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> tired of the ongoing battle of Floyd PAC debates
mrchitown
post Dec 26 2013, 03:02 PM
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Pacquiao as far as his career isn't all hype but his run at WW and thru the fighters like ODLH, Hatton Cotto, etc...and up til now is 100% all hype
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Dolimite
post Dec 26 2013, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 26 2013, 12:02 PM) *
Pacquiao as far as his career isn't all hype but his run at WW and thru the fighters like ODLH, Hatton Cotto, etc...and up til now is 100% all hype

you just hate Manny. Floyd nuthugger
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mrchitown
post Dec 26 2013, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 26 2013, 04:53 PM) *
you just hate Manny. Floyd nuthugger


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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KOpower
post Dec 27 2013, 01:43 AM
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QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 25 2013, 09:39 PM) *
While am a Pac fan even I can ee the * next to these names so

Morales - Pretty drained for those two fights he lost and he was coming off a dominating loss
JMM - All the fights have been close aside from the last

Oscar- Drained, Oscars fault, he dictated the weight.

Hatton - His chin and lifestyle is what beat him but no fault to Manny

Cotto - Drained, Cotto broke Pacs eardrum I think? Wonder what the out come would be 2lb heavier

Clottey - It seems like this fight was fixed but who knows. Fuck Clottey mans a bitch

Margs - Drained, while clearly the way bigger man in the ring on fight night and still hurt Manny physically, I wonder what would of happened at 154lb

Mosley - Old, although he looked exactly the same he did vs Mayweather till he got his ass tagged and went into survival mode.

Bradley - Very close fight IMO closer than people give credit for, I did have it 8-4, Manny but after several watches I can see a draw

Rios - 1 Dimensional, Rios was there to make Pac look good, end of story.

So yeah...


Just terrible. I would never not give Floyd credit for beating guys like Canelo and JMM. Floyd won so convincingly against those 2 that the extra advantages he had mean nothing. The same goes for Manny. These excuses are so bad that I almost don't believe you are serious.

-Manny knocked Morales out in the final 2 fights. There isn't much debate there. Morals wasn't as good as he once was, but Manny still finished him off.

-The fights with JMM were all really close, I agree. Manny still went 2-1-1 against him and even the draw is controversial because one judge forgot how many times Manny knocked JMM down in the 1st round. If he gets that number right, Manny is 3-1 against JMM. With that being said I am perfectly fine with 2-1-1 because the 2 wins he had later were both really close.

-Oscar was drained, but Manny put a whipping on him. Like you said, the weight was OSCAR'S decision. I will say that the Oscar fight is the only Manny fight where I think the outcome may be different if they fought at a different weight. I still would pick Manny, but it would have been a much more competitive fight.

-Ricky had the same chin against Floyd. Do we not give Floyd credit for that win because Ricky had no chin? Manny DUSTED Ricky.

-Manny dominated Cotto. Cotto dropped 2 pounds but so did Canelo for the fight against Floyd and I still give Floyd full credit. Manny KO's Cotto at 147 the same way he did at 145.

-The Clottey fight was rigged? Are you serious? Clottey was a legitimate 147 pounder...a tough fighter that handled Zab Judah and damn near beat Cotto. Manny put a WHIPPING on him.

-Margarito got his head caved in by Manny. Manny almost took that man's vision. Margarito wasn't beating Manny at any weight. That was a really lopsided fight.

-Mosley was old, but Manny still beat him with ease

-I am glad we both agree about the Bradley fight

-Rios may have been a perfect match for Manny but that doesn't take away from the victory. Rios is no punk and Manny won almost every round of the fight

I can't think of many 140-147 pound fighters that could beat Manny over the last 10 years except Mayweather. I would LOVE to see Manny get in the ring with Garcia, Broner, Maidana, etc but that obviously won't happen. I don't see how anyone could think Manny at 140 or 147 is a fraud after his fights against Rios and Bradley. Those are 2 Top-10 147 pound fighters and he won both fights rather convincingly. Hopefully the rematch with Bradley happens so this whole thing can be put to bed.
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checkleft
post Dec 27 2013, 03:51 AM
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QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 27 2013, 02:43 AM) *
Just terrible. I would never not give Floyd credit for beating guys like Canelo and JMM. Floyd won so convincingly against those 2 that the extra advantages he had mean nothing. The same goes for Manny. These excuses are so bad that I almost don't believe you are serious.

-Manny knocked Morales out in the final 2 fights. There isn't much debate there. Morals wasn't as good as he once was, but Manny still finished him off.

-The fights with JMM were all really close, I agree. Manny still went 2-1-1 against him and even the draw is controversial because one judge forgot how many times Manny knocked JMM down in the 1st round. If he gets that number right, Manny is 3-1 against JMM. With that being said I am perfectly fine with 2-1-1 because the 2 wins he had later were both really close.

-Oscar was drained, but Manny put a whipping on him. Like you said, the weight was OSCAR'S decision. I will say that the Oscar fight is the only Manny fight where I think the outcome may be different if they fought at a different weight. I still would pick Manny, but it would have been a much more competitive fight.

-Ricky had the same chin against Floyd. Do we not give Floyd credit for that win because Ricky had no chin? Manny DUSTED Ricky.

-Manny dominated Cotto. Cotto dropped 2 pounds but so did Canelo for the fight against Floyd and I still give Floyd full credit. Manny KO's Cotto at 147 the same way he did at 145.

-The Clottey fight was rigged? Are you serious? Clottey was a legitimate 147 pounder...a tough fighter that handled Zab Judah and damn near beat Cotto. Manny put a WHIPPING on him.

-Margarito got his head caved in by Manny. Manny almost took that man's vision. Margarito wasn't beating Manny at any weight. That was a really lopsided fight.

-Mosley was old, but Manny still beat him with ease

-I am glad we both agree about the Bradley fight

-Rios may have been a perfect match for Manny but that doesn't take away from the victory. Rios is no punk and Manny won almost every round of the fight

I can't think of many 140-147 pound fighters that could beat Manny over the last 10 years except Mayweather. I would LOVE to see Manny get in the ring with Garcia, Broner, Maidana, etc but that obviously won't happen. I don't see how anyone could think Manny at 140 or 147 is a fraud after his fights against Rios and Bradley. Those are 2 Top-10 147 pound fighters and he won both fights rather convincingly. Hopefully the rematch with Bradley happens so this whole thing can be put to bed.

Rios actually is a punk. And he is highly overrated. But Whatevs

And Rickys massive downwards spiral after the mayweather fight has never been a secret, he drank and drugged himself constantly and left his lifelong trainer for the first time.

I feel that, yes there are too many advantages in some fights (not just speaking about mannys) but I can sit here and pretty much put an asterisk next to any win if you asked me to..

Btw a lot of judges don't score rounds less than 10-7, Idk if that is also common knowledge but I know its not rare for judges to keep it 10-7 even with multiple kds because they don't want to wipe away all chance of a fighter coming back in a fight.

This post has been edited by checkleft: Dec 27 2013, 03:55 AM
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KOpower
post Dec 27 2013, 09:30 AM
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-2 of the 3 judges had it 10-6 and the 3rd judge came out and admitted that he didn't get that 1st round right and that it should have been 10-6.

-So you are giving Mayweather full credit for beating Hatton but not Manny? Is that how it is? Even though Manny literally put his as* to sleep? Manny KO's Hatton no matter when they fight.

-The only fight I think the weight advantage may have had a big impact was the Oscar fight, but Manny beat him so badly that it is hard to see Oscar beating Manny at any weight. The Cotto thing is just an excuse. They fought at 145 and Cotto was a 147 pound fighter. Margarito was fought at 150 but Manny wasn't even a WW at the time. He was 144 pounds at the weigh-in. Manny beats Margarito at any weight.

I think you can put an * next to many fights for many fighters. There is always something someone can say. I won't do it to Floyd for his wins against JMM and Canelo so I won't do it to Manny for his wins against Cotto and Margarito. I think both fighters handle those 4 opponents the same way regardless of weight.

Even if you take out ALL of the catch weight fights Manny fought at the 140/147 pound weights, he still has dominating wins over Ricky Hatton, Josh Clottey, Shane Mosley, Brandon Rios, and a certain victory over Tim Bradley. Those 5 wins are all really impressive and prove that he is as legitimate as they come at the 140 and 147 pounds. Again, over the last 10 years how many 140/147 pound fighters would you put ahead of Manny? I can think of only 1 and that is Floyd. Manny was a boss at the lighter weights and then moved up and has been a boss at the 140/147 pound weight.
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Plah
post Dec 27 2013, 12:34 PM
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The Clottey fight was fixed and when he talked about it he (Clottey) was quickly put on the shelf. And Manny never, NEVER won the 2nd and 3rd fights with JMM. I think he barely won the first one though. I do give him credit for his fights below 140, but his "147 and 154 runs" are all hype and smoke & mirrors.
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mrchitown
post Dec 27 2013, 02:23 PM
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I'm going to start giving out "the Shaq face of the day" on here lol....how one can argue that Pacquaio's run to being an 8 division world champ wasn't over hyped is beyond foolish.

Let's look at facts here

ODLH, in his prime he would've dusted Manny and maybe, just maybe he would've beat Mayweather. But when he fought Manny it was over for him. He looked like shit against Steve Frobes, and he was weight drained. Manny's own trainer, Freddie Roach was talking about he knew they had it in the bag when they saw the IV marks

Then he fights Hatton who was a shell of himself after being KO'd by Mayweather. Who also looked like shit in his wins over Lazcano and Malinaggi. Then he fights Manny and gets world starred

Then he fights Cotto, who got murdered damn near by Margarito. Then Miguel comes back and looks like shit against Michael Jennings, and then turns in a performance in which I, and many others thought he lost against Joshua Clottey. He was getting worked over something serious in that fight and probably only got the nod because he's a name who had a big fight lined up. Then he's drained coming into the fight with Manny. Say what you want about the Canelo fight but it's different when your in your early 20's as opposed to almost or at the other side of 30. And he got beat badly the year before and looked like a shell of himself sine that fight.

Now we have Clottey, who I don't think it was fixed but he just shelled up. After this came the Margarito fight, this is the guy who was never the same after plaster gate, Got beat soundly by Shane and looked like trash against Roberto Garcia, then fights Manny and has his eye fucked something serious

Notice a pattern here, stop me when I'm lying but who has he fought that's looked good in their previous fights? They've all looked like trash coming into their fights with him. Including Tim, his first fight under the TR banner was less then stellar on the performance side by him and he still hung in there and made a supposed elite fighter look ordinary. Manny didn't beat him convincingly, how does that happen when you only fight 30 secs to a min of every round. The more I look at that fight the more Manny deserved to lose

Shane was done, coming off a loss and a draw. JMM in the eyes of many, beat him in the 3rd fight, Bradley lost imo but Manny didn't help his case. He's known for activity but didn't show any. Then he gets the best sleep he'll ever have against Marquez and low and behold he comes back to boxing fighting Brandon Rios whose coming off of a loss and should have lost to Abril. He should've been 1-2 coming into that fight and he fought like a fighter whose 1-2 in his last 3 bouts

I just want to know when he started his run, who did Manny Pacquiao face that looked impressive in their previous outings. I'm a fan of Manny, he's good for boxing, and I feel bad about his current tax troubles, but his career over the weight of 135 is weak

This post has been edited by mrchitown: Dec 27 2013, 02:24 PM
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KOpower
post Dec 27 2013, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 27 2013, 02:23 PM) *
I'm going to start giving out "the Shaq face of the day" on here lol....how one can argue that Pacquaio's run to being an 8 division world champ wasn't over hyped is beyond foolish.

Let's look at facts here

ODLH, in his prime he would've dusted Manny and maybe, just maybe he would've beat Mayweather. But when he fought Manny it was over for him. He looked like shit against Steve Frobes, and he was weight drained. Manny's own trainer, Freddie Roach was talking about he knew they had it in the bag when they saw the IV marks

Then he fights Hatton who was a shell of himself after being KO'd by Mayweather. Who also looked like shit in his wins over Lazcano and Malinaggi. Then he fights Manny and gets world starred

Then he fights Cotto, who got murdered damn near by Margarito. Then Miguel comes back and looks like shit against Michael Jennings, and then turns in a performance in which I, and many others thought he lost against Joshua Clottey. He was getting worked over something serious in that fight and probably only got the nod because he's a name who had a big fight lined up. Then he's drained coming into the fight with Manny. Say what you want about the Canelo fight but it's different when your in your early 20's as opposed to almost or at the other side of 30. And he got beat badly the year before and looked like a shell of himself sine that fight.

Now we have Clottey, who I don't think it was fixed but he just shelled up. After this came the Margarito fight, this is the guy who was never the same after plaster gate, Got beat soundly by Shane and looked like trash against Roberto Garcia, then fights Manny and has his eye fucked something serious

Notice a pattern here, stop me when I'm lying but who has he fought that's looked good in their previous fights? They've all looked like trash coming into their fights with him. Including Tim, his first fight under the TR banner was less then stellar on the performance side by him and he still hung in there and made a supposed elite fighter look ordinary. Manny didn't beat him convincingly, how does that happen when you only fight 30 secs to a min of every round. The more I look at that fight the more Manny deserved to lose

Shane was done, coming off a loss and a draw. JMM in the eyes of many, beat him in the 3rd fight, Bradley lost imo but Manny didn't help his case. He's known for activity but didn't show any. Then he gets the best sleep he'll ever have against Marquez and low and behold he comes back to boxing fighting Brandon Rios whose coming off of a loss and should have lost to Abril. He should've been 1-2 coming into that fight and he fought like a fighter whose 1-2 in his last 3 bouts

I just want to know when he started his run, who did Manny Pacquiao face that looked impressive in their previous outings. I'm a fan of Manny, he's good for boxing, and I feel bad about his current tax troubles, but his career over the weight of 135 is weak



Like I said, you want to give Floyd full credit for beating Canelo and Manny little credit for beating Cotto. It amazes me that you can't even be consistent. Floyd plays by 1 set of rules in your eyes while Manny plays by another. Both Canelo and Cotto had to drop weight by 2 pounds prior to the fight, yet somehow Cotto was in such a compromising situation because he was 27 while Canelo was 24? What the heck kind of logic is that?

The lack of logic by you is insane. Does Manny have 1 legitimate win in the 140 or 147 pound division? I mean literally...just 1? I can't believe the lengths you go to to try and discredit Manny's wins against 140 and 147 pound fighters. You just won't allow yourself to admit that Manny has been outstanding against those 140 and 147 pounders.

Like I said, even if you take away wins against Oscar, Mosley, Margarito, and Cotto, Manny still has wins over LEGITIMATE 140/147 guys like Clottey, Hatton, Rios, and Bradley (assuming we all admit Manny won that fight). I give Manny full credit for the Cotto. fight. The way he beat Cotto down was something I didn't expect. That was probably the best performance of his career and it would have happened even if Cotto was 147...the same way Canelo would of been handled by Floyd if he was at 154.
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Dolimite
post Dec 27 2013, 05:45 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 27 2013, 12:23 PM) *
I'm going to start giving out "the Shaq face of the day" on here lol....how one can argue that Pacquaio's run to being an 8 division world champ wasn't over hyped is beyond foolish.

Let's look at facts here

ODLH, in his prime he would've dusted Manny and maybe, just maybe he would've beat Mayweather. But when he fought Manny it was over for him. He looked like shit against Steve Frobes, and he was weight drained. Manny's own trainer, Freddie Roach was talking about he knew they had it in the bag when they saw the IV marks

Then he fights Hatton who was a shell of himself after being KO'd by Mayweather. Who also looked like shit in his wins over Lazcano and Malinaggi. Then he fights Manny and gets world starred

Then he fights Cotto, who got murdered damn near by Margarito. Then Miguel comes back and looks like shit against Michael Jennings, and then turns in a performance in which I, and many others thought he lost against Joshua Clottey. He was getting worked over something serious in that fight and probably only got the nod because he's a name who had a big fight lined up. Then he's drained coming into the fight with Manny. Say what you want about the Canelo fight but it's different when your in your early 20's as opposed to almost or at the other side of 30. And he got beat badly the year before and looked like a shell of himself sine that fight.

Now we have Clottey, who I don't think it was fixed but he just shelled up. After this came the Margarito fight, this is the guy who was never the same after plaster gate, Got beat soundly by Shane and looked like trash against Roberto Garcia, then fights Manny and has his eye fucked something serious

Notice a pattern here, stop me when I'm lying but who has he fought that's looked good in their previous fights? They've all looked like trash coming into their fights with him. Including Tim, his first fight under the TR banner was less then stellar on the performance side by him and he still hung in there and made a supposed elite fighter look ordinary. Manny didn't beat him convincingly, how does that happen when you only fight 30 secs to a min of every round. The more I look at that fight the more Manny deserved to lose

Shane was done, coming off a loss and a draw. JMM in the eyes of many, beat him in the 3rd fight, Bradley lost imo but Manny didn't help his case. He's known for activity but didn't show any. Then he gets the best sleep he'll ever have against Marquez and low and behold he comes back to boxing fighting Brandon Rios whose coming off of a loss and should have lost to Abril. He should've been 1-2 coming into that fight and he fought like a fighter whose 1-2 in his last 3 bouts

I just want to know when he started his run, who did Manny Pacquiao face that looked impressive in their previous outings. I'm a fan of Manny, he's good for boxing, and I feel bad about his current tax troubles, but his career over the weight of 135 is weak


+1 :llI honestly think that he lost against MAB in their second fight . Manny,'s career has more questions than answers.
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 27 2013, 02:49 PM) *
Like I said, you want to give Floyd full credit for beating Canelo and Manny little credit for beating Cotto. It amazes me that you can't even be consistent. Floyd plays by 1 set of rules in your eyes while Manny plays by another. Both Canelo and Cotto had to drop weight by 2 pounds prior to the fight, yet somehow Cotto was in such a compromising situation because he was 27 while Canelo was 24? What the heck kind of logic is that?

The lack of logic by you is insane. Does Manny have 1 legitimate win in the 140 or 147 pound division? I mean literally...just 1? I can't believe the lengths you go to to try and discredit Manny's wins against 140 and 147 pound fighters. You just won't allow yourself to admit that Manny has been outstanding against those 140 and 147 pounders.

Like I said, even if you take away wins against Oscar, Mosley, Margarito, and Cotto, Manny still has wins over LEGITIMATE 140/147 guys like Clottey, Hatton, Rios, and Bradley (assuming we all admit Manny won that fight). I give Manny full credit for the Cotto. fight. The way he beat Cotto down was something I didn't expect. That was probably the best performance of his career and it would have happened even if Cotto was 147...the same way Canelo would of been handled by Floyd if he was at 154.

how many opponents of Floyd's before fighting him had controversy leading up to their fight? Manny is an exciting fighter but his opponents a la Rios, Margarito etc were tailor made for him. Answer this, why did Manny refuse testing? That is what makes me question his entire career.
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