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> FLOYD VS KHAN??? Anyone out there interested....
Cshel86
post Jan 24 2014, 12:42 PM
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"The Meanest Nice Guy"


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QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 24 2014, 12:30 PM) *
Making a ton of money makes you a smart business man, not an all time great, and even that it was more Al Haymons doing than Mayweathers.

Being an all-time great is just as subjective as P4P rankings...how can anybody TRULY measure that? Seriously...I mean give me something factual, unbiased, and measurable to work with, before I draw the conclusion that you're possibly butthurt MG.
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truth
post Jan 24 2014, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 24 2014, 12:00 PM) *
How do YOU know that he can actually win this fight? I've gone on several rants about guys giving Floyd the "W" for fights that he hasn't even fought yet...this being a shining example. You're still holding on to the fact that Martinez's max weight is 167, which you're trying to use that factual number I gave and spin in to your advantage...don't waste your time with that.

As I already mentioned...there's a difference between rehydration weight and fight weight. Along with those pounds, comes "strength" and "comfort". Martinez has strength and comfort at MW, and in turn has that same strength and comfort to keep a MW off of him...IF that MW is no more than a certain weight. He sure as hell couldn't keep Julio and Murray off of him, could he? He had to move, A LOT.

The same goes for Floyd...I'm almost sure that he wont have the true strength to keep Sergio off of him, in the event that it comes down to that. I say that because mofos were giving Broner the "W" for several fights that he hadn't fought...which included the upcoming Maidana fight. What happened during the first 20 seconds of the fight? Broner was trying to turn Maidana and got caught with an equilibrium shot that put him in a bad spot for the WHOLE fight. I'm sure he planned to come in there and MOVE, box, and "dog" Maidana in spurts...not once did he anticipate that.

So NO, we CAN'T give Floyd the "W" for a Martinez fight, regardless of his skill level, Sergio's health, or this phantom weight balance that you're working so hard to make sense of. Floyd has fought WWs who put on 15+ lbs over night, but that weight advantage worked in HIS advantage...we ALL see how Sergio fights when he puts on LESS than 10 lbs over night...he's agile and the small weight gain doesn't bother him at all...he can still move and keep up a decent pace for 12 rounds...may not be in Mayweather's best interest to face that type of still at that weight.

How agile was Oscar and Canelo after they put all of that weight on overnight? Not that great. Cotto on the other hand, is a small JMW, and he actually moved very swiftly in that fight...floyd didn't look all that great in that fight...not that he looked all that bad...but it wasn't a walk in the park.

Let me go ahead and clear this up for the retards who will probably say "you just don't want Floyd to lose his '0'". My response would be to immediately STFU, because its Floyd's '0', not mine. The guy will never get credit for the current shit that he does, so I could care less.

I find it funny that Floyd's fans want him to keep breaking records and so on...like move up to MW and win a title. Yall are the fools that are putting this in the minds of these trolls who constantly discredit Floyd's career anyway...so the fact that you're saying he "should" (not "needs to", but "should) move up to MW and win a title, you're giving these trolls ammunition to discredit what he's done.

Not only that, but you want him to move up to fight what you're pretty much describing as the "easiest" of the MWs....but how is Floyd "challenging" himself by moving up and winning an "easy" fight??? Didn't Broner do that by moving up to WW and fighting the "safest" fight in that division? We all saw how that turned out in his title defense...regardless of his skill level, which was highly compared by some of you all, as "Floyd's" level.

Help me out here...if you don't feel like he needs to take the fight to "cement his legacy", then why are you even entertaining it????



i entertain for simply this reason i dont believe there is not anyone from 140 to 154 who can beat may that said you know,enough to realize broner is not on floyds level and unless he is ko by one punch floyd is smart enough to adapt like he did when he was rocked by Mosley. Just like when Martinez fought Chavez and Martinez won i believe floyd could win. When it comes to casual fans i could care less about what they i not talking to a casual fan i speaking to you. We both watch boxing and not just Floyd and we are making our points. I will say i understand your point of view its just not mine
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Cshel86
post Jan 24 2014, 01:48 PM
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QUOTE (truth @ Jan 24 2014, 01:11 PM) *
i entertain for simply this reason i dont believe there is not anyone from 140 to 154 who can beat may that said you know,enough to realize broner is not on floyds level and unless he is ko by one punch floyd is smart enough to adapt like he did when he was rocked by Mosley. Just like when Martinez fought Chavez and Martinez won i believe floyd could win. When it comes to casual fans i could care less about what they i not talking to a casual fan i speaking to you. We both watch boxing and not just Floyd and we are making our points. I will say i understand your point of view its just not mine

You say that you don't care what casual fans say or do, but your statement about "I don't believe there is not anyone from 140 to 154 who can beat May", proves that you're in that same casual fan category. ANYBODY can be beaten in this sport...real fans know that.

I know for a fact that Broner isn't on Floyd's level...I was just using his situation in comparison to Floyd's...where people automatically give him the "W" for fights that he hasn't even fought yet. I wont even sit here and posts the names of some of those faithful Broner Believers before the Maidana fight...hell, some of those clowns even believed that he would give Floyd trouble. LOL

I watch boxing and NOT just Floyd fights...I cant say the same about you. You're never around here, unless we're talking about Floyd, so I don't exactly pinpoint what fights you watch. As far as interest level is concerned...I only see you in Floyd threads. I'm just sayin'

Honestly, I believe that Floyd has a high chance of retiring undefeated, and trust me, I take ZERO pleasure in saying that. I'm aware that you feel that nobody can beat him, but you gave me a bunch of casual fan rebuttal and stuff regarding your feelings about the situation...hardly any of it was factual.

We can both have our own points of view on it...no biggie there. Problem is, I can see several challenges in your future, regarding your points of view...and I'll be the first to say that you're gonna have a hard time backing it up. Anytime somebody challenges you on your point, you immediately go into "feelings" mode and make claims that somebody's kicking you while you're down or downtalking you because you're relatively new around here. Not a good look at all, my man...not a good look.
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HyyerBlaze
post Jan 24 2014, 02:37 PM
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How is Floyd gonna say Pacquiao ain't on his level then fight Amir "Danny Garcia's leftovers" Khan?


Don't even want to bring Manny into this cuz shit is old and basically over it but Floyd is such a fucking hypocrite.

Ortiz.
Guerrero.
Khan.


All these guys a B level fighters.


I will be streaming this fight for free. Aint worth the money.
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klonopinz
post Jan 24 2014, 05:30 PM
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i wish mayweather would just retire, i loved the guy for years but im just sick of him and all the posers that are now on his dick that didnt even know who he was before he came out of retirement. i think boxing will be better off without mayweather at this point because him bveing here is forcing guys to take dives just for paydays, most of the people he fights we know he will beat, and he says thae same shit voer and voer in all his tv shows now, its old, im tired of it, ive been watching it for 9 years. anybody else feel this way
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mrchitown
post Jan 24 2014, 05:43 PM
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Great debate going on here! I can understand the thinking on both sides, Grover brought up a nice point when he said Making a ton of money makes you a smart business man, not an all time great, and even that it was more Al Haymons doing than Mayweathers. And when he said Doesn't really matter what I think, it's more the consensus, maybe in 20 years we'll know, he'll probably be seen in the same light as Rocky Marciano.

Cshel also had a great point when he said Being an all-time great is just as subjective as P4P rankings...how can anybody TRULY measure that? Seriously...I mean give me something factual, unbiased, and measurable to work with, before I draw the conclusion that you're possibly butthurt MG.

ATG status is very subjective, so much so that no one's list or criteria is the same as Cshel pointed out. And Grover is right, the general consensus says this stuff about Floyd. But out of that general consensus, are they fans? Do they watch the boxing after dark cards, the ESPN FNF cards, can they name 1 champ in each division? I don't know, I think this general consensus who says he's not an ATG is those who didn't start watching him fight until the Oscar fight or the ones who believe the stuff that Arum says

While I doubt he'll be viewed in any way as Marciano because Rocky, was over-rated when he was fighting and I can't say the same for Mayweather, I do think he'll be appreciated more in retirement then he is now. I think if he doesn't fight "the other guy" he will never live that down but all in all I think these beer guzzlers who pack bars once or twice a year will come around when their sober and realize that he's a top guy. I think Wlad and Vitali are 2 others who'll be appreciated more in retirement. But in regards to Mayweahter, did he not cement his greatness even in the lower weight classes? I find it laughable to say he's not an ATG, his resume below 147 is quite impressive. Why is it when he fights someone they never had a chance but after that same fighter, like in Cotto's case currently, he's stellar again lol

People say Miguel fights the best competition, ok lol....me and Cshel have talked at length on here about how he says he fights for the highest purses, miss me with this dare to be an ATG shit because it ain't true. He's a PR Mayweather, just not as good lol. Don't take my word for it, google is your friend, he's said htis without even being asked by a media member. It ain't no surprise that he isn't fight Canelo where he would be the B-side and Canelo probably gets more of the revenue as opposed to fighting Martinez whose been looking for a bone for yrs now

ATG status is subjective but I've always said the ones who are considered ATG's get criticized the most, then when they retire wala magic they are beloved by the same simpletons who booe'd them. I bet SRL wonders how many of them dudes asking for his autograph today kicked shit on him in his fighting career. SRL gets crap today for not fighting the Hawk, Ali is an ATG but he still gets shit for losing the 1st Frazier fight, Nobody really talks about that massacre he put on him in the 3rd fight. People give SRR for fighting for the purses he fought for (surprise surprise). He did the same exact thing that Mayweather is doing now, but how many of you detractors on here or know of any detractors of Mayweather give SRR the same scrutiny? That's even if some of you know who he even is...my point is, if your not great then no one talks about you, Mayweather's doing something right. I just feel for him because many who says he needs to do more are hypocrites

He's blazing his own trail, yet we as the boxing community, can't respect that, we have to have him do what somebody else did. SRL, Duran, Hearns, SRR fought at MW, why can't Floyd? That is a ridiculous argument, what ever happened to setting yourself apart, being different from those before you? Mayweather is the most scrutinized athlete in the history of sports. Before he fought Canelo, people on this forum, and in the boxing community said Mayweather took a big risj, a challenge blah blah blah, when that final bell rang the same people said he didn't do nothing special, he beat up on an inexperienced fighter. We're penalizing him for being great but yer we sit here and question his greatness...wtf lol. I don't rank or look at fighter's careers until their done but regardless Mayweather has introduced random testing to the sport, record purses, record gates, record attendances for his fights, record revenue...and he's beaten Castillo, Corrales, Hatton, Mosley, Cotto, ODLH, Canelo, Genaro Hernandez, Judah and more....if he's not an ATG then it's no such thing as one

Also, its funny how when he was with Arum, this shit was never up for debate. Fans, media alike were saying he's so special, the best etc etc, and some already said he was an ATG....then when he struck out on his own, his standing within the world boxing was questioned. I'm sure there are multiple reasons for this but I'll leave that one alone
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mrchitown
post Jan 24 2014, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE (klonopinz @ Jan 24 2014, 04:30 PM) *
i wish mayweather would just retire, i loved the guy for years but im just sick of him and all the posers that are now on his dick that didnt even know who he was before he came out of retirement. i think boxing will be better off without mayweather at this point because him bveing here is forcing guys to take dives just for paydays, most of the people he fights we know he will beat, and he says thae same shit voer and voer in all his tv shows now, its old, im tired of it, ive been watching it for 9 years. anybody else feel this way


Agreed, the world didn't start paying serious attention to him until he fought Oscar imo, and then really started paying extra attention in 09 when he fought Marquez. Many of these so called fans don't even know hwo he beat for his 1st championship

At the last part, not so much lol....I appreciate what I'm witnessing. The same way I do with Bernard Hopkins, there will never be another Hopkins or Mayweather, so while I have a chance to witness what they do best I'm going to take full advantage of it. I say to you what I say to Broner detractors, don't like it, turn it off and let those who do worry about it. Nobody's forcing you, can't complain over something you do over and over

This post has been edited by mrchitown: Jan 24 2014, 05:48 PM
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Dolimite
post Jan 24 2014, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jan 24 2014, 03:43 PM) *
Great debate going on here! I can understand the thinking on both sides, Grover brought up a nice point when he said Making a ton of money makes you a smart business man, not an all time great, and even that it was more Al Haymons doing than Mayweathers. And when he said Doesn't really matter what I think, it's more the consensus, maybe in 20 years we'll know, he'll probably be seen in the same light as Rocky Marciano.

Cshel also had a great point when he said Being an all-time great is just as subjective as P4P rankings...how can anybody TRULY measure that? Seriously...I mean give me something factual, unbiased, and measurable to work with, before I draw the conclusion that you're possibly butthurt MG.

ATG status is very subjective, so much so that no one's list or criteria is the same as Cshel pointed out. And Grover is right, the general consensus says this stuff about Floyd. But out of that general consensus, are they fans? Do they watch the boxing after dark cards, the ESPN FNF cards, can they name 1 champ in each division? I don't know, I think this general consensus who says he's not an ATG is those who didn't start watching him fight until the Oscar fight or the ones who believe the stuff that Arum says

While I doubt he'll be viewed in any way as Marciano because Rocky, was over-rated when he was fighting and I can't say the same for Mayweather, I do think he'll be appreciated more in retirement then he is now. I think if he doesn't fight "the other guy" he will never live that down but all in all I think these beer guzzlers who pack bars once or twice a year will come around when their sober and realize that he's a top guy. I think Wlad and Vitali are 2 others who'll be appreciated more in retirement. But in regards to Mayweahter, did he not cement his greatness even in the lower weight classes? I find it laughable to say he's not an ATG, his resume below 147 is quite impressive. Why is it when he fights someone they never had a chance but after that same fighter, like in Cotto's case currently, he's stellar again lol

People say Miguel fights the best competition, ok lol....me and Cshel have talked at length on here about how he says he fights for the highest purses, miss me with this dare to be an ATG shit because it ain't true. He's a PR Mayweather, just not as good lol. Don't take my word for it, google is your friend, he's said htis without even being asked by a media member. It ain't no surprise that he isn't fight Canelo where he would be the B-side and Canelo probably gets more of the revenue as opposed to fighting Martinez whose been looking for a bone for yrs now

ATG status is subjective but I've always said the ones who are considered ATG's get criticized the most, then when they retire wala magic they are beloved by the same simpletons who booe'd them. I bet SRL wonders how many of them dudes asking for his autograph today kicked shit on him in his fighting career. SRL gets crap today for not fighting the Hawk, Ali is an ATG but he still gets shit for losing the 1st Frazier fight, Nobody really talks about that massacre he put on him in the 3rd fight. People give SRR for fighting for the purses he fought for (surprise surprise). He did the same exact thing that Mayweather is doing now, but how many of you detractors on here or know of any detractors of Mayweather give SRR the same scrutiny? That's even if some of you know who he even is...my point is, if your not great then no one talks about you, Mayweather's doing something right. I just feel for him because many who says he needs to do more are hypocrites

He's blazing his own trail, yet we as the boxing community, can't respect that, we have to have him do what somebody else did. SRL, Duran, Hearns, SRR fought at MW, why can't Floyd? That is a ridiculous argument, what ever happened to setting yourself apart, being different from those before you? Mayweather is the most scrutinized athlete in the history of sports. Before he fought Canelo, people on this forum, and in the boxing community said Mayweather took a big risj, a challenge blah blah blah, when that final bell rang the same people said he didn't do nothing special, he beat up on an inexperienced fighter. We're penalizing him for being great but yer we sit here and question his greatness...wtf lol. I don't rank or look at fighter's careers until their done but regardless Mayweather has introduced random testing to the sport, record purses, record gates, record attendances for his fights, record revenue...and he's beaten Castillo, Corrales, Hatton, Mosley, Cotto, ODLH, Canelo, Genaro Hernandez, Judah and more....if he's not an ATG then it's no such thing as one

Also, its funny how when he was with Arum, this shit was never up for debate. Fans, media alike were saying he's so special, the best etc etc, and some already said he was an ATG....then when he struck out on his own, his standing within the world boxing was questioned. I'm sure there are multiple reasons for this but I'll leave that one alone

See LeBron James when he left Cleveland.

All this shit is a matter of opinion and opinions are not facts. 10 years from now maybe even 5 people will appreciate what FMJ did for the sport. you don't know what you got till its gone. I am sure when the greats of the 70s and 80s were fighting people bitched as well.
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mrchitown
post Jan 24 2014, 10:24 PM
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QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 24 2014, 08:15 PM) *
[/b]
See LeBron James when he left Cleveland.

All this shit is a matter of opinion and opinions are not facts. 10 years from now maybe even 5 people will appreciate what FMJ did for the sport. you don't know what you got till its gone. I am sure when the greats of the 70s and 80s were fighting people bitched as well.


I'm sure they did as well. To me it's unjustified criticism
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mgrover
post Jan 25 2014, 06:01 AM
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QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 24 2014, 05:42 PM) *
Being an all-time great is just as subjective as P4P rankings...how can anybody TRULY measure that? Seriously...I mean give me something factual, unbiased, and measurable to work with, before I draw the conclusion that you're possibly butthurt MG.


i am god damn butthurting, this curry almost killed me haha. While it's a subjective, I thought there was an unspoken rule that it was about who you faced and beat?
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