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Jack 1000
post May 5 2013, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (neophyte7 @ May 5 2013, 01:57 PM) *
It can be CANELO... JUST funny to see what people will say about canelo being the one to remove his 0 etc... Bottom line. .this guy Floyd is the michaal jordan of this shit.. guys like him, hopkins.. they are enigmas... something special like it or not. Sure Canelo.. another pay day for Floyd and if it happens in September unless Floyd hurts his hand-- red head fat ass gets stopped... Canelo owes a rematch to Trout. but hey if he wants a september ass whipping I will pay for it


+1!

Jack
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KOpower
post May 5 2013, 09:39 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ May 5 2013, 08:03 PM) *
If you are asking me then I'm laughing just as hard as you and wondering the same but talk to the guy who started talking about Canelo's red hair making him so different and maybe he'll sh@t out an answer for us but mind you, it will come from outta his anus so you know it's going to be an answer that is full of sh@t. LOL


But again, you laugh at Canelo but don't give me any names for who he SHOULD fight. If Canelo is such easy work, why not make the fight as it is easily the highest profile/biggest money event out there not counting Pac?

Again...I want to see Floyd challenge himself in the next 5 fights/3 years. This is his last chance to show us why he should be considered Top-10/GOAT P4P fighter. He NEEDS the big challenges/big events. The ironic thing is that there is a path right there for him to take. It is risky and challenging but in order to be remembered the way you want to be remembered after your bones have turned to ash then you HAVE to take those risks. I will even post a VERY reasonable path to take....


1. You start off with a fight against Canelo Alvarez. That is the biggest event that can be made right now. Canelo is a young lion with very good hand speed and good power. He is coming off of an impressive victory and he is certainly considered the best at 154 (not counting Floyd). The danger with Canelo is that he is naturally the bigger man, but he will be right in front of Floyd all night so I think Mayweather can pot-shot him and take a UD in a fight that is very similar to the one he had with Miguel Cotto.


2. Fresh off the win against Canelo, Mayweather goes out and makes the fight that everyone wants for May of 2014. We FINALLY see the Manny Pacquiao fight. Think it is impossible? It isn't. If Lewis-Tyson can get made then so can this. Manny has already come out and said he still wants the fight, will take any test in the world that Floyd wants, and he would give up a 60-40 split. If Mayweather wants more, I am sure a 65-35 split can be made. That is very reasonable considering how many eyes Manny brings in. Manny would also be coming off what will surely be an impressive KO win over Brandon Rios. That gets the Pac-train rolling again and all of a sudden we have the showdown that we ALL want. Mayweather vs Pac, GBP vs Top Rank, Showtime vs HBO, etc. That would be the biggest fight of this era. I also think it is a fight Mayweather would win, but Pac would make it VERY interesting.


3. Mayweather could take some extra time off and then come back in December of 2014. That would be roughly 18 months from today and by that time one of Danny Garcia/Lamont Peterson/Amir Khan/Lucas Matthyse/Devon Alexander will be proven enough/on a strong roll for a Mayweather fight. IMO this fight is EASY work for Floyd, but at least the fighter will be proven and worthy.


4. In May of 2015 I think Broner will be ready. Mayweather will be winding down and Broner, hopefully, will be coming on. This would be a GREAT student/teacher fight. How great would it be for Floyd, at age 38, to face a guy like Broner? To BEAT a guy like Broner? That is the type of fight that could cement his legacy as a Top-5 P4P fighter of All-Time. Which finally leads us to....


5. For Floyd's final fight in the fall/winter of 2015, he can move up in weight (catch-weight maybe??) against any MW/SMW that is willing to meet Floyd for a massive payday. Maybe Ward, GGG, Martinez, or someone that emerges over the next few years. This would be the ultimate high-reward/low-risk fight for Money. He would probably be an underdog but it would give him the chance to put a convincing stamp on his career...a p4p #1 type of stamp. I think Floyd could do it as well. I think he could beat an elite MW/SMW if they met at the right weight. It would be complicated and probably a fantasy, but you never know.


Now all of those fights won't happen, but #1, #2, and #4 could all reasonably happen and it would really go a long way toward helping us find out if Floud is really a P4P GOAT...and imo that is what he SHOULD be fighting for. He has cemented his status as the best fighter of this era...the post RJJ era. He is already an easy Top-20 P4P guy and he may be on the fringe of the Top-10. The schedule above would put him in the conversation for #1. Isn't that would Floyd should be doing? Did you guys see the 4 names being talked about for his next fight? Spadafora, Ortiz, Garcia, Khan. Is that Mayweather worthy? How do any of those names add to his legacy? Those fights are BENEATH Floyd, it is just up to Floyd to understand that and begin to really make the fights that will prove he is p4p #1 of All-Time.


We always ask more from our truly great athletes. Floyd has taken a fairly cautious path for his entire career. It is time for him to make the fights that really matter. It is time for him to make legcay fights. If he doesn't start now, he is sadly selling himself short. For as confident as Mayweather appears to be on the outside, the refusal to take a difficult path over the next 5 fights would be shocking.
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BrutUalBK
post May 5 2013, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ May 5 2013, 09:39 PM) *
But again, you laugh at Canelo but don't give me any names for who he SHOULD fight. If Canelo is such easy work, why not make the fight as it is easily the highest profile/biggest money event out there not counting Pac?

Again...I want to see Floyd challenge himself in the next 5 fights/3 years. This is his last chance to show us why he should be considered Top-10/GOAT P4P fighter. He NEEDS the big challenges/big events. The ironic thing is that there is a path right there for him to take. It is risky and challenging but in order to be remembered the way you want to be remembered after your bones have turned to ash then you HAVE to take those risks. I will even post a VERY reasonable path to take....


1. You start off with a fight against Canelo Alvarez. That is the biggest event that can be made right now. Canelo is a young lion with very good hand speed and good power. He is coming off of an impressive victory and he is certainly considered the best at 154 (not counting Floyd). The danger with Canelo is that he is naturally the bigger man, but he will be right in front of Floyd all night so I think Mayweather can pot-shot him and take a UD in a fight that is very similar to the one he had with Miguel Cotto.


2. Fresh off the win against Canelo, Mayweather goes out and makes the fight that everyone wants for May of 2014. We FINALLY see the Manny Pacquiao fight. Think it is impossible? It isn't. If Lewis-Tyson can get made then so can this. Manny has already come out and said he still wants the fight, will take any test in the world that Floyd wants, and he would give up a 60-40 split. If Mayweather wants more, I am sure a 65-35 split can be made. That is very reasonable considering how many eyes Manny brings in. Manny would also be coming off what will surely be an impressive KO win over Brandon Rios. That gets the Pac-train rolling again and all of a sudden we have the showdown that we ALL want. Mayweather vs Pac, GBP vs Top Rank, Showtime vs HBO, etc. That would be the biggest fight of this era. I also think it is a fight Mayweather would win, but Pac would make it VERY interesting.


3. Mayweather could take some extra time off and then come back in December of 2014. That would be roughly 18 months from today and by that time one of Danny Garcia/Lamont Peterson/Amir Khan/Lucas Matthyse/Devon Alexander will be proven enough/on a strong roll for a Mayweather fight. IMO this fight is EASY work for Floyd, but at least the fighter will be proven and worthy.


4. In May of 2015 I think Broner will be ready. Mayweather will be winding down and Broner, hopefully, will be coming on. This would be a GREAT student/teacher fight. How great would it be for Floyd, at age 38, to face a guy like Broner? To BEAT a guy like Broner? That is the type of fight that could cement his legacy as a Top-5 P4P fighter of All-Time. Which finally leads us to....


5. For Floyd's final fight in the fall/winter of 2015, he can move up in weight (catch-weight maybe??) against any MW/SMW that is willing to meet Floyd for a massive payday. Maybe Ward, GGG, Martinez, or someone that emerges over the next few years. This would be the ultimate high-reward/low-risk fight for Money. He would probably be an underdog but it would give him the chance to put a convincing stamp on his career...a p4p #1 type of stamp. I think Floyd could do it as well. I think he could beat an elite MW/SMW if they met at the right weight. It would be complicated and probably a fantasy, but you never know.


Now all of those fights won't happen, but #1, #2, and #4 could all reasonably happen and it would really go a long way toward helping us find out if Floud is really a P4P GOAT...and imo that is what he SHOULD be fighting for. He has cemented his status as the best fighter of this era...the post RJJ era. He is already an easy Top-20 P4P guy and he may be on the fringe of the Top-10. The schedule above would put him in the conversation for #1. Isn't that would Floyd should be doing? Did you guys see the 4 names being talked about for his next fight? Spadafora, Ortiz, Garcia, Khan. Is that Mayweather worthy? How do any of those names add to his legacy? Those fights are BENEATH Floyd, it is just up to Floyd to understand that and begin to really make the fights that will prove he is p4p #1 of All-Time.


We always ask more from our truly great athletes. Floyd has taken a fairly cautious path for his entire career. It is time for him to make the fights that really matter. It is time for him to make legcay fights. If he doesn't start now, he is sadly selling himself short. For as confident as Mayweather appears to be on the outside, the refusal to take a difficult path over the next 5 fights would be shocking.



What is this about Floyd needing to challenge himself? First off, I was responding to another person here claiming that Alvarez is so great and make it as though May is ducking him, second I think Money has already challenged himself, he moved up from 130 and has been dominating bigger fighters since then without a loss. So what that he doesn't knock them all out.

As far as your post about Manny P, he is old news and if the fight was going to be made then it would've already have been but thanks to Arum and the lack of understanding of the boxing public as to why this fight hasn't and never will be made as long as he (Bob) is in the picture then we can all keep dreaming and continue to blame Money as to why the fight not happened then that is our prerogative.

Beating Rios or Alvarado will not put Pac inline for a fight with Floyd, Mayweather already told him that he needs to beat JMM and Bradley (which is the order rightfully so) in order to get a shot at him, that isn't ducking/this is boxing and that is the way it goes.

As far as fighting Martinez and GGG who are far bigger than Money who barely makes 152 for a fight at the Jr MW limit then the only way that happens is that they fight him at a CW because they are both far bigger and on fight night would be even higher than Money who will likely drop as he usually does when fighting at 154 on fight night.

Money should finish off his career with more realistic fights like Trout, Alexander, Alvarez; he doesn't really need either of them to make it into the HOF but you're right-he does need a fight with a bigger guy like Martinez or GGG but the truth is that neither will never happen.

I'm not against a fight with Canelo but I just happen to believe that he is far overrated and is not ready for Money; Alexander is far more ready though he is smaller and so is Bradley which I find that they are both far more deserving.



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Jack 1000
post May 5 2013, 10:14 PM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ May 5 2013, 09:39 PM) *
But again, you laugh at Canelo but don't give me any names for who he SHOULD fight. If Canelo is such easy work, why not make the fight as it is easily the highest profile/biggest money event out there not counting Pac?

Again...I want to see Floyd challenge himself in the next 5 fights/3 years. This is his last chance to show us why he should be considered Top-10/GOAT P4P fighter. He NEEDS the big challenges/big events. The ironic thing is that there is a path right there for him to take. It is risky and challenging but in order to be remembered the way you want to be remembered after your bones have turned to ash then you HAVE to take those risks. I will even post a VERY reasonable path to take....


1. You start off with a fight against Canelo Alvarez. That is the biggest event that can be made right now. Canelo is a young lion with very good hand speed and good power. He is coming off of an impressive victory and he is certainly considered the best at 154 (not counting Floyd). The danger with Canelo is that he is naturally the bigger man, but he will be right in front of Floyd all night so I think Mayweather can pot-shot him and take a UD in a fight that is very similar to the one he had with Miguel Cotto.


2. Fresh off the win against Canelo, Mayweather goes out and makes the fight that everyone wants for May of 2014. We FINALLY see the Manny Pacquiao fight. Think it is impossible? It isn't. If Lewis-Tyson can get made then so can this. Manny has already come out and said he still wants the fight, will take any test in the world that Floyd wants, and he would give up a 60-40 split. If Mayweather wants more, I am sure a 65-35 split can be made. That is very reasonable considering how many eyes Manny brings in. Manny would also be coming off what will surely be an impressive KO win over Brandon Rios. That gets the Pac-train rolling again and all of a sudden we have the showdown that we ALL want. Mayweather vs Pac, GBP vs Top Rank, Showtime vs HBO, etc. That would be the biggest fight of this era. I also think it is a fight Mayweather would win, but Pac would make it VERY interesting.


3. Mayweather could take some extra time off and then come back in December of 2014. That would be roughly 18 months from today and by that time one of Danny Garcia/Lamont Peterson/Amir Khan/Lucas Matthyse/Devon Alexander will be proven enough/on a strong roll for a Mayweather fight. IMO this fight is EASY work for Floyd, but at least the fighter will be proven and worthy.


4. In May of 2015 I think Broner will be ready. Mayweather will be winding down and Broner, hopefully, will be coming on. This would be a GREAT student/teacher fight. How great would it be for Floyd, at age 38, to face a guy like Broner? To BEAT a guy like Broner? That is the type of fight that could cement his legacy as a Top-5 P4P fighter of All-Time. Which finally leads us to....


5. For Floyd's final fight in the fall/winter of 2015, he can move up in weight (catch-weight maybe??) against any MW/SMW that is willing to meet Floyd for a massive payday. Maybe Ward, GGG, Martinez, or someone that emerges over the next few years. This would be the ultimate high-reward/low-risk fight for Money. He would probably be an underdog but it would give him the chance to put a convincing stamp on his career...a p4p #1 type of stamp. I think Floyd could do it as well. I think he could beat an elite MW/SMW if they met at the right weight. It would be complicated and probably a fantasy, but you never know.


Now all of those fights won't happen, but #1, #2, and #4 could all reasonably happen and it would really go a long way toward helping us find out if Floud is really a P4P GOAT...and imo that is what he SHOULD be fighting for. He has cemented his status as the best fighter of this era...the post RJJ era. He is already an easy Top-20 P4P guy and he may be on the fringe of the Top-10. The schedule above would put him in the conversation for #1. Isn't that would Floyd should be doing? Did you guys see the 4 names being talked about for his next fight? Spadafora, Ortiz, Garcia, Khan. Is that Mayweather worthy? How do any of those names add to his legacy? Those fights are BENEATH Floyd, it is just up to Floyd to understand that and begin to really make the fights that will prove he is p4p #1 of All-Time.


We always ask more from our truly great athletes. Floyd has taken a fairly cautious path for his entire career. It is time for him to make the fights that really matter. It is time for him to make legcay fights. If he doesn't start now, he is sadly selling himself short. For as confident as Mayweather appears to be on the outside, the refusal to take a difficult path over the next 5 fights would be shocking.


Paul Sapadafora? Didn't he retire like years ago and have one comback? I hope that is NOT on Floyd's agenda? I don't think Ortiz, Garcia, or Khan are Mayweaather worthy. They don't challenge him, they don't prove a thing.

Jack
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KOpower
post May 5 2013, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ May 5 2013, 11:09 PM) *
What is this about Floyd needing to challenge himself? First off, I was responding to another person here claiming that Alvarez is so great and make it as though May is ducking him, second I think Money has already challenged himself, he moved up from 130 and has been dominating bigger fighters since then without a loss. So what that he doesn't knock them all out.

As far as your post about Manny P, he is old news and if the fight was going to be made then it would've already have been but thanks to Arum and the lack of understanding of the boxing public as to why this fight hasn't and never will be made as long as he (Bob) is in the picture then we can all keep dreaming and continue to blame Money as to why the fight not happened then that is our prerogative.

Beating Rios or Alvarado will not put Pac inline for a fight with Floyd, Mayweather already told him that he needs to beat JMM and Bradley (which is the order rightfully so) in order to get a shot at him, that isn't ducking/this is boxing and that is the way it goes.

As far as fighting Martinez and GGG who are far bigger than Money who barely makes 152 for a fight at the Jr MW limit then the only way that happens is that they fight him at a CW because they are both far bigger and on fight night would be even higher than Money who will likely drop as he usually does when fighting at 154 on fight night.

Money should finish off his career with more realistic fights like Trout, Alexander, Alvarez; he doesn't really need either of them to make it into the HOF but you're right-he does need a fight with a bigger guy like Martinez or GGG but the truth is that neither will never happen.

I'm not against a fight with Canelo but I just happen to believe that he is far overrated and is not ready for Money; Alexander is far more ready though he is smaller and so is Bradley which I find that they are both far more deserving.



1. Mayweather has obviously fought a bunch of world-class fighters, but even now nobody considers him as one of the greatest of All-Time. How do you rectify that? By making the biggest fights out there NOW. Mayweather has not done that as of late. That is what I mean when I say challenge yourself.

2. I am not interested in getting into a who was at fault debate regarding Pac vs Floyd. You are a Floyd fan and you think the only reason people feel Pac was a great fighter is because the casual fans "don't understand boxing". It is all Arum's fault and no blame rests in Floyd's lap. I will say that I disagree with you and we will leave it at that. There is NO debate that Floyd-Pac is STILL the fight that the majority wants to see and it is a fight that can STILL be made, provided Pac dominates Rios the way he should in the fall.

3. Floyd just fought Roget Guerrero....a Robert Guerrero that literally had 1 key win and that was over an Andre Berto that couldn't even deal with Victor Ortiz. Manny does not "need to beat JMM and then Tim Bradley" to get a shot with Mayweather. If that is really Mayweather's honest stance, and not just a stunt, it is very disappointing to hear b/c that is certainly not the standard he keeps for his other fighters. Didn't he fight Judah after he lost to Baldomir?

4. If Mayweather doesn't make the big fights, and you seem to have doubts, then that will be extremely disappointing to me as a fan of boxing. At that point Floyd would go down as one of the best ever, but a fighter that never quite felt comfortable enough in his own skin to really risk something. That will keep people from remembering him as an All-Time legend....which sucks because I do think he is capable of being one of the best of All-Time. I just don't know if he has the mentality...the toughness...to go out and make the fights that matter.
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checkleft
post May 5 2013, 10:39 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ May 5 2013, 11:18 AM) *
Why are people so sold into the hype of Canelo? I still don't see anywhere he could beat Floyd, the guy (Saul) was getting handled by a lighter punching Trout-when Austin went to the body of Canelo it slowed him down and he started to showboat his way out of it. I can guarantee you that when Floyd goes to his body and starts to break him down that if he tries that foolishness with Money that he will get stopped and won't be able to con his way out of getting hit the way he was able to do with Trout.

Canelo has huge holes in his so called "underrated" defense, his punching power is highly overrated; he hit Shane with everything but the kitchen sink and wasn't able to knock him down but yet Pac was able to (so much for his great punching power) and he hit Josesito to the body with numerous punches before he finally stopped him so I don't see this one punch Julian Jackson type power that this hyped kid is supposed to possess.

The stamina issues have to be resolved long before he steps in the ring with Floyd because when this kid starts dying trying to catch his second wind that'll be the time when Floyd is ready to step on the gas and turn up the heat, huh Canelo Alvarez (did I read that someone pointed out his red hair as a difference)?

He's going to need a lot more than just being a different opponent than Guerrero, he's going to need intelligence, speed, stamina and the ability to take bodyshots before thinking he can beat Floyd.

Anyone who thinks this guy has a shot obviously knows very little about this sport and these two fighters, this is my professional analysis of Canelo.

Good post.

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KOpower
post May 5 2013, 10:40 PM
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What makes Devon Alexander ready for a Floyd fight and not Canelo? What does Devon Alexander have that makes him more of a threat? I am really curious to hear this. Alexander is the smaller man while Canelo is the larger man. Canelo's win over Trout was more impressive than Alexander's win over Lucas. Canelo is considered the best of the best at 154 while Alexander is probably in the bottom of the Top-10 of the 147 pounders. Floyd-Alexander is an incredibly boring, easy win for Money.
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BrutUalBK
post May 5 2013, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ May 5 2013, 10:34 PM) *
1. Mayweather has obviously fought a bunch of world-class fighters, but even now nobody considers him as one of the greatest of All-Time. How do you rectify that? By making the biggest fights out there NOW. Mayweather has not done that as of late. That is what I mean when I say challenge yourself.

2. I am not interested in getting into a who was at fault debate regarding Pac vs Floyd. You are a Floyd fan and you think the only reason people feel Pac was a great fighter is because the casual fans "don't understand boxing". It is all Arum's fault and no blame rests in Floyd's lap. I will say that I disagree with you and we will leave it at that. There is NO debate that Floyd-Pac is STILL the fight that the majority wants to see and it is a fight that can STILL be made, provided Pac dominates Rios the way he should in the fall.

3. Floyd just fought Roget Guerrero....a Robert Guerrero that literally had 1 key win and that was over an Andre Berto that couldn't even deal with Victor Ortiz. Manny does not "need to beat JMM and then Tim Bradley" to get a shot with Mayweather. If that is really Mayweather's honest stance, and not just a stunt, it is very disappointing to hear b/c that is certainly not the standard he keeps for his other fighters. Didn't he fight Judah after he lost to Baldomir?

4. If Mayweather doesn't make the big fights, and you seem to have doubts, then that will be extremely disappointing to me as a fan of boxing. At that point Floyd would go down as one of the best ever, but a fighter that never quite felt comfortable enough in his own skin to really risk something. That will keep people from remembering him as an All-Time legend....which sucks because I do think he is capable of being one of the best of All-Time. I just don't know if he has the mentality...the toughness...to go out and make the fights that matter.



1. I never said he was one of the GOATS, did I?? Who is this biggest fight out there? Canelo? He hasn't even clearly said he wanted a fight with Floyd, when he was asked after the Trout fight he stuttered and never mentioned he wanted that fight, personally with all of his flaws I don't see him as ready.

2. I never said that you don't understand boxing, you just don't understand the situation as to why the fight never happened and yes, it is totally Arum's fault whether you accept that or not then you need to do more research to understand why. Here read this and then we can talk about it: http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content11512.html

3. Again, that is your opinion on what you think Manny needs and doesn't need to do to get a fight with Floyd, this is boxing and that is how it works; Money is in the driver's seat and always has been but he doesn't control Pac-Arum does.

4. You claim he didn't risk something when I've stated the man has come from 130 to 154 that is a 24 lb jump and still that isn't enough risk for you, then you sir have a problem with risk comprehension and do not understand what Risks is really all about. It is very ironic that Mayweather is held to a different/higher standard by you and that he has to move to 160 just to get your so called "blessing" as one of the GOATS but I believe history will end up being kind to the little guy who not only moved up but dominated every fighter he has faced since moving up.

Yes beating SM would make him a legendary fighter in the vain of Ali or SRL but let's be honest; do you really expect SM to duck GGG and come down to fight Floyd at a CW which the fight would certainly need to be in order for that to happen?? How about GGG, who has he beaten in all honesty to deserve a shot at Floyd? Just because he is bigger he has to be one of the fighters to beat in order for May to make the GOAT status??

Where is the logic in any of this reasoning??
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The Original MrF...
post May 6 2013, 12:18 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ May 5 2013, 11:40 PM) *
What makes Devon Alexander ready for a Floyd fight and not Canelo? What does Devon Alexander have that makes him more of a threat? I am really curious to hear this. Alexander is the smaller man while Canelo is the larger man. Canelo's win over Trout was more impressive than Alexander's win over Lucas. Canelo is considered the best of the best at 154 while Alexander is probably in the bottom of the Top-10 of the 147 pounders. Floyd-Alexander is an incredibly boring, easy win for Money.



You klnow Alexander got a gift over Lucas. I think you pose a great question. I'll try to answer it. Maybe its that sound Devon makes when he throws a punch. Or maybe its the fact that he speaks great English. Many of these guys would rather see the Yankees play a high school team so that they can claim the Yankees are the best. These guys must hate to see the Yanks play the redsox. Buncha Miami heat fans up in here...LOL!
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sduck
post May 6 2013, 03:41 AM
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lol I've been saying this shit for awhile now, that Sergio Martinez and Manny Pacquiao would be easy fights, and people would look at me like I'm speaking out of my ass. I call it like I see it, and the fight with Guerrero just further proves my point. I think Martinez and Pacquiao would be easier fights than Canelo, but Canelo would also be an easy fight, he has too many flaws that are easily exploitable. His biggest flaw is that stamina, he's going to be easily frustrated with his inability to touch Floyd so easily, he will burn out, and the rest is good night.

Sure that will be his best fights he can take to solidify his legacy, but doesn't mean I can't call them like it is. Easy fights.

This post has been edited by sduck: May 6 2013, 03:43 AM
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