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> HBO Boxing Production Values in the Crapper!
daprofessor
post Jul 17 2013, 07:34 PM
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QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jul 17 2013, 02:50 PM) *
Great post!

How would you all describe Roy Jone's treatment in his prime at HBO? He was not really the slugger that Merchant and Lamps wanted for the boxing persona? But HBO treated Roy well, despite his great skills, he did fight a lot of no-hopers and guys toward the end of their careers. Yet he would be considered more boxer than slugger. I liked his commentary though! What made Lamply and Merchant often bring out the pom-poms for Jones? Was it often his dominance over less than stellar opponents? Roy wasn't Lamply's "Goo Goo" toy like Delahoya was! I agree the way Lamply sucked up to Delahoa was sicking. I give Merchant credit for his famous "Delahoya's enterence music sucks." which showed that when we wanted to, he didn't have to be a "Yes Man" like Lamply all the time. Remember that Merchant's comment about Oscar's music got him suspended for a telecast?

Jack


thanks.

i think roy...like oscar, floyd and rigondeaux...was a rare talent and they recognized that early. let's not forget that roy got robbed in the '88 olympics so he was very much in the publics eye. roy came at the perfect time because that was when hbo started signing fighters to huge contracts in hopes of finding the next star. what they didn't forsee was roy milking that contract for all it was worth with his picking and choosing...and not really taking on big challenges. they created that monster...so they had to live with him. i can recall merchant giving jones shit a few times about his opposition which imo was the thing to do...but again, they created that monster. merchant "telling it like it is..." seems to start around that same time too. i thought it was funny when he said the music sucked...i didn't recall him being suspended for it until i read about it years afterward. i sometimes watch the old fights i have on dvd and once upon a time...merchants commentary was excellent. somewhere along the way....he became this old bitter/jaded man who feels it's necessary to shit on peoples careers. i prefer the young larry merchant. jim lampley always sucked ass to me. color commentator my ass...the guy has no clue. overall...i would say roy was treated well by hbo. he was pissed when they called him on his choosing weak opposition. they both said and did things to put strains on the relationship...but in the end, he still does commentary for them and is one of their more honest/accurate commentators. he is what's good about hbo when it comes to commentary.
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daprofessor
post Jul 17 2013, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jul 17 2013, 03:54 PM) *
I don't understand how Rafael is a match maker when he ain't gotten into a fight in his life, at least not in my view. I don't see where's the wealth of knowledge that he's bringing to the table. He's a nut hugger, plain and simple

Hauser still writes those types of articles, the recent shtick he's been railing on is Mayweather and USADA and their relationship with GB. If you listen to him, they're all in cahoots to make it seem like they're cleaning up the sport. He even claims to have proof that Mayweather failed a USADA administered test and they swept it under the rug. I used to respect him but he's become quite embarrassing

I agree also with TR getting special treatment over at HBO, I think that had a little something to do with the impact king had though. Tyson was the man and HBO needed something to counter attack with and they rode Arum's nuts and haven't stopped since. They used Oscar as the tool to propel them and the second he went off on his own they sneak dissed him. Just like when Floyd beat Gatti, I noticed a shift in the way they spoke about him. The thing that boxers need to know is that if you fight on HBO and your not the in house fighter. And you win. You will be degraded and put on the shelf like some kind of toy. They've done it in the part and there doing it now with Rigondeaux. It's like fight on our network at your own risk


i stopped reading his articles shortly after the bullshit. he lost all his credibility with that shit imo. i remember pointing it all out in another forum only to be attacked venemously by some of the writers who are shills for toprank. they're so predictable in their shit...it's super obvious. the whole usada/vada/conte bullshit is all they have to cling onto because none of them muthafuckas knows shit about boxing.

i miss don king. i know he wasn't the most honest dude in the sport...but who is??? arum is worse imo. my memory may be off...but there seemed to be more balance when he was around. these days...gbp and showtime seem to be kicking arums and hbo's ass. the rivalry is both good and bad. some great fights are being made. i'd like to see arum put the bullshit aside and let some great fights get made. i believe he's the one holding shit up.
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daprofessor
post Jul 17 2013, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Jul 17 2013, 04:03 PM) *
Kellerman is a far better Boxing Historian than he is a Commentator. To me they picked him because they knew he could talk about all the history of this boxer and that boxer but doing flat out commentary is just not his thing, he tries to be honest and somewhat neutral when he's calling the fight but you can tell that they're trying to reel him in to make him say stuff that isn't happening like Lampley does when it is an HBO house fighter that is in the ring.

HBO's problem has been magnified with the disappearance of Floyd, regardless of what they say their network took a huge loss since Money left them; people ask questions and I'm sure that they know that HBO is the boxing giant of the sport and they wanted to know why Floyd left such a huge network?......

SHO will not bite the hand that is feeding them which is why they so eagerly snatched up Floyd and once other technically gifted fighters like the Rigo's of the sport learn that they either have to switch up their style or sit it out for months at a time waiting to get a fight from HBO then they too will leave them as well.

If you're not an all out Rocky then HBO is not clamoring to put you on especially as a headliner fight, Rigo won't get another headliner with HBO-he may be relegated to undercard status from here on out as long as he stays with HBO.


i don't think rigondeaux style has anything to do with it. floyd and broner weren't much different stylistically. they were all over broners nut sack before he even really accomplished anything noteworthy. rigo seems to be a bigger puncher than both floyd and broner. shit..u can even throw donaires name in there too!!! donaires has stunk out the joint plenty of times...that mathebula fight was garbage....he didn't do shit against narvaez and rigondeaux!!! but he's being invited back!?!?!?

rigondeaux shouldn't have to switch his style up for no one. hbo and arum need to get some understanding.
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daprofessor
post Jul 17 2013, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jul 17 2013, 06:02 PM) *
******************************************************

Good call! Notice how after Floyd beat Gatti, they didn't like it. Gatti was their action-fighter lovable poster-boy, and Floyd, didn't matter that he was and is one of the best most elusive fighters for his time, he had a prick personality. And HBO didn't like that this bad POS beat their Golden Goose. In fact, they made the odds in that fighter closer than they should have been. I will admit that at the time, I still had this strong hatred of Floyd and wanted Gatti to win. There were a lot of people that picked Gatti to win, because they put SO MUCH pom-poming into those three Gatti-Ward fights. The first fight was great, but the second and third are way over-rated. When Floyd gave Arturo the beating of his life, HBO didn't like that. Sort of a similar way that they treated Bradley like shit for beating Pacquaio and especially Marquez for KO'ing Lamply's "Bed Partner."

It's almost like if you followed pro wrestling at all. HBO wants their Rocky sluggers or goodie-too-shows personality boxers to be molded into a Hulk Hogan type persona. Delahoya, Gatti-Ward are the good guys. And like stated above, if you aren't a pretty boy good guy or a Rocky fighter, HBO doesn't respect you and will reduce you to undercard status if you can get anything at all, should you beat one of "Lamply's Toys." HBO's Rocky fighters or squeaky clean good guys are their "Hulk Hogan." and if you don't fit the mold that HBO is looking for, you will be restricted in terms of air-dates and opponents. It's exactly the type of Latin-American/Hispanic/Mexican, manufactured star that Bob Arum plays to and has for years. He's got the fighters that HBO wants, for now. If that relationship goes sour due to the distrust of Arum, and those fighters feeling that they are not getting what they are worth. (Alverado.) How long with the relationship last?

I also think that Tom Hauser is a good writer. I read, The Black Lights by him. But not so good at other elements of the fight game.

Jack


the thing about it...gatti had been beaten plenty of times by other good fighters. stopped by angel manfreddy, ivan robinson x 2, stopped by oscar de la hoya...but they just kept recycling him while they swept other guys to the side. win or lose, gatti was an exciting fighter. same can be said for other guys like zab judah. thing about judah though...he was brought back as the 'b' side to the promotion whereas gatti was brought back as the 'a' side. if hbo had any sense....or knew what the fuck they were doing...it really comes down to quality match making. in order for that to happen...you need guys who really know boxing...not guys who follow boxing and report on it. there's a difference.

i read "the black lights" years ago. it's the one about billy costello. i really didn't like the guy when he was fighting but i thought the book was excellent. he passed a few years ago. hauser is definitely a good writer. he should stick to that.
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daprofessor
post Jul 26 2013, 10:11 PM
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so now the story is that hbo is turning down opponents for andre wards come back fight after his surgery. anyone hear about this?
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mrchitown
post Jul 27 2013, 12:08 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 26 2013, 10:11 PM) *
so now the story is that hbo is turning down opponents for andre wards come back fight after his surgery. anyone hear about this?


Who they turn down? Now maybe Andre is seeing that jumping over to HBO wasn't such a good idea. He deserves better then the treatment he's getting. I wouldn't be surprised if he literally turned into Bernard personality wise. He gets little respect from the suits
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daprofessor
post Jul 29 2013, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jul 27 2013, 01:08 AM) *
Who they turn down? Now maybe Andre is seeing that jumping over to HBO wasn't such a good idea. He deserves better then the treatment he's getting. I wouldn't be surprised if he literally turned into Bernard personality wise. He gets little respect from the suits


funny you should say that! is it just me, or did bradley and wards demeanor seem to change in their latest interviews on video? they almost seemed annoyed and angry.

wow....there is definitely a patter going on at hbo. they had the best fighter in the game and consistently shit on him and took him for granted.

can't expect it to be any different for bradley, ward or rigondeaux. i don't want to be the one to point out the obvious similarities between these guys...


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mrchitown
post Jul 29 2013, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 29 2013, 03:20 PM) *
funny you should say that! is it just me, or did bradley and wards demeanor seem to change in their latest interviews on video? they almost seemed annoyed and angry.

wow....there is definitely a patter going on at hbo. they had the best fighter in the game and consistently shit on him and took him for granted.

can't expect it to be any different for bradley, ward or rigondeaux. i don't want to be the one to point out the obvious similarities between these guys...


Imagine what will happen if and when Andre beat the boxer formerly known as Chavez Jr or if he beats Golovkin, they're going to pounce on him and do everything they can to diminish his standing in boxing, quite like how they've attempted to do to Mayweather Jr.

You are right in that they're demeanor seems to have changed but you and I both know that Tim and Andre are far from the people they are coming across to be in these interviews. I think they are upset at the way the portrayal of them is coming off to the public and I can't blame them for that
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daprofessor
post Jul 29 2013, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jul 29 2013, 04:54 PM) *
Imagine what will happen if and when Andre beat the boxer formerly known as Chavez Jr or if he beats Golovkin, they're going to pounce on him and do everything they can to diminish his standing in boxing, quite like how they've attempted to do to Mayweather Jr.

You are right in that they're demeanor seems to have changed but you and I both know that Tim and Andre are far from the people they are coming across to be in these interviews. I think they are upset at the way the portrayal of them is coming off to the public and I can't blame them for that


i agree.
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Dolimite
post Jul 29 2013, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 17 2013, 04:48 PM) *
i don't think rigondeaux style has anything to do with it. floyd and broner weren't much different stylistically. they were all over broners nut sack before he even really accomplished anything noteworthy. rigo seems to be a bigger puncher than both floyd and broner. shit..u can even throw donaires name in there too!!! donaires has stunk out the joint plenty of times...that mathebula fight was garbage....he didn't do shit against narvaez and rigondeaux!!! but he's being invited back!?!?!?

rigondeaux shouldn't have to switch his style up for no one. hbo and arum need to get some understanding.

Rigondeaux beat Donaire, that was not suppose to happen in their eyes. So, this suspension or benching is punishment that you never beat the home fighter. Rigondeaux would probably gotten more fights if he lost.
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