Cotto rematch...but even that seems EXTREMELY redundant and unnecessary.

Canelo has a bunch of good fights in front of him. He has Trout in a few weeks. The Angulo-Lara winner is out there. I think a Mexican Independence day fight against Cotto would be a BIG draw. Those are 3 154 pound fights that can happen. They you have a few 147 fighters that could move up and those names have already been discussed. Canelo just 23, so he isn't in the final few fights of his career like Mayweather is.

This post has been edited by KOpower: Apr 12 2013, 11:17 AM
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checkleft
post Apr 12 2013, 11:21 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 12 2013, 12:14 PM) *
Of course nobody wants to see Floyd vs Judah or Garcia but Floyd has never been about giving fans exciting fights. He has a guaranteed deal with Showtime so he can afford to take a joke fight against Garcia/Judah IF he were to fight a 2nd time this year. If not the Judah-Garcia winner...who? Alexander? Berto? Peterson? None of those fights are legacy-building challenges. The winner of Canelo-Trout would be but there is a 0.0% chance that Floyd fights the winner next. Heck, it would be better to see Floyd vs Manny or Martinez but that certainly won't happen. The options for Floyd that aren't named Canelo are pretty slim. Here is a realistic list...

1. Garcia/Judah winner
2. Lucas/Peterson winner
3. Amir Khan
4. Andre Berto
5. Devon Alexander
6. Paulie Malignaggi
7. Cotto rematch

Meh...NONE of those fights are appealing with the exception of maybe Amir Khan and even Khan should beat a Peterson/Ortiz/Berto/Lucas type before he gets a shot. The bottom line though is that none of those names do much. The biggest event would be a Cotto rematch...but even that seems EXTREMELY redundant and unnecessary.

Canelo has a bunch of good fights in front of him. He has Trout in a few weeks. The Angulo-Lara winner is out there. I think a Mexican Independence day fight against Cotto would be a BIG draw. Those are 3 154 pound fights that can happen. They you have a few 147 fighters that could move up and those names have already been discussed. Canelo just 23, so he isn't in the final few fights of his career like Mayweather is.

"Canelo can't make demands". I keep hearing this but you forget that someone was asking something of Canelo first. It's not like Canelo bum-rushed a Mayweather event demanding Floyd sign a contract. He was asked about fighting on Floyd's undercard. He said ONLY if Floyd signs a contract. How is that such a big mistake? Is it really that different if Canelo simply says no? I don't think so. The notion that Canelo should continue to fight on Floyd's undercard is insane. Canelo is NOT a Mayweather promotions fighter. He can go out to Texas and put on his own event and have his own night and get paid more money in the process...so why in the bloody hell would he continue to fight on Floyd's undercards when it is clear that Floyd has no immediate intention of fighting him?

And if fighting on Floyd's undercard is such an honor, why couldn't they get Broner to do it? Why couldn't they get Cotto to do it? Why couldn't they get Lucas/Peterson? Why is Canelo the only big name fighter to appear on Floyd's undercards?


It's like talking to a wall. Here you are defending Canelo and yet your talking about Floyd taking joke fights?? Talk about hypocrisy.

That's the problem with boxing fans these days, they don't want to see people earn big fights. Again, who has Canelo fought (top ten in his weight class or p4p) that warrants him asking for a mayweather fight? Cause you keep posting but you don't answer the question.
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Dolimite
post Apr 12 2013, 11:28 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 12 2013, 08:14 AM) *
Of course nobody wants to see Floyd vs Judah or Garcia but Floyd has never been about giving fans exciting fights. He has a guaranteed deal with Showtime so he can afford to take a joke fight against Garcia/Judah IF he were to fight a 2nd time this year. If not the Judah-Garcia winner...who? Alexander? Berto? Peterson? None of those fights are legacy-building challenges. The winner of Canelo-Trout would be but there is a 0.0% chance that Floyd fights the winner next. Heck, it would be better to see Floyd vs Manny or Martinez but that certainly won't happen. The options for Floyd that aren't named Canelo are pretty slim. Here is a realistic list...

1. Garcia/Judah winner
2. Lucas/Peterson winner
3. Amir Khan
4. Andre Berto
5. Devon Alexander
6. Paulie Malignaggi
7. Cotto rematch

Meh...NONE of those fights are appealing with the exception of maybe Amir Khan and even Khan should beat a Peterson/Ortiz/Berto/Lucas type before he gets a shot. The bottom line though is that none of those names do much. The biggest event would be a Cotto rematch...but even that seems EXTREMELY redundant and unnecessary.

Canelo has a bunch of good fights in front of him. He has Trout in a few weeks. The Angulo-Lara winner is out there. I think a Mexican Independence day fight against Cotto would be a BIG draw. Those are 3 154 pound fights that can happen. They you have a few 147 fighters that could move up and those names have already been discussed. Canelo just 23, so he isn't in the final few fights of his career like Mayweather is.

Alvarez is fighting his FIRST Jr. Middle weigh fighter, you do realize that? He has been avoiding competition in his weigh class for a very long time. The people you listed on the list to fight Floyd are mostly Jr. welter weighs which wouldn't make sense. Peterson fight would actually be very interesting. Khan one hit to his chin and he is done. He is not fighting Swift or Judah he already beat Judah convincingly. So that is a no go. And why wouldn't he fight the winner of Alvarez or Trout? I guess you think he is scared of both men? And Alvarez would never fight Lara, he would smoke his ass like a Hillshirer Hot dog, Lara that is.
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KOpower
post Apr 12 2013, 11:34 AM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Apr 12 2013, 07:35 AM) *
The way he went about negotiating with Mayweather was not smart. You can not make demands we you have not earned the right to. Do not bite the hands that have fed you and gave you exposure. If Saul was not on any Mayweather cards do you honestly believe that more people would of heard of him? I think not. He should of played his part and waited his turn. I won't fight on your card unless you sign a contract to fight me in September? That is called strong arming someone and you do not strong arm someone unless you are actually holding your own and has proven that you can hold your own show with plenty of success. That is like Jermaine Jackson telling Michael Jackson to be a back up singer because Jermaine sung one verse on an album and all the sudden he should be the man! Yeah right! And before you ask what had Ortiz done to deserve a shot at Mayweather? Doesn't matter, Mayweather picked him and that is all the difference. Ortiz did not pick Mayweather it was the other way around. Saul better hope he puts on a spectacular performance or he will look like the biggest ass in all of boxing. Fuckin diva.



I don't think you understand what happened. Let me try to explain this to you...

1. Canelo didn't start out by demanding Mayweather fight him in September. Canelo was approached by GBP and Mayweather Promotions about fighting on Mayweather's May 4th undercard. That was a very reasonable request by GBP and MP b/c Canelo had fought on the last 2 Mayweather cards.

2. Canelo knew he was going to fight a really good opponent. Like everyone said, he needed to step up in class and fight a legit 154 pounder. Canelo declided to not only fight a good 154 pounder, he decided to fight the BEST.

3. So here you have Canelo about to fight in the biggest fight of his career being asked if he wants to put that fight on Mayweather's undercard. Obviously you would rather have that be a stand-alone event. Canelo-Trout is a big fight...one of the 5 biggest fights of the year...so Canelo knows his own show in Texas would do well. It would sell tickets and give him an entire event to himself. At this point the fight with Trout is too big to be an undercard fight. Canelo decided that he wanted his own event.

4. But Canelo isn't dumb, instead of just saying no and ignoring GBP and MP, he decides to make a counter-offer. Mayweather had been teasing Canelo with a possible shot in a mega-fight for 2 years now. Canelo decided it was put up or shut up time. He called Mayweather's bluff. So he said that he wanted something in writing guaranteeing him a shot at Mayweather in September IF they both won. Then he would bring the Trout fight to Mayweather's undercard.

5. Mayweather declined.


My question is what is so unreasonable about all of that? Canelo-Trout is not an undercard fight. It just isn't. At this point in his career Canelo isn't an undercard fighter, either. That is shown by the ticket sales for Canelo-Trout. I read an article a few weeks ago where almost 30,000 tickets had been sold. That alone is a good reason NOT to have that fight on an undercard. Canelo was a man and moved on with a GREAT fight and made his own card. He stepped out of Mayweather's shadow to put on his own event. Isn't that what we want from our fighters?
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Dolimite
post Apr 12 2013, 11:47 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 12 2013, 09:34 AM) *
I don't think you understand what happened. Let me try to explain this to you...

1. Canelo didn't start out by demanding Mayweather fight him in September. Canelo was approached by GBP and Mayweather Promotions about fighting on Mayweather's May 4th undercard. That was a very reasonable request by GBP and MP b/c Canelo had fought on the last 2 Mayweather cards.

2. Canelo knew he was going to fight a really good opponent. Like everyone said, he needed to step up in class and fight a legit 154 pounder. Canelo declided to not only fight a good 154 pounder, he decided to fight the BEST.

3. So here you have Canelo about to fight in the biggest fight of his career being asked if he wants to put that fight on Mayweather's undercard. Obviously you would rather have that be a stand-alone event. Canelo-Trout is a big fight...one of the 5 biggest fights of the year...so Canelo knows his own show in Texas would do well. It would sell tickets and give him an entire event to himself. At this point the fight with Trout is too big to be an undercard fight. Canelo decided that he wanted his own event.

4. But Canelo isn't dumb, instead of just saying no and ignoring GBP and MP, he decides to make a counter-offer. Mayweather had been teasing Canelo with a possible shot in a mega-fight for 2 years now. Canelo decided it was put up or shut up time. He called Mayweather's bluff. So he said that he wanted something in writing guaranteeing him a shot at Mayweather in September IF they both won. Then he would bring the Trout fight to Mayweather's undercard.

5. Mayweather declined.


My question is what is so unreasonable about all of that? Canelo-Trout is not an undercard fight. It just isn't. At this point in his career Canelo isn't an undercard fighter, either. That is shown by the ticket sales for Canelo-Trout. I read an article a few weeks ago where almost 30,000 tickets had been sold. That alone is a good reason NOT to have that fight on an undercard. Canelo was a man and moved on with a GREAT fight and made his own card. He stepped out of Mayweather's shadow to put on his own event. Isn't that what we want from our fighters?


Since when did Alvarez start calling shots in his own career? He has been doing what GB has been telling him to do since day 1! You act like Saul is the most sought after co-event fighter. Trout and Alvarez would have been damn good on the undercard, it would of gotten more exposure than it is getting now. SInce the fight of this magnitude is so big and large, why haven't I seen one damn commercial or even hear anyone talking about it outside of real boxing fans. A lot people never even heard of Alvarez, he is big in Mexico and Hispanic Americans but guess what? We are in America and yes we have a large Spanish population but guess there are other fight fans who watch boxing instead of them. Plus year ago Oscar even said Alvarez was not ready for Floyd even Alvarez himself had hinted tot he same conclusion. I never heard Mayweather even mention Alvarez's name within the last two years. And tickets started off at 10 dollars! Of course people are going to buy a boxing match ticket for 10 dollars! Again, until Alvarez wins a legit belt and fights stiffer competition he should not be barking at the big dog in the sport. He can't demand shit. He can't even demand to take shit when it comes to Mayweather. When has Mayweather ever sign a fight when he is already fighting someone else? he has never done that in his 17 year career as a boxer. All of a sudden he is suppose to change his tune for someone who has yet to do a damn thing in his own weigh division? He bit the hand that gave him exposure. Let's be honest.
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KOpower
post Apr 12 2013, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Apr 12 2013, 12:47 PM) *
Since when did Alvarez start calling shots in his own career? He has been doing what GB has been telling him to do since day 1! You act like Saul is the most sought after co-event fighter. Trout and Alvarez would have been damn good on the undercard, it would of gotten more exposure than it is getting now. SInce the fight of this magnitude is so big and large, why haven't I seen one damn commercial or even hear anyone talking about it outside of real boxing fans. A lot people never even heard of Alvarez, he is big in Mexico and Hispanic Americans but guess what? We are in America and yes we have a large Spanish population but guess there are other fight fans who watch boxing instead of them. Plus year ago Oscar even said Alvarez was not ready for Floyd even Alvarez himself had hinted tot he same conclusion. I never heard Mayweather even mention Alvarez's name within the last two years. And tickets started off at 10 dollars! Of course people are going to buy a boxing match ticket for 10 dollars! Again, until Alvarez wins a legit belt and fights stiffer competition he should not be barking at the big dog in the sport. He can't demand shit. He can't even demand to take shit when it comes to Mayweather. When has Mayweather ever sign a fight when he is already fighting someone else? he has never done that in his 17 year career as a boxer. All of a sudden he is suppose to change his tune for someone who has yet to do a damn thing in his own weigh division? He bit the hand that gave him exposure. Let's be honest.


If he hasn't been calling his shots on his own career before then he certainly is now. GBP did not want him to fight Trout, but Canelo had the balls to step up and do it. I think that is a good thing and I can't imagine you think it is a bad thing. He is only 22, but if he can start calling shots in his own career at a young age then you are better off doing it. I think we can all agree that Canelo taking the Trout fight against GBP's wishes is a GOOD thing.

Canelo vs Trout would have been the biggest true undercard fight that I can ever remember. Can you think of one better? One that means more? A young potential star against the best fighter in his class? This would be like Fernando Vargas vs Winky Wright had Winky beaten Mosley the fight before facing Vargas. Everyone knew Trout was dangerous...he proved it and got more name value by handling Cotto the way Wright handled Mosley.

There are only 3 ways Canelo could have handled the Floyd offer...


1. Turn it down and just ignore Mayweather Promotions and move on to your own fight with Trout

2. Make a counter-offer, knowing that if Floyd turned it down then you will move on to make your own fight with Trout

3. Accept the undercard offer, continue to try and live off of Floyd's fame, and turn down your own event with Trout while likely taking less money in the process. You also turn down a chance to fight in front of 30,000-40,000 people that are there to see YOU.

The only real options are 1 and 2. I guess you are insulted that Canelo even came back with a counter-offer. Ok...I am not. I honestly would think that you wouldn't be that sensitive about it. Boxing is a business...remember?


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