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> HBO Boxing Production Values in the Crapper!
Jack 1000
post Jul 2 2013, 01:37 PM
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I'm Not talking about Lampy's pom-poms now,

I am talking about the whole production, which is now shit. It began when HBO started using post-fight pieces that AFAIK were not in the original PPV closed-circuit production. Fake-ass camera angles, post-fight material. Nothing wrong with post-fight material, but it now looks like it was put together by a college film crew. The turn-off is now showing these little bios about the fighter in-between rounds. Save that shit for your pre-fight show. In fact, when I DVR fights, I go right to the MC announcement of the fighters. I don't need all that shit with the fighter's in-laws, what he ate for dinner, here's the HBO guy running, here he is sleeping. And so forth .

Some people like that stuff. But it's more of a distraction that a positive draw. The graphics on the screen, Steve Weisfield there? FOR WHAT!? Now you got Kellerman trying so hard to be like Merchant in post-fight interviews. But it's not working, at least not for me. I wish Lou Dibella was still there as boxing Department Matchmaker!

As many know, Lou pioneered the HBO Boxing after Dark Series with some of the best fights in recent memory. He worked hard to prevent mismatches, even though contractual obligations with certain fighters forced some of their shit to be shown. (Jones-Frazier....UGGHHH) The thing is, who is really in charge of HBO's boxing Department at this time? It's said Ken Hirshman's there. But I question how effectively he is connecting the sport to the fans. Rumblings of Dan Raphael being involved as some kind of consultant there strengthen the above points. HBO has to stop looking for the next great fighter and offer more competitive fights. Yes, I loved watching "Triple G's" KO of Macklin! It still does not take away the fact that now more than ever, HBO will cling to anything to find a star.

The cling to anything to find a star, started when Lou Dibella left the network. Ross Greenberg had tons of network experience, but never really was a fight fan guy like Dibella. The concept at HBO that continues to this day, is you have to be a likeable pretty boy. (This began with Jones and Delahoya) or a fighter who engages in wars all the time. (Gatti, Pacquiao.) Mayweather and other fine boxers saw this trend and left HBO for Showtime where they felt HBO was not giving them their proper respect. Forget the longevity of say the Klitchko's. They aren't exciting enough. (according to HBO.)

Worse, so many of the people who care are now retired or dead. It's a parallel with HBO now showing better movies than fights, and Showtime, who seems to be doing so much better than HBO, showing better fights and totally POS movies. HBO now has to hold onto Bob Arum's Top Rank and Dibella Entertainment as there main boxing show feeders. What does HBO need to do to get back to the position that it once held as a leading boxing network?

Jack
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Dolimite
post Jul 2 2013, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jul 2 2013, 10:37 AM) *
I'm Not talking about Lampy's pom-poms now,

I am talking about the whole production, which is now shit. It began when HBO started using post-fight pieces that AFAIK were not in the original PPV closed-circuit production. Fake-ass camera angles, post-fight material. Nothing wrong with post-fight material, but it now looks like it was put together by a college film crew. The turn-off is now showing these little bios about the fighter in-between rounds. Save that shit for your pre-fight show. In fact, when I DVR fights, I go right to the MC announcement of the fighters. I don't need all that shit with the fighter's in-laws, what he ate for dinner, here's the HBO guy running, here he is sleeping. And so forth .

Some people like that stuff. But it's more of a distraction that a positive draw. The graphics on the screen, Steve Weisfield there? FOR WHAT!? Now you got Kellerman trying so hard to be like Merchant in post-fight interviews. But it's not working, at least not for me. I wish Lou Dibella was still there as boxing Department Matchmaker!

As many know, Lou pioneered the HBO Boxing after Dark Series with some of the best fights in recent memory. He worked hard to prevent mismatches, even though contractual obligations with certain fighters forced some of their shit to be shown. (Jones-Frazier....UGGHHH) The thing is, who is really in charge of HBO's boxing Department at this time? It's said Ken Hirshman's there. But I question how effectively he is connecting the sport to the fans. Rumblings of Dan Raphael being involved as some kind of consultant there strengthen the above points. HBO has to stop looking for the next great fighter and offer more competitive fights. Yes, I loved watching "Triple G's" KO of Macklin! It still does not take away the fact that now more than ever, HBO will cling to anything to find a star.

The cling to anything to find a star, started when Lou Dibella left the network. Ross Greenberg had tons of network experience, but never really was a fight fan guy like Dibella. The concept at HBO that continues to this day, is you have to be a likeable pretty boy. (This began with Jones and Delahoya) or a fighter who engages in wars all the time. (Gatti, Pacquiao.) Mayweather and other fine boxers saw this trend and left HBO for Showtime where they felt HBO was not giving them their proper respect. Forget the longevity of say the Klitchko's. They aren't exciting enough. (according to HBO.)

Worse, so many of the people who care are now retired or dead. It's a parallel with HBO now showing better movies than fights, and Showtime, who seems to be doing so much better than HBO, showing better fights and totally POS movies. HBO now has to hold onto Bob Arum's Top Rank and Dibella Entertainment as there main boxing show feeders. What does HBO need to do to get back to the position that it once held as a leading boxing network?

Jack


There is the key, the pioneers are gone. HBO felt that because they were the "Big Brother" of the cable networks then they could do anything. However, Showtime is doing a wonderful job with their sports production. HBO refuses to get anyone new with fresh ideas, They are putting lipstick on a pig and they feel somehow the viewers will not notice. They are doing the razzle dazzle approach and frankly it sucks. I hate their entire commentating crew. Max Kellerman I want to punch in the face. Jim L. has always been a dick to me and to be honest Ward isn't helping. HBO is lost.
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daprofessor
post Jul 2 2013, 03:14 PM
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great post!!! thanks for bringing this up. you beat me to it.

for starters....i want to say that hbo has had major issues for years and it seems it all caught up to them. i think larry merchant retiring was a good thing...the guy was way to negative for such a great sport. manny stewards passing was a serious blow because he was really the last good thing about the commentating crew. max seems to be trying real hard to recreate larry...but to his credit, i saw some of the old max on jim lampleys' fight game show. max just needs to go back to being himself and stop with the pompous shit that larry and jim made their schtick and turned me off to the network to begin with.

i'm sorry...but if dan rafael is the guy they are consulting on the sport than they deserve all the shit they have coming. there is nothing that guy can tell me about boxing. if you started watching boxing around the time the gatti/ward trilogy happened... you don't know enough to be in that position. they need to get rid of jim lampley. he doesn't know shit about boxing. the main thing they do is try to manufacture outcomes. they need to stop with that. limiting themselves to top rank and dibella is a mistake. the combination of lampley/kellerman/ward feels very forced. i enjoy their telecasts with bob poppa.
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mrchitown
post Jul 2 2013, 06:46 PM
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My biggest issue is with Kellerman because I was really a fan of the guy before he joined HBO, now he's been non this kick for quite a while where he ls trying to be Merchant-esque everytime he speaks. When he first got there he was himself and I thought he added substance to the team but soon as those rumblings that HBO wanted merchant out and him in he's totally turned into a carbon copy of the guy

Where did you hear that the poster child for diabetes was a consultant for them? That's is the literal definition of scrapping the bottom of the barrel

Greenburg didn't love the sport the way Dibella did but he sure as he'll knew how to create compelling content and that's what got HBO through. It's no secret that some fighters really liked dealing with him and took their complaints to him. If he wasn't good then Hershman would've had Showtime in a better position like how Espinosa has them now. On Eni heard Greenburg was doing some work with Showtime I knew it was a wrap for HBO. Hershman is Greenburg's toy, he owns the guy and ain't nothing he can do about it. HBO really suffers a big blow to their credibility when Steward passed, he was insightful and brought a needed balance. Now that he's gone its just open cheerleader season over there. Want to turn it around? Get rid of Hershman
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daprofessor
post Jul 2 2013, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jul 2 2013, 07:46 PM) *
My biggest issue is with Kellerman because I was really a fan of the guy before he joined HBO, now he's been non this kick for quite a while where he ls trying to be Merchant-esque everytime he speaks. When he first got there he was himself and I thought he added substance to the team but soon as those rumblings that HBO wanted merchant out and him in he's totally turned into a carbon copy of the guy

Where did you hear that the poster child for diabetes was a consultant for them? That's is the literal definition of scrapping the bottom of the barrel

Greenburg didn't love the sport the way Dibella did but he sure as he'll knew how to create compelling content and that's what got HBO through. It's no secret that some fighters really liked dealing with him and took their complaints to him. If he wasn't good then Hershman would've had Showtime in a better position like how Espinosa has them now. On Eni heard Greenburg was doing some work with Showtime I knew it was a wrap for HBO. Hershman is Greenburg's toy, he owns the guy and ain't nothing he can do about it. HBO really suffers a big blow to their credibility when Steward passed, he was insightful and brought a needed balance. Now that he's gone its just open cheerleader season over there. Want to turn it around? Get rid of Hershman


i won't shit on hershman because he had showtime doing great things when he was there. the problem is he has inherited a sinking ship at hbo. guys like lampley keep running the ship into ice bergs with his loaded commentary and spin. i wouldn't doubt he's had something to do with max trying to be larry. his show the fight game is just pure bullshit. "this is what it is...and here is a guy i'm going to call an expert to agree with what i'm saying to validate my bullshit..." the guest speaks...echos his bullshit then jim chimes back in..."thank u for signing off on my bullshit..." blah,blah,blah...or if they disagree he has a really sly way of saying they're full of shit when in truth...he's the guy that's full of shit. their act has gotten old.

if hbo wants to turn the ship around they can start by letting hershman do his thing and get all the guys who ran that place into the ground out. ppl blame greenburg and the other dude that just left. i blame lamps and merchant...and who ever the guy is in the ear piece that feeds them the bullshit to spew.

hire mike tyson to do commentary. he's rough around the edges but he'll be honest with his commentary. they don't need anyone to wax poetic....trying to be hemmingway. just give us boxing and ppl who can give us an accurate of account of what's happening...not what they want us to see.

stop dealing with promoters who shit on beautiful boxers like rigondeaux. arum is good for shitting on his own fighters and by giving him all the dates at hbo...they are in essence condoning that shit.

stop punishing the fighters who spoil their agenda. it was clear to me they were very butt hurt when bradley beat pac....and when jmm ktfo'd him. let the show keep going. i get that lampley spent the majority of his commentary on tossing pacquiao's salad verbally for years. we get it jim....but we can't undo what was done. don't hate on the guys who did it. it's the nature of the sport. these guys can't stay at top for ever....no matter how much u suck their asses on tv. fucking felcher.

stop trying to convince us certain fights are great. i got a head ache from watching rios and alvarado pummel each other.

i still feel they should offer the viewers an option of watching with just the ring and crowd noise. we don't need jim or max's opinions on everything. just let us enjoy the fights. i enjoyed all 3 fights last saturday.
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mrchitown
post Jul 2 2013, 08:52 PM
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I like Hershman as well but when it comes down to not hes just not a good fit over there. He does better with smaller budgets like he had at showtime, he'd probably do well with an ESPN fnf type of gig. Plus what battles me is that Greenburg isn't as knowledgeable in boxing as Hershman is but he's better then him! Yeah he did good things at showtime but they were respectable, showtime is actually competing with HBO now and that's something he couldn't do. Just like when they built fighters up over there only to watch them jump ship to HBO.

Why would I heed the opinion of someone whose only fights are against impressionable young white women (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) i don't give 2 shits about the fight game because most people he has on there don't know nothing bout the fight game. Don't sit there and tell me garbage boy Chris Mannix is bout that life lol, he not!

Kellerman can be so much better and he had the potential to be this generations great commentators, instead he plays into the rhetoric that the network wants him to. I never saw hin as a sage guy but that's what he's become now. And your right, they've got to cut out th agenda crap. For them the outcome is predetermined and they blow hard non that fighter the whole night but when they lose like how Manny did, they blast the winner. Marquez should not even fight on that network anymore. They've shown him so much disrespect

When he was controversially losing to Manny he was a warrior now he's under a cloud of suspicion. It's pathetic.

This post has been edited by mrchitown: Jul 3 2013, 02:25 AM
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daprofessor
post Jul 3 2013, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jul 2 2013, 09:52 PM) *
I like Hershman as well but when it comes down to not hes just not a good fit over there. He does better with smaller budgets like he had at showtime, he'd probably do well with an ESPN fnf type of gig. Plus what battles me is that Greenburg isn't as knowledgeable in boxing as Hershman is but he's better then him! Yeah he did good things at showtime but they were respectable, showtime is actually competing with HBO now and that's something he couldn't do. Just like when they built fighters up over there only to watch them jump ship to HBO.

Why would I heed the opinion of someone whose only fights are against impressionable young white women (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) i don't give 2 shits about the fight game because most people he has on there don't know nothing bout the fight game. Don't sit there and tell me garbage boy Chris Mannix is bout that life lol, he not!

Kellerman can be so much better and he had the potential to be this generations great commentators, instead he plays into the rhetoric that the network wants him to. I never saw hin as a sage guy but that's what he's become now. And your right, they've got to cut out th agenda crap. For them the outcome is predetermined and they blow hard non that fighter the whole night but when they lose like how Manny did, they blast the winner. Marquez should not even fight on that network anymore. They've shown him so much disrespect

When he was controversially losing to Manny he was a warrior now he's under a cloud of suspicion. It's pathetic.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) who's chris mannix? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

kellerman is cut from a different cloth. this dude came up under bill cayton and jim jacobs. they were the guys who co-managed mike tyson. they were good friends with cus d'amato and had the largest fight film collection in the world! kellerman had access to all of that when he had his cable access show as a kid. he needs to break away from the bullshit and get back on his game. seems to me he's just going thru the motions to collect a check. he's better than that.

and you're right about marquez. the same can be said for tim bradley. these guys have always had a bad habit of shitting on fighters and to me it just shows a lack of respect for the sport.

This post has been edited by daprofessor: Jul 3 2013, 02:37 PM
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mrchitown
post Jul 3 2013, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 3 2013, 02:36 PM) *
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) who's chris mannix? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

kellerman is cut from a different cloth. this dude came up under bill cayton and jim jacobs. they were the guys who co-managed mike tyson. they were good friends with cus d'amato and had the largest fight film collection in the world! kellerman had access to all of that when he had his cable access show as a kid. he needs to break away from the bullshit and get back on his game. seems to me he's just going thru the motions to collect a check. he's better than that.

and you're right about marquez. the same can be said for tim bradley. these guys have always had a bad habit of shitting on fighters and to me it just shows a lack of respect for the sport.

Seems whenever a boxer and input strong emphasis on then word boxer beats HBO's appointed golden child then they have to disrespect that person.

What they need is more unbiased commentary and they need to act in transparency as a whole. Mannix? Gimme a break lol
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Franchize
post Jul 4 2013, 12:59 AM
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If anyone is familiar with NYC radio, HBO is Hot 97 and Showtime is Power 105. HBO used to be the pioneer and pinnacle of boxing. When Showtime came along, they had a little buzz but nobody took them serious. It wasn't until HBO started throwing shots at them unnecessarily that they started getting true notoriety. Same happened with the radio stations in NYC. Then, all the stars start flocking towards the new "it" network. HBO gave Showtime some light and instead of counteracting that with quality, long lasting fighters you can root for, they have bar room brawls where both fighters are a shell of themselves after. Then you get Jim Lampley with his butthurt monologue otherwise known as The Fight Game. HBO reeks of jealous ex girlfriend right now. They are the Josie Harris' of boxing lmao
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HyyerBlaze
post Jul 4 2013, 02:02 AM
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Still thought the 24/7 series is better than Showtimes version
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