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> Cotto-Alverez or Cotto-Martinez?
Which is the smartest big fight for Cotto next?
Alverez or Martinez
Cotto-Alverez [ 15 ] ** [60.00%]
Cotto-Martinez [ 9 ] ** [36.00%]
Other (Your Suggestion) [ 1 ] ** [4.00%]
Total Votes: 25
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klonopinz
post Nov 17 2013, 06:17 PM
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bradley has already gone on record saying that he ould go up to 154 to fight canelo without a doubt, so cotto is a no brainer, bradley is down. the ball is in your court cotto, "make a decision, make a decision" (denzel training day reference)
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mrchitown
post Nov 17 2013, 06:27 PM
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Ain't no money in a fight between Cotto and Tim lmao. Cotto fights for the bigger paydays and Tim doesn't deliver. Miguel is in a good position. He can fight Martinez and win or lose the Canelo fight will still be there, or he can fight Canelo and the Martinez fight will still be there too. He's in a win-win situation

This post has been edited by mrchitown: Nov 17 2013, 07:10 PM
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Cshel86
post Nov 17 2013, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Nov 17 2013, 06:27 PM) *
Ain't no money in a fight between Cotto and Tim lmao. Cotto fights for the bigger paydays and Tim doesn't deliver. Miguel is in a good position. He can fight Martinez and win or lose the Canelo fight will still be there, or he can fight Canelo and the Martinez fight will still be there too. He's in a win-win situation

If Arum could pull off a Bradley/Marquez fight, then surely he could push a Cotto/Bradley fight to the public.
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checkleft
post Nov 17 2013, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 17 2013, 08:42 PM) *
If Arum could pull off a Bradley/Marquez fight, then surely he could push a Cotto/Bradley fight to the public.

As jay z would say he could sell water to a well..
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klonopinz
post Nov 17 2013, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Nov 17 2013, 06:27 PM) *
Ain't no money in a fight between Cotto and Tim lmao. Cotto fights for the bigger paydays and Tim doesn't deliver. Miguel is in a good position. He can fight Martinez and win or lose the Canelo fight will still be there, or he can fight Canelo and the Martinez fight will still be there too. He's in a win-win situation



of course there is. the fact that we are discussing this fight in a thread thats supposed to be about canelo and martinez says that there is interest amongst boxing purists, and we are the ones who set up the matches that the casual fans eventually gain interest in. i think it makes alot of sense financially for bob arum, and bob is ultimately in control right now. cotto is in a win win like you said so he doesnt really care. a 160 title is a nice dream, but the reality is fair at best. maybe making timmy come up to 154 may suit cotto. the fact that cotto is being trained by roach is also a plus because roach has alot of experience fighting against bradley, and hes knows how to box tim and how to fight tim, his experience would play a role. i think it would be a great fight, with cotto having a great shot at winning. hes got all the tools to neutralize bradley, good jab, greta bodyork, and decent defense. Also tim wouldnt really be able to hurt cotto with hsi lack of power. i think cottos bodywork might finally suck the steam outta tim, and his ability to use an effective jab would also fuck with tims offense. cotto can conterpunch as well whne he needs to. he has a great all around game. i really anna see this.

EDIT: i forgot to add in the fact that theyd be using 10oz gloves, which cotto prefers to use for defense like he expressed in the floyd fight. timmy power + tim in 10pz gloves = cotto walking through his ass. beware of the head cotto

This post has been edited by klonopinz: Nov 17 2013, 08:41 PM
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Cshel86
post Nov 17 2013, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE (klonopinz @ Nov 17 2013, 08:38 PM) *
of course there is. the fact that we are discussing this fight in a thread thats supposed to be about canelo and martinez says that there is interest amongst boxing purists, and we are the ones who set up the matches that the casual fans eventually gain interest in. i think it makes alot of sense financially for bob arum, and bob is ultimately in control right now. cotto is in a win win like you said so he doesnt really care. a 160 title is a nice dream, but the reality is fair at best. maybe making timmy come up to 154 may suit cotto. the fact that cotto is being trained by roach is also a plus because roach has alot of experience fighting against bradley, and hes knows how to box tim and how to fight tim, his experience would play a role. i think it would be a great fight, with cotto having a great shot at winning. hes got all the tools to neutralize bradley, good jab, greta bodyork, and decent defense. Also tim wouldnt really be able to hurt cotto with hsi lack of power. i think cottos bodywork might finally suck the steam outta tim, and his ability to use an effective jab would also fuck with tims offense. cotto can conterpunch as well whne he needs to. he has a great all around game. i really anna see this.

EDIT: i forgot to add in the fact that theyd be using 10oz gloves, which cotto prefers to use for defense like he expressed in the floyd fight. timmy power + tim in 10pz gloves = cotto walking through his ass. beware of the head cotto

Sounds pretty solid to me sir...
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mrchitown
post Nov 17 2013, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE (klonopinz @ Nov 17 2013, 08:38 PM) *
of course there is. the fact that we are discussing this fight in a thread thats supposed to be about canelo and martinez says that there is interest amongst boxing purists, and we are the ones who set up the matches that the casual fans eventually gain interest in. i think it makes alot of sense financially for bob arum, and bob is ultimately in control right now. cotto is in a win win like you said so he doesnt really care. a 160 title is a nice dream, but the reality is fair at best. maybe making timmy come up to 154 may suit cotto. the fact that cotto is being trained by roach is also a plus because roach has alot of experience fighting against bradley, and hes knows how to box tim and how to fight tim, his experience would play a role. i think it would be a great fight, with cotto having a great shot at winning. hes got all the tools to neutralize bradley, good jab, greta bodyork, and decent defense. Also tim wouldnt really be able to hurt cotto with hsi lack of power. i think cottos bodywork might finally suck the steam outta tim, and his ability to use an effective jab would also fuck with tims offense. cotto can conterpunch as well whne he needs to. he has a great all around game. i really anna see this.

EDIT: i forgot to add in the fact that theyd be using 10oz gloves, which cotto prefers to use for defense like he expressed in the floyd fight. timmy power + tim in 10pz gloves = cotto walking through his ass. beware of the head cotto


At the end of the day ain't no money in fighting Tim. He's a high risk low reward, sort of like Andre Ward..Miguel is reaching that light at the end of the tunnel, if I'm Miguel why the fuck would I waste my time fighting Bradley when I could go for a bigger paying bout with Martinez and make history or a even bigger fight in Canelo then fighting Mr can't draw flies to shit? At some point you have to stop thinking As a fan and look at the finances. That shit ain't bringing in no cash. NONE!

If you talking about Arum making money then that's different but theres nothing there for Cotto there. When you listen to Cotto talk, and this is even during the buildup to the rematch against Margarito, he makes it abundantly clear he fighting for that paper. Tell me what kind of money this shit would produce? I need a good laugh. I agree it is a match up that both have advantages in, I wouldn't like to see it though. The fact remains that Canelo and Martinez offer a service that Tim Bradley will never be able to offer. The world runs on money not dreams and this ain't shit but a fantasy matchup
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mrchitown
post Nov 17 2013, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 17 2013, 07:42 PM) *
If Arum could pull off a Bradley/Marquez fight, then surely he could push a Cotto/Bradley fight to the public.


He should be able to push it, he been promoting long enough. But where's the money. Cotto is the roadblock he fight for that paper. Ain't nobody outside of a Mayweather making no money on fighting this guy. Look at Cotto cycle. The old rinse wash repeat. He wins against mediocre talent steps up loses and.then does it again. I don't see why he'd waste his time fighting Tim. He's in a win-win situation fighting Sergio and Canelo. If he gets beaten by Bradley I'm not so sure GB would offer Canelo to him and I'm not sure a Martinez fight would materialize if he loses to Bradley. But you've said something about Miguel that's proven to be true CShel, he makes the worse business decisions ever
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Cshel86
post Nov 17 2013, 10:59 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Nov 17 2013, 09:53 PM) *
He should be able to push it, he been promoting long enough. But where's the money. Cotto is the roadblock he fight for that paper. Ain't nobody outside of a Mayweather making no money on fighting this guy. Look at Cotto cycle. The old rinse wash repeat. He wins against mediocre talent steps up loses and.then does it again. I don't see why he'd waste his time fighting Tim. He's in a win-win situation fighting Sergio and Canelo. If he gets beaten by Bradley I'm not so sure GB would offer Canelo to him and I'm not sure a Martinez fight would materialize if he loses to Bradley. But you've said something about Miguel that's proven to be true CShel, he makes the worse business decisions ever

I'm not sure about ANY of this shit anymore, lol.

When it comes to Top Rank, there's not much on the horizon for any of these guys. Most of them are waiting in the wings for the next guy to look good, so these fights can be made. I can picture Arum matching Cotto, with the guy (JMM) who beat the guy who beat him (KO'd Manny), who Bradley just beat (JMM)...if that makes any sense. Oh yeah, dont even ask, I just pulled off a nasty, senseless, triangle theory. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Honestly, if Cotto wants Arum to continue representing him, then that Canelo fight would have to wait. The only fight that I could see happening, is that Martinez fight. I think a Bradley fight would a "stay busy, but remain competitive" type of fight.

If Arum could afford to pay Tim and Juan the money that they made a couple of months ago, then I'm sure Cotto could pull in more than that. If all of those people showed up to see him tear DR up the way he did, then surely they'd pay money to see him face Bradley...the guy who beat the guy that beat Miguel (Manny), and also beat the guy who gave Manny 4 hard fights and KO's him. Lol

Before we even think further into it, the biggest question is, is Cotto paying Arum a flat fee for his services, or is it percentage based? Believe you me (yeah, I meant to say "believe you me"), if it's a percentage-based situation, then Arum's looking for what will make HIM (Arum) the most money...an in-house fight. If it's a flat fee (the same flat fee), then Arum doesn't have much to gain in that situation.

If he does lose to Bradley, then yes, a Canelo or Martinez fight would be out the window, you're absolutely right about that. As Professor mentioned, some guys aren't cut out to make their own business decisions, and Cotto is one of those guys. I'll ALWAYS mention how horrible he is (business wise), and that definitely came to a head when he took the Trout fight and lost.
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mrchitown
post Nov 17 2013, 11:35 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Nov 17 2013, 10:59 PM) *
I'm not sure about ANY of this shit anymore, lol.

When it comes to Top Rank, there's not much on the horizon for any of these guys. Most of them are waiting in the wings for the next guy to look good, so these fights can be made. I can picture Arum matching Cotto, with the guy (JMM) who beat the guy who beat him (KO'd Manny), who Bradley just beat (JMM)...if that makes any sense. Oh yeah, dont even ask, I just pulled off a nasty, senseless, triangle theory. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Honestly, if Cotto wants Arum to continue representing him, then that Canelo fight would have to wait. The only fight that I could see happening, is that Martinez fight. I think a Bradley fight would a "stay busy, but remain competitive" type of fight.

If Arum could afford to pay Tim and Juan the money that they made a couple of months ago, then I'm sure Cotto could pull in more than that. If all of those people showed up to see him tear DR up the way he did, then surely they'd pay money to see him face Bradley...the guy who beat the guy that beat Miguel (Manny), and also beat the guy who gave Manny 4 hard fights and KO's him. Lol

Before we even think further into it, the biggest question is, is Cotto paying Arum a flat fee for his services, or is it percentage based? Believe you me (yeah, I meant to say "believe you me"), if it's a percentage-based situation, then Arum's looking for what will make HIM (Arum) the most money...an in-house fight. If it's a flat fee (the same flat fee), then Arum doesn't have much to gain in that situation.

If he does lose to Bradley, then yes, a Canelo or Martinez fight would be out the window, you're absolutely right about that. As Professor mentioned, some guys aren't cut out to make their own business decisions, and Cotto is one of those guys. I'll ALWAYS mention how horrible he is (business wise), and that definitely came to a head when he took the Trout fight and lost.


Oh the beauty of triangle theories lol....i see what your saying and I see what klonopinz is saying too. I'd definitely watch it if the fight was made but I think it would be stupid on Miguel's part to accept that fight. They both have some key advantages that could be exploited by the other but for Cotto, all Tim knows how to do is win. It's like Creed's trainer told him in Rocky "he doesn't know it's a show he thinks it's a damn fight". He's one of those dudes like Danny and like a Molina who can fuck up a cup of coffee. Meaning he can ruin a promoter or the networks plans

Oh trust we all know Arum is looking to keep that money all in the Top a rank family and he doesn't have much to work on as far as match ups. He's running out of steam unless he keeps with the trend which is being the king of rematches. It's known that Schaefer offered 10mil for a fight with Canelo and I read a report that team Cotto and Team Canelo met with GB recently to further discuss it and lock it down for March 8th. Cotto is sitting in a pretty position because whi h ever network and promoter he goes to holds the key in Boxing because they'll have 2 of the 3 ppv attractions. That's a lot of power to have. Cotto may screw this up, I'm starting to wonder if he doesn't go back to Arum and make a deal to fight Martinez or even a Bradley or who ever. You never know with him
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