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> Is Manny Pacquiao A B Level Fighter?
mgrover
post Jun 7 2013, 01:12 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jun 7 2013, 05:55 PM) *
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/friends.gif)



Well said bro. I agree, sometimes I just like to be the peace maker instead of the shit starter.


He beat those elite fighters with wide wide wide stipulations. Let's not front. His defense is sub par, his footwork needs help, he can't properly walk done opponents, he can't cut the ring off, he does not set traps or knows how to get out of them (see Marquez and Bradley). he is a great brawler but a sub average boxer. Mike Tyson knocked people out in great fashion but the moment he fought fighters with ring IQ and boxing skill, it was over. there is more to boxing then KOs. If that is teh case Gattie is an ATG


wide? I dunno, two pounds with Cotto who never said anything about it till he lost, DLH was the one who came down to welterweight and Margs fight should never of been a title. People had him in the as the best boxer in the world fro a fairly long time till Marquez 3. For the smaller man that's fairly impressive. Probably should of never gone past 140 but can ya do
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Dolimite
post Jun 7 2013, 02:56 PM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Jun 7 2013, 10:12 AM) *
wide? I dunno, two pounds with Cotto who never said anything about it till he lost, DLH was the one who came down to welterweight and Margs fight should never of been a title. People had him in the as the best boxer in the world fro a fairly long time till Marquez 3. For the smaller man that's fairly impressive. Probably should of never gone past 140 but can ya do

Cotto said that the 2 pounds hurt him later on not to mention that he just got his brains beat in by Margarito. It was way too soon for him to get back in the ring after the beating he took from Margarito. Oscar hadn't fought at welter weigh for 10 years, come on now, and their was a rehydration clause, let's be real. Margs is slow and taylored made for someone like Pac. He is the poorer version of Rios. Marquez taxed that sss 4 times. So because he is small makes him an A level fighter? Serious? Come on man, Bradley was the same size as Pac when they fought but yet he didn't look remotely impressive. Marquez and Pac are the same size and look what happen. So he is a murderer against people who is taller than he but someone the same size he just looks like shit? B fighter A brawler.
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mgrover
post Jun 7 2013, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jun 7 2013, 08:56 PM) *
Cotto said that the 2 pounds hurt him later on not to mention that he just got his brains beat in by Margarito. It was way too soon for him to get back in the ring after the beating he took from Margarito. Oscar hadn't fought at welter weigh for 10 years, come on now, and their was a rehydration clause, let's be real. Margs is slow and taylored made for someone like Pac. He is the poorer version of Rios. Marquez taxed that sss 4 times. So because he is small makes him an A level fighter? Serious? Come on man, Bradley was the same size as Pac when they fought but yet he didn't look remotely impressive. Marquez and Pac are the same size and look what happen. So he is a murderer against people who is taller than he but someone the same size he just looks like shit? B fighter A brawler.


your telling me, the guy whose the draw,the top PPV would fall for that and concede that? I get Oscar didn't fight there for 10 years, but don't let you mouth write a cheque you can't cash.

Marquez got a draw that was a loss, a close fight, and another fight till he finally got a KO.

Cotto shouldnt of signed the fight if he couldnt do it, was it really Pacs fault?? Margs sure is slow as fuck, but if people are trying to tell me he had nothing behind those punches well look at Pacs face post fight. He's an A level fighter because he made his way up through the divisions and beat people well. A lot of people go on about when he was at 130- he was pretty impressive too, and he was.

why because he's a smaller guy shouldn't he have an even playing field? next to the guy whose going to rehydrate god knows what. I mean Pac couldn't even make minimum weight. So if Pacs a B level fighter I guess that makes Cotto C level etc etc. While the Bradley fight was close people could see it going either way, the world saw it for Pac.

B level fighters for me are guys that just won't ever beat A level fighters, and he isn't that, he's beat plenty of A level fighters and looked pretty damn good doing so.
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mrchitown
post Jun 7 2013, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jun 7 2013, 11:55 AM) *
He beat those elite fighters with wide wide wide stipulations. Let's not front. His defense is sub par, his footwork needs help, he can't properly walk done opponents, he can't cut the ring off, he does not set traps or knows how to get out of them (see Marquez and Bradley). he is a great brawler but a sub average boxer. Mike Tyson knocked people out in great fashion but the moment he fought fighters with ring IQ and boxing skill, it was over. there is more to boxing then KOs. If that is teh case Gattie is an ATG


Stop diminishing what Tyson did. Pacquiao has his achievements and so does Mike, but this shit you speak of about Tysons is making my head hurt. You making it sound like Tysons had no skill and intelligence at all. Tysons had trouble with fighters with length, case in point a fighter like Lennox and he always would have a tough fight on his hands with a prime Lennox but a Tyson with Cus and or Rooney in his corner would do damage. We probably wouldn't even speak of Tyson in the way we do now if he would've stayed with Rooney
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Dolimite
post Jun 7 2013, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jun 7 2013, 02:52 PM) *
Stop diminishing what Tyson did. Pacquiao has his achievements and so does Mike, but this shit you speak of about Tysons is making my head hurt. You making it sound like Tysons had no skill and intelligence at all. Tysons had trouble with fighters with length, case in point a fighter like Lennox and he always would have a tough fight on his hands with a prime Lennox but a Tyson with Cus and or Rooney in his corner would do damage. We probably wouldn't even speak of Tyson in the way we do now if he would've stayed with Rooney

Tyson is a good fighter but what was his strength? His knock out punching power. Let's not pretend we remember Tyson for setting traps and cutting off the ring. He was a home run hitter. Tyson is a smart fighter but do we remember Tyson for his ring IQ, fuck no. Why are we trying to pretend like Tyson wasn't a brawler? Shit is ridiculous.

Cotto bitched about the two pounds and again giving credit to a smaller fighter is BS. I am sorry. The reason why Pac's face look the way it did after Margarito is because mighty mouse HAS NO DEFENSE He did not slip those slow ass punches Margarito was throwing. A good fighter with sound defense would not Margarito get to him. He did not avoid those punches instead he just took them on his chin. The power puncher won that fight. That fight was hardly technical, they stood toe to toe and slugged it out. Again Gatti did that his whole damn career. Rios is doing that now. Rios isn't a big guy and he has fought bigger guys than he so can we make him out to be an A level fighter? Hell no!
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mgrover
post Jun 8 2013, 05:12 AM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jun 7 2013, 11:45 PM) *
Tyson is a good fighter but what was his strength? His knock out punching power. Let's not pretend we remember Tyson for setting traps and cutting off the ring. He was a home run hitter. Tyson is a smart fighter but do we remember Tyson for his ring IQ, fuck no. Why are we trying to pretend like Tyson wasn't a brawler? Shit is ridiculous.

Cotto bitched about the two pounds and again giving credit to a smaller fighter is BS. I am sorry. The reason why Pac's face look the way it did after Margarito is because mighty mouse HAS NO DEFENSE He did not slip those slow ass punches Margarito was throwing. A good fighter with sound defense would not Margarito get to him. He did not avoid those punches instead he just took them on his chin. The power puncher won that fight. That fight was hardly technical, they stood toe to toe and slugged it out. Again Gatti did that his whole damn career. Rios is doing that now. Rios isn't a big guy and he has fought bigger guys than he so can we make him out to be an A level fighter? Hell no!


Its not just fighting bigger guys but beating them. Rios has fought one bigger guy which is Alvarado. I don't really care about the 8 divisions bullshit, it's the fact he made his way up and beat bigger guys, why can't he be A level for that? Sure he relied a lot of athleticism but people win fights not bodies.

Whats more is if he was just your standard A brawler, when fighting someone like Marquez or Barrera or Morales he'd of lost flat out. When he clearly wasn't sure he isn't what you call an A level boxer, but he beat some of the best and was regarded as either the best in the world or second best depending which camp you really fell in, all from according to you a B level fighter.

This post has been edited by mgrover: Jun 8 2013, 05:16 AM
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Dolimite
post Jun 8 2013, 08:03 AM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Jun 8 2013, 02:12 AM) *
Its not just fighting bigger guys but beating them. Rios has fought one bigger guy which is Alvarado. I don't really care about the 8 divisions bullshit, it's the fact he made his way up and beat bigger guys, why can't he be A level for that? Sure he relied a lot of athleticism but people win fights not bodies.

Whats more is if he was just your standard A brawler, when fighting someone like Marquez or Barrera or Morales he'd of lost flat out. When he clearly wasn't sure he isn't what you call an A level boxer, but he beat some of the best and was regarded as either the best in the world or second best depending which camp you really fell in, all from according to you a B level fighter.

How did he beat these fighters? Was through his boxing skills or going toe to toe? He re-matched Morales ten months later and Barrera 4 years later! Many say that Barrera won the rematch. Come on mgrover. Because he is short you want to give him credit. Okay, then Spud Webb is the greatest point guard in all of the NBA. He was short and he had to compete with guys way smaller than he was. He even defended Jordan. Muggsy Bogues was also short, does that make him an all time great? This perception of Manny being great because he beat bigger guys is a load of crap, many boxers have beaten guys bigger who were bigger than them. Again, Rios is a small man, he fights like Pac, how come he doesn't get the same credit? Pac had to fight the same guy 4 times and got his ass put to bed the last time which proves to me he may had won all 3 matches. He won two of them for sure. the 3rd and 4th fight. Again, he was nicely and perfectly matched against guys who fit his style. I am sorry he is a B level fighter and a A level brawler.
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KOpower
post Jun 8 2013, 10:15 AM
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Why is it so hard for you to understand? Manny has great hand speed, amazing power in both hands, and the rare ability to throw serious power shots from all type of angles. Combine that with his very strong chin and you have a legend. He wasn't a great defensive fighter because his offense was so rare and special. You sound like one of those Floyd haters that think he isn't a great fighter because his offense stinks and he can't knock people out.

He also has the wins to back it up. He went 6-2-1 vs the legendary Mexican trio at the lighter weights. He then moved up and crushed Oscar, smoked Hatton, pounded Margarito, handled Cotto, and battered Mosley/Clottey. None of those fights were even competitive. He got knocked out by Marquez on a PERFECT shot but until that punch he was winning the fight and looking very impressive. He also fought and imo won against a prime Bradley.

You are trying way too hard to hate on Manny. Saying that he is the same fighter as Rios is a joke and speaks to your level of hatred for Manny or your lack of knowledge as a fight fan. You sound like a casual that loves Floyd and that's it.
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Dolimite
post Jun 8 2013, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Jun 8 2013, 08:15 AM) *
Why is it so hard for you to understand? Manny has great hand speed, amazing power in both hands, and the rare ability to throw serious power shots from all type of angles. Combine that with his very strong chin and you have a legend. He wasn't a great defensive fighter because his offense was so rare and special. You sound like one of those Floyd haters that think he isn't a great fighter because his offense stinks and he can't knock people out.

He also has the wins to back it up. He went 6-2-1 vs the legendary Mexican trio at the lighter weights. He then moved up and crushed Oscar, smoked Hatton, pounded Margarito, handled Cotto, and battered Mosley/Clottey. None of those fights were even competitive. He got knocked out by Marquez on a PERFECT shot but until that punch he was winning the fight and looking very impressive. He also fought and imo won against a prime Bradley.

You are trying way too hard to hate on Manny. Saying that he is the same fighter as Rios is a joke and speaks to your level of hatred for Manny or your lack of knowledge as a fight fan. You sound like a casual that loves Floyd and that's it.

He's small, has hand speed, and power: am I suppose to nut off of that? I am not a hater, again I think he is a great brawler but after that what does he have? He is not a thinker in the ring, he has one speed and maybe that gets you going but not I. He doesn't have a plan B which is why he had trouble against Bradley. If he had any sort of ring IQ, Margarito wouldn't of touched him. I thought he lost to Barrera the second time but that is just me. And let's not even touch all the weight stipulations he had against his opponents. 8 divisional championship, bull shit!

This has nothing to do with Floyd at all. If people can critique the shit out of Floyd's career and people are cool with that, why can't someone scrutinize Manny's career? Because he is such a nice guy and "fights" for his people? No. He is a B level fighter who was matched extremely well against competition that fitted his brawling style. Who is Manny fightingnext... Rios, the guy who just lost his last fight! This is greatness to you? Rios fits his style perfectly, come forward fighter who defends with his face. Hatton was demoralized by Mayweather and was on a serious cocaine binge (he will even tell you that), Oscar fought at a weigh he hadn't fought in 10 years with 0 hydration the day of the fight. JMM beat him at least 3 times, Joshua Clottely? Serious and Mosley after losing and drawing the last 3 of his matches, okay. he should of fought Mosley the first time he called him out. Cotto came off getting his head bashed in by Margarito and he said that the weigh bothered him after the fight was over. I am not a hater and I think that is deflecting from the facts which pactards love doing.

This post has been edited by Dolimite: Jun 8 2013, 11:33 AM
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Cshel86
post Jun 8 2013, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jun 7 2013, 05:52 PM) *
Stop diminishing what Tyson did. Pacquiao has his achievements and so does Mike, but this shit you speak of about Tysons is making my head hurt. You making it sound like Tysons had no skill and intelligence at all. Tysons had trouble with fighters with length, case in point a fighter like Lennox and he always would have a tough fight on his hands with a prime Lennox but a Tyson with Cus and or Rooney in his corner would do damage. We probably wouldn't even speak of Tyson in the way we do now if he would've stayed with Rooney

Hell, we can go as far as throwing Douglas in there, with his 9-10 reach advantage over Tyson. Either the reach was a nightmare for Tyson, or we can blame it on that Bolivian Marching Powder that he was snorting before the fight...or was it weed?
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