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> HBO@9:45PM(ET)/7:45PM(PT):Cotto vs. Rodriguez-SPOILERS, No New Threads, Public Streams, or Talk of Klitschko-Povotkin Fight
daprofessor
post Oct 11 2013, 02:26 AM
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ok...here's my take...

i thought rodriguez would be a tough fight for cotto...and i know i wasn't alone on that...plenty of ppl i know picked delvin to win and they are boxing minds. also...let's not act like rodriguez was made to order or some simp. that simp went 12 evenly contested rounds with trout imo. the scores didn't tell the story.

i have to admit....roach and cotto pulled the okie doke on me. i watched video of cotto training and doing mitt work with freddie and he was leaning all hard over his front foot. he looked like shit. then he comes out the corner sitting on his back foot and turning into them body shots which lead to the clean head shots. the old cotto...with a little more seasoning was back imo. freddie didn't teach him anything new. he took him back to what he was doing at 140. he had way more power at that weight and imo got more leverage by sitting down on his punches. i tried to tell some of you in the thread where i was trying to sell the cotto/floyd rematch that pedro diaz had him doing no so good things that played into floyds favor. i made the case that if he could go back to doing certain things...the fight with floyd would be more competitive. of course at that time i had no idea that floyd would bring his pops back into his corner and his pops came with his own ideas of changes that needed to be made. with all that being said, i don't believe the second fight looks anything like the first one. i think it will be more competitive...more strategic...and with cotto's return to those certain things....he's either going to hit the jack pot or get cashed out. in my mind....there is no fight i'd rather see more for floyd. i still think he needs to beat someone at 160 to stake his claim and separate himself from the pack...but before he does that, i'd like to see floyd/cotto 2 in the madison square garden please.
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mrchitown
post Oct 11 2013, 10:27 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 11 2013, 02:26 AM) *
ok...here's my take...

i thought rodriguez would be a tough fight for cotto...and i know i wasn't alone on that...plenty of ppl i know picked delvin to win and they are boxing minds. also...let's not act like rodriguez was made to order or some simp. that simp went 12 evenly contested rounds with trout imo. the scores didn't tell the story.

i have to admit....roach and cotto pulled the okie doke on me. i watched video of cotto training and doing mitt work with freddie and he was leaning all hard over his front foot. he looked like shit. then he comes out the corner sitting on his back foot and turning into them body shots which lead to the clean head shots. the old cotto...with a little more seasoning was back imo. freddie didn't teach him anything new. he took him back to what he was doing at 140. he had way more power at that weight and imo got more leverage by sitting down on his punches. i tried to tell some of you in the thread where i was trying to sell the cotto/floyd rematch that pedro diaz had him doing no so good things that played into floyds favor. i made the case that if he could go back to doing certain things...the fight with floyd would be more competitive. of course at that time i had no idea that floyd would bring his pops back into his corner and his pops came with his own ideas of changes that needed to be made. with all that being said, i don't believe the second fight looks anything like the first one. i think it will be more competitive...more strategic...and with cotto's return to those certain things....he's either going to hit the jack pot or get cashed out. in my mind....there is no fight i'd rather see more for floyd. i still think he needs to beat someone at 160 to stake his claim and separate himself from the pack...but before he does that, i'd like to see floyd/cotto 2 in the madison square garden please.


Rematches should only be made when the outcome was controversial or the fight was close, and maybe compelling drama. And the fight did have some of that because of the "bloody nose" . What grounds can a rematch be based off, he lost definitvely. And what did Roach really do to improve Miguel...I thought Delvin would give him a run but I want to know who you snorted lines with that's a boxing mind that thought Delvin would win

Delvin did what he was supposed to do and that's make Cotto look good, how dare you come in here damn near a week after this fight and insult the good people's intelligence lol...did you see how open Cotto was, If he had fought Mayweather last Saturday that would've been a shutout. He came out in the 1st round wide open, he'd not only get countered to death under Roach but he'd also be eating right hands like they were tic tac's.....I wouldn't hold my breath for a rematch since he came out like a p*ssy and said GB would have to negotiate with TR, that eliminates a Canelo fight or a rematch with Floyd.

It looks like thy're pushing for the Martinez fight, Cotto is one of my favorite Boxers but he's dumb and we all know it lol....drug dealers have more business acumen then he does. I expect that to be his last fight if it happens, Martinez is going to put the lights out

And let's say by some miracle GB/TR did negotiate, it's better if he fights those people Arum line up for him because it's a clear reason why he went back there lol. Trout would beat his ass again, Cotto wouldn't beat Lara imo. If he tries to step to GB fighters again he going to retire 0-fill in the #, against GB fighters. I'd like to see him get some more wins under his belt, maybe a fight with Kirkland

This post has been edited by mrchitown: Oct 11 2013, 10:39 AM
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Cshel86
post Oct 11 2013, 10:59 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 11 2013, 03:26 AM) *
ok...here's my take...

i thought rodriguez would be a tough fight for cotto...and i know i wasn't alone on that...plenty of ppl i know picked delvin to win and they are boxing minds. also...let's not act like rodriguez was made to order or some simp. that simp went 12 evenly contested rounds with trout imo. the scores didn't tell the story.

i have to admit....roach and cotto pulled the okie doke on me. i watched video of cotto training and doing mitt work with freddie and he was leaning all hard over his front foot. he looked like shit. then he comes out the corner sitting on his back foot and turning into them body shots which lead to the clean head shots. the old cotto...with a little more seasoning was back imo. freddie didn't teach him anything new. he took him back to what he was doing at 140. he had way more power at that weight and imo got more leverage by sitting down on his punches. i tried to tell some of you in the thread where i was trying to sell the cotto/floyd rematch that pedro diaz had him doing no so good things that played into floyds favor. i made the case that if he could go back to doing certain things...the fight with floyd would be more competitive. of course at that time i had no idea that floyd would bring his pops back into his corner and his pops came with his own ideas of changes that needed to be made. with all that being said, i don't believe the second fight looks anything like the first one. i think it will be more competitive...more strategic...and with cotto's return to those certain things....he's either going to hit the jack pot or get cashed out. in my mind....there is no fight i'd rather see more for floyd. i still think he needs to beat someone at 160 to stake his claim and separate himself from the pack...but before he does that, i'd like to see floyd/cotto 2 in the madison square garden please.

Wouldn't we like certain fighters to go back to certain things? Not all, but a certain few. I like Diaz's plan for him in the Mayweather fight, but Cotto just uses his legs too much, and I cant remember when that started...maybe it was the Gomez fight, or he could've very well started that in the first Margarito fight.

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Oct 11 2013, 11:27 AM) *
Rematches should only be made when the outcome was controversial or the fight was close, and maybe compelling drama. And the fight did have some of that because of the "bloody nose" . What grounds can a rematch be based off, he lost definitvely. And what did Roach really do to improve Miguel...I thought Delvin would give him a run but I want to know who you snorted lines with that's a boxing mind that thought Delvin would win

Delvin did what he was supposed to do and that's make Cotto look good, how dare you come in here damn near a week after this fight and insult the good people's intelligence lol...did you see how open Cotto was, If he had fought Mayweather last Saturday that would've been a shutout. He came out in the 1st round wide open, he'd not only get countered to death under Roach but he'd also be eating right hands like they were tic tac's.....I wouldn't hold my breath for a rematch since he came out like a p*ssy and said GB would have to negotiate with TR, that eliminates a Canelo fight or a rematch with Floyd.

It looks like thy're pushing for the Martinez fight, Cotto is one of my favorite Boxers but he's dumb and we all know it lol....drug dealers have more business acumen then he does. I expect that to be his last fight if it happens, Martinez is going to put the lights out

And let's say by some miracle GB/TR did negotiate, it's no secret that they'll go for "the BIGGEST fight that never happened", rather than wasting that one miracle negotiation on Cotto's wishy washy ass, lol. Trout would beat his ass again, Cotto wouldn't beat Lara imo. If he tries to step to GB fighters again he going to retire 0-fill in the #, against GB fighters. I'd like to see him get some more wins under his belt, maybe a fight with Kirkland

There you go Chi, I fixed it for you and the masses!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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mrchitown
post Oct 11 2013, 11:18 AM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 11 2013, 10:59 AM) *
Wouldn't we like certain fighters to go back to certain things? Not all, but a certain few. I like Diaz's plan for him in the Mayweather fight, but Cotto just uses his legs too much, and I cant remember when that started...maybe it was the Gomez fight, or he could've very well started that in the first Margarito fight.


There you go Chi, I fixed it for you and the masses!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


I think he started moving too much when he fought Margartio back in 08, he started out using his legs in that one. But the problem is he gets fatigued too easily. I always say the person who improved Cotto the most was Emmanuel Steward because he added balance to Cotto and had him working behind the jab. Diaz did some good things with him as well, he kept Cotto sharp and focused on executing the game plan and he did put up a great effort against Floyd but he was outclassed....I need to see more of this Roach/Cotto union, but off the bat I really don't like how open Cotto is to be hit or to be countered

Nice fix lol
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Cshel86
post Oct 11 2013, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Oct 11 2013, 12:18 PM) *
I think he started moving too much when he fought Margartio back in 08, he started out using his legs in that one. But the problem is he gets fatigued too easily. I always say the person who improved Cotto the most was Emmanuel Steward because he added balance to Cotto and had him working behind the jab. Diaz did some good things with him as well, he kept Cotto sharp and focused on executing the game plan and he did put up a great effort against Floyd but he was outclassed....I need to see more of this Roach/Cotto union, but off the bat I really don't like how open Cotto is to be hit or to be countered

Nice fix lol

Yeah you're right, it was the Margarito fight. He simply dismantled Gomez..what was I thinking? lol

I need to see a little bit more of the Cotto/Roach reunion myself, its just too early to tell. I want somebody to help Cotto with defense and making adjustments...more so making adjustments though. All of that offense and bringing the old Cotto back, is what messed him up the first time around.

The old Cotto used to box and be first when he wanted to hurt the other guy, THEN came the using the legs too much, that's when the trouble started. I'm not too stoked about all of these "new trainer = new fighter" stories that we're being sold. Most of Freddie's can be offensive, throw combinations, and be first...but what happens when the tables are turned and the other guy makes adjustment? Usually, Freddie's fighters struggle with defense and making adjustments.

I guess we'll have to wait and see...
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mrchitown
post Oct 11 2013, 01:44 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Oct 11 2013, 11:29 AM) *
Yeah you're right, it was the Margarito fight. He simply dismantled Gomez..what was I thinking? lol

I need to see a little bit more of the Cotto/Roach reunion myself, its just too early to tell. I want somebody to help Cotto with defense and making adjustments...more so making adjustments though. All of that offense and bringing the old Cotto back, is what messed him up the first time around.

The old Cotto used to box and be first when he wanted to hurt the other guy, THEN came the using the legs too much, that's when the trouble started. I'm not too stoked about all of these "new trainer = new fighter" stories that we're being sold. Most of Freddie's can be offensive, throw combinations, and be first...but what happens when the tables are turned and the other guy makes adjustment? Usually, Freddie's fighters struggle with defense and making adjustments.

I guess we'll have to wait and see...


This is why I'm skeptical if it will work, I think he should get a few more wins under his belt and then go for a fight against a Martinez or some other legacy defining fight. He be so hyped after getting with a new trainer and actually winning that he don't think things through. Then he get served like Tommy by Bushwick Bill in Martin's hallway and look up and wonder wth happened
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daprofessor
post Oct 12 2013, 01:19 AM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Oct 11 2013, 10:27 AM) *
Rematches should only be made when the outcome was controversial or the fight was close, and maybe compelling drama. And the fight did have some of that because of the "bloody nose" . What grounds can a rematch be based off, he lost definitvely. And what did Roach really do to improve Miguel...I thought Delvin would give him a run but I want to know who you snorted lines with that's a boxing mind that thought Delvin would win

Delvin did what he was supposed to do and that's make Cotto look good, how dare you come in here damn near a week after this fight and insult the good people's intelligence lol...did you see how open Cotto was, If he had fought Mayweather last Saturday that would've been a shutout. He came out in the 1st round wide open, he'd not only get countered to death under Roach but he'd also be eating right hands like they were tic tac's.....I wouldn't hold my breath for a rematch since he came out like a p*ssy and said GB would have to negotiate with TR, that eliminates a Canelo fight or a rematch with Floyd.

It looks like thy're pushing for the Martinez fight, Cotto is one of my favorite Boxers but he's dumb and we all know it lol....drug dealers have more business acumen then he does. I expect that to be his last fight if it happens, Martinez is going to put the lights out

And let's say by some miracle GB/TR did negotiate, it's better if he fights those people Arum line up for him because it's a clear reason why he went back there lol. Trout would beat his ass again, Cotto wouldn't beat Lara imo. If he tries to step to GB fighters again he going to retire 0-fill in the #, against GB fighters. I'd like to see him get some more wins under his belt, maybe a fight with Kirkland


cotto vs martinez is very possible and it's a legacy fight. he doesn't need gbp to make money. he pretty much made most of his money with toprank. him saying that they will have to deal with arum is just taking the negotiations out of his hands. some guys are not cut out for those things. some guys are not good at picking opponents either. it's clear to me cotto isn't one of those guys that is capable of handling business on his own. let's be honest...who is? floyd wouldn't be in the position he is in without al haymon.

as for cotto looking wide open...i didn't see him eat any shots in that fight even though rodriguez was the taller/longer guy. outside of his loss to trout...i've never seen cotto have any problems cutting the ring off on guys that like to move. sergio martinez has been a one trick pony for quite some time. cotto will present problems he's not had to deal with in his career since margarito and williams beat him. i like cotto's chances against him.
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daprofessor
post Oct 12 2013, 01:29 AM
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i'm not one who likes to repeat myself...so i'll just copy and paste instead.

QUOTE
he comes out the corner sitting on his back foot and turning into them body shots which lead to the clean head shots. the old cotto...with a little more seasoning was back imo. freddie didn't teach him anything new. he took him back to what he was doing at 140. he had way more power at that weight and imo got more leverage by sitting down on his punches.


and i'll add...

sitting on the back foot allows for more defensive reaction time. translation: u can see the punches coming...therefore, respond appropriately. the thing that diaz had him doing was making him lean on the front foot. the back draw to that is he is closer to his opponent and easier to hit. he only compounds the matter by using the high guard which blinds him and makes him easier to hit. making an opponent miss completely fatigues them instantly and also makes it very easy to counter. i also believe diaz was over training him.
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checkleft
post Oct 12 2013, 01:40 AM
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QUOTE (daprofessor @ Oct 12 2013, 01:29 AM) *
i'm not one who likes to repeat myself...so i'll just copy and paste instead.



and i'll add...

sitting on the back foot allows for more defensive reaction time. translation: u can see the punches coming...therefore, respond appropriately. the thing that diaz had him doing was making him lean on the front foot. the back draw to that is he is closer to his opponent and easier to hit. he only compounds the matter by using the high guard which blinds him and makes him easier to hit. making an opponent miss completely fatigues them instantly and also makes it very easy to counter. i also believe diaz was over training him.

Shit, chavez Jr could over train cotto. Cotto has always been very sensitive when it comes to his conditioning

One thing I was very impressed by was his confidence. Not only was he going in their turning into his shots and cutting off the ring, he was doing it willing to take punishment! Ever since the margarito (and maybe the Mosley fight) he has seemed to gotten frozen by any sort of clean shot. I didn't see Delvin really land anything very clean but the fact that cotto was confident and determined enough to get in the trenches with a guy who stood up to wolak for two fights is telling.
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daprofessor
post Oct 12 2013, 01:44 AM
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QUOTE (checkleft @ Oct 12 2013, 01:40 AM) *
Shit, chavez Jr could over train cotto. Cotto has always been very sensitive when it comes to his conditioning

One thing I was very impressed by was his confidence. Not only was he going in their turning into his shots and cutting off the ring, he was doing it willing to take punishment! Ever since the margarito (and maybe the Mosley fight) he has seemed to gotten frozen by any sort of clean shot. I didn't see Delvin really land anything very clean but the fact that cotto was confident and determined enough to get in the trenches with a guy who stood up to wolak for two fights is telling.


true. he seemed lean and fast and more explosive as well.
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