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> How do we rate legacy?, Old school heirarchy...
hookoffthejab
post Feb 10 2014, 07:38 PM
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I've been wrecking my brain to figure out how we rate the legacy of our favorite fighters. I grew up in the 80s Ray Leonard was my favorite. To this day people clamor over Ray and it is well deserved, however i look back and try to access exactly what we saw and what the media told us we saw. In 36 fights we saw Duran 3x Hearns 2x Hagler and Benitez.....Leonard Duran 1....Ray was 5'10 had fought as high as 160 in his rookie year..and Duran was a 5'7 lightweight moving up to Welterweight...Ray lost that fight then won the rematch....Hearns 1 was a matchup of 2 welterweight champs Ray 25 and TH 22..... Ray won in dramatic fashion...The Hagler fight was 4 years past its date but still a great feat....People say today's fighters fight for the money but Ray made 12 million vs Duran in 1980......THAT IS A TON OF MONEY FOR A FIGHTER TODAY....So Im hoping someone can break Ray Leonards legacy down to me it looks thin.
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mgrover
post Feb 11 2014, 06:47 AM
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They shouldn't clamour over him, he never wanted to win fights in the ring but always wanted every advantage he could get, hes stated several times that he knew Duran would balloon up thats why he wanted the fight as soon as possible, he stated that after the Mugabi fight Hagler wasn't the same fighter that's why he decided to fight him then, etc etc. He was always looking for something extra because he clearly had doubt somewhere in him.
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wolterb
post Feb 11 2014, 08:57 AM
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Well the notion that todays boxers fight for money and that yesteryears didn't is just not true. Can't fault ray for making good money. I think the reason he stands out today is the same reason why he made the $$ he did. He was a very talented, very fast fighter with a playful personality. Bein a great athlete with a good personality or at least a good public persona pays dividends.

But rating legacies is murky business. To me its a combination of quantity and quality.

This post has been edited by wolterb: Feb 11 2014, 09:05 AM
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Franchize
post Feb 11 2014, 09:46 AM
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Never was a fan of Ray Leonard. Don't get me wrong. He's a legend and a tremendous fighter. That being said, a lot of things fighters often get criticized for, gets swept under the rug when it comes to SRL. He wanted no parts of of Aaron Pryor or a Hagler rematch. According to a lot of people, he was didn't want Julian Jackson, Nigel Benn or Iran Barkley either. Also, he did a lot of Joe Calzaghe-esque things in his fights. Once again, not saying the man isn't an all time great, but he did a lot of bullshit shoe-shining shit that wasn't really landing but was flashy and getting him points he shouldn't really be getting.
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wolterb
post Feb 11 2014, 09:53 AM
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^ good points...his bout with hagler is a great example of him Calzaghe'ing, winning via crowd decision.
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hookoffthejab
post Feb 11 2014, 10:59 AM
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Ray is the only legend that I know that will openly admit to ducking admit to getting the bouts all in his favor getting his ass kicked and still be regarded as top 10 some say top 5 of all time.....That baffles me.....
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wolterb
post Feb 11 2014, 12:03 PM
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^ people have a hard-on for that era, so his name is going to be on the tops of most "lists" you see floating around. still, you can't take too sizeable shit on him - he won titles in the welterweight, middleweight and light heavyweight classes. Before that he won American Olympic gold. if you know boxing, maybe leonard doesn't make the top cut on your list but he was a good fighter worthy of memory.
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mrchitown
post Feb 11 2014, 12:22 PM
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Ray Leonard one of the GOAT's. When I look at the things being said about him and what he did I find it humorous. Then we should be looking at a lot of fighters the same way because they did the same thing. Like it or not but out of the four kings he sits atop the throne. He whooped all of them. And he did it in impressive fashion

As far as rating legacy, it's so selective it'll drive you crazy bit I think skills, resume, achievements etc should be taken into consideration

This post has been edited by mrchitown: Feb 11 2014, 12:23 PM
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Cshel86
post Feb 11 2014, 01:44 PM
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Good points guys! I think we had this discussion a couple of weeks ago, and we pretty much settled it at "it's subjective"...different people look for different things when considering a fighter as an ATG.

If I remember correctly (though I may be wrong), SRL admitted a lot of this stuff after his career concluded. If that was entirely the case, then I can't blame him. Once you've fought and became great in your era, people only remember that much.

If a guy like Tyson can admit that he was scared before fights, doubted himself, etc. AFTER his career and still be respected, then surely SRL can. That's the best time to do it...AFTER your career is over. At that point, fans in your era would have truly matured and respected you not only as a fighter, but a man...a human being, rather.

Besides, those documentaries, highlights narrated by the fighter, and deep dark secrets, is what keeps fighters relevant after their career.

Again, legacy, ATG status, HOF status is subjective...most of all, it takes a substantial amount of time to make those determinations.
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BoxingEinstein
post Feb 11 2014, 01:55 PM
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We rate them like we always do....with opposition levels, being active, risks taken, height/weight advantages or disadvantages, ring performance, and through winning or losing.

Honourable mention: Longevity
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