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> Is Floyd the first boxing savant?
readydog72
post Mar 10 2014, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 10 2014, 07:03 PM) *
Let's start backwards on your post:

What fighters Floyd "SORTA" avoids???

I disagree that Canelo lacked experience, dude has as many fights as Mayweather, he was made to look that way, look how he outclassed Mosley and Angulo and on top of that gave Trout a run for his money. You stating that Saul lacked experience sounds like an excuse not to give Mayweather his credit.

Young Mosley, old Mosley-either of them would've been beaten by Floyd because Shane did the same thing he has always done in the sport of boxing-his style never changed.

Zab-didn't do as well as people were making it seem as he did, go and re-watch that fight and see how Floyd made him expend his energy uselessly as Floyd Sr had already told his son that Judah was a Frontrunner (meaning he uses up his gas early and slows down quickly enough to be taken apart), we saw what happened by the end of the fight and he had about as much a chance of winning vs Floyd as Shane did and you see how he lost; Zab fouled out-hit the ballsack to avoid getting KO'd so I'm not sure why you thought this fight was even close.

For everyone you mentioned Saul, Zab and Shane you provided an excuse or some lame reasoning as to why you "thought" they had the better chance or didn't measure up, why not just add that up to Floyd's ability to take away their normal dominance over their previous opponents and give him the credit he deserves for being the one to exploit them??

Floyd has faced every style you can find in the sport of boxing and he has solved them all with relative ease for the most part, give us a description of a style he hasn't faced or mastered, if you cannot provide one then therein lies the proof that he is a boxing Savant.


First off i am a Mayweather fan. Im not trying to make any excuses for any of these guys.
Many boxers avoided the late Paul Williams, Floyd isn't alone there.
About Zab and Shane, i said had a chance, based on their speed and quickness. Floyd dismantled the both of them, i watched both fights several times. He took everything from them like he has done for sometime.
Zab knocked him down and Shane landed the hardest and cleanest shot ever on him.
I love to watch Floyd but he and his camp hand picked Guerrero, Ortiz, Marquez, Hatton, Baldomir and now Maidana.
Saul does have a bunch of fights but not many quality ones. Check his sheet.
Im not taking any credit away from Floyd Im saying he is at a point that he is so good that none of these guys pose a challenge anymore, and he knows this.
Like you're saying he has seen every style. He has a counter for just about everything we have seen.
Maidana may be a champ but regardless he is mediocre and will be dominated bad.
I cannot and probably will not be able to give a clear answer on if he is a Savant because nobody has ever placed him in trouble. His adjustments decimate the competition.
Were Roy and Ali both Savants?

This post has been edited by readydog72: Mar 10 2014, 07:40 PM
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Aware
post Mar 10 2014, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (readydog72 @ Mar 10 2014, 06:56 PM) *
First off i am a Mayweather fan. Im not trying to make any excuses for any of these guys.
Many boxers avoided the late Paul Williams, Floyd isn't alone there.
About Zab and Shane, i said had a chance, based on their speed and quickness. Floyd dismantled the both of them, i watched both fights several times. He took everything from them like he has done for sometime.
Zab knocked him down and Shane landed the hardest and cleanest shot ever on him.
I love to watch Floyd but he and his camp hand picked Guerrero, Ortiz, Marquez, Hatton, Baldomir and now Maidana.
Saul does have a bunch of fights but not many quality ones. Check his sheet.
Im not taking any credit away from Floyd Im saying he is at a point that he is so good that none of these guys pose a challenge anymore, and he knows this.
Like you're saying he has seen every style. He has a counter for just about everything we have seen.
Maidana may be a champ but regardless he is mediocre and will be dominated bad.
I cannot and probably will not be able to give a clear answer on if he is a Savant because nobody has ever placed him in trouble. His adjustments decimate the competition.
Were Roy and Ali both Savants?


You don't see it and maybe you can't. Yes he's been in trouble. The Mosley fight, with Corley, and Zab. They all buzzed him good. And no Ali and Roy are not boxing savants. You've seen Ali's rope-a-dope and then Mayweather took it to a whole new level against N'dou. What people don't understand is that no one has ever done it like that before. Roy's style needed Roy to be in his physical prime to be the best. Those two counter rights Mayweather landed against De La Hoya off the ropes - never been seen before. He set that up many rounds before by going to the ropes again and again but not throwing anything, just being patient until he knew it was safe. The touch jab that caused Canelo to drop his guard for the perfect counter right. That's just the obvious shit man. The clench bro, the one I mentioned in the first post, watch it! It's so funny to me some people just don't get it. Every time out he adjusts his style and you see something is a little different against each opponent - a slightly different look. He is the first boxer to be able to adapt effortlessly in real time and solve his opponent. If Sugar Ray Leonard had half of the brain Mayweather has he would have been able to adjust to Duran in the first fight and beat him. Instead, he tried the same thing over and over again which gave him no more than a 50/50 chance. He had the physical advantage.
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Aware
post Mar 10 2014, 09:25 PM
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Rigondeaux is the only other boxer in the world I've seen that even comes close. Rigondeaux is to Mayweather as Andre Ward is to Hopkins.

This post has been edited by Aware: Mar 10 2014, 09:26 PM
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BrutUalBK
post Mar 10 2014, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE (readydog72 @ Mar 10 2014, 05:56 PM) *
First off i am a Mayweather fan. Im not trying to make any excuses for any of these guys.
Many boxers avoided the late Paul Williams, Floyd isn't alone there.
About Zab and Shane, i said had a chance, based on their speed and quickness. Floyd dismantled the both of them, i watched both fights several times. He took everything from them like he has done for sometime.
Zab knocked him down and Shane landed the hardest and cleanest shot ever on him.
I love to watch Floyd but he and his camp hand picked Guerrero, Ortiz, Marquez, Hatton, Baldomir and now Maidana.
Saul does have a bunch of fights but not many quality ones. Check his sheet.
Im not taking any credit away from Floyd Im saying he is at a point that he is so good that none of these guys pose a challenge anymore, and he knows this.
Like you're saying he has seen every style. He has a counter for just about everything we have seen.
Maidana may be a champ but regardless he is mediocre and will be dominated bad.
I cannot and probably will not be able to give a clear answer on if he is a Savant because nobody has ever placed him in trouble. His adjustments decimate the competition.
Were Roy and Ali both Savants?



No Roy or Ali were not boxing savants, once Jones lost his reflexes he was what I thought he was=Fundamentally flawed!! Roy was never a master of the basic boxing fundamentals and he always made mistakes which when he was at his peak he was able to get away with but once his reflexes vacated we saw those mistakes being exposed over and over again and again.

Ali showed early into his career that he wasn't a Savant; he lost to Frazier and his lack of a great defense and the fact that he needed 3 fights to definitely beat him was proof that he lacked the sound fundamental adjustment on the fly to take him clearly above Joe Frazier, the same can be said of him in his losses to Ken Norton and this is especially true of him losing to a guy like Leon Spinks who only had 7 fights at the time he beat Ali.

Floyd has shown with his defensive and offensive abilities that he doesn't rely on reflexes as he is 37 and still at the top of the boxing game, he has slowed down immensely but his fundamentals and mastery of boxing is so sound that he rarely makes anything that can be considered a mistake and if you couple that with his split second ability to make major or even minor adjustments on the fly and solve even the most challenging of styles or situations where he has gotten into trouble only to come out totally dominant.
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Aware
post Mar 10 2014, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 10 2014, 09:43 PM) *
No Roy or Ali were not boxing savants, once Jones lost his reflexes he was what I thought he was=Fundamentally flawed!! Roy was never a master of the basic boxing fundamentals and he always made mistakes which when he was at his peak he was able to get away with but once his reflexes vacated we saw those mistakes being exposed over and over again and again.

Ali showed early into his career that he wasn't a Savant; he lost to Frazier and his lack of a great defense and the fact that he needed 3 fights to definitely beat him was proof that he lacked the sound fundamental adjustment on the fly to take him clearly above Joe Frazier, the same can be said of him in his losses to Ken Norton and this is especially true of him losing to a guy like Leon Spinks who only had 7 fights at the time he beat Ali.

Floyd has shown with his defensive and offensive abilities that he doesn't rely on reflexes as he is 37 and still at the top of the boxing game, he has slowed down immensely but his fundamentals and mastery of boxing is so sound that he rarely makes anything that can be considered a mistake and if you couple that with his split second ability to make major or even minor adjustments on the fly and solve even the most challenging of styles or situations where he has gotten into trouble only to come out totally dominant.


Word up man! We're on the same wavelength.
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MAHDI
post Mar 10 2014, 09:48 PM
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I agree with the poster... I ADD THAT BERNARD HOPKINS IS A SAVANT AS WELL and has been distinguished as such ...

This post has been edited by MAHDI: Mar 10 2014, 09:49 PM
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Aware
post Mar 10 2014, 09:58 PM
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QUOTE (MAHDI @ Mar 10 2014, 09:48 PM) *
I agree with the poster... I ADD THAT BERNARD HOPKINS IS A SAVANT AS WELL and has been distinguished as such ...


No doubt Hopkins is one of the most brilliant fighters to ever lace up the gloves, but I wouldn't label him a savant. I think there has to be something transcendent and innate about the talent to be a savant. Like Tiger Woods has in golf, doing things no one has ever seen before. Mayweather born into it. Hopkins got into the game a little late and he just doesn't do some of the little things Mayweather does naturally.

This post has been edited by Aware: Mar 10 2014, 09:59 PM
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Aware
post Mar 10 2014, 10:07 PM
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Put it this way, Hopkins seems like a smart guy that has applied his intelligence towards boxing whereas Mayweather's brain was already hardwired for it.
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MAHDI
post Mar 10 2014, 10:27 PM
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GENETICS and evolution...
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readydog72
post Mar 10 2014, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE (Aware @ Mar 10 2014, 10:12 PM) *
You don't see it and maybe you can't. Yes he's been in trouble. The Mosley fight, with Corley, and Zab. They all buzzed him good. And no Ali and Roy are not boxing savants. You've seen Ali's rope-a-dope and then Mayweather took it to a whole new level against N'dou. What people don't understand is that no one has ever done it like that before. Roy's style needed Roy to be in his physical prime to be the best. Those two counter rights Mayweather landed against De La Hoya off the ropes - never been seen before. He set that up many rounds before by going to the ropes again and again but not throwing anything, just being patient until he knew it was safe. The touch jab that caused Canelo to drop his guard for the perfect counter right. That's just the obvious shit man. The clench bro, the one I mentioned in the first post, watch it! It's so funny to me some people just don't get it. Every time out he adjusts his style and you see something is a little different against each opponent - a slightly different look. He is the first boxer to be able to adapt effortlessly in real time and solve his opponent. If Sugar Ray Leonard had half of the brain Mayweather has he would have been able to adjust to Duran in the first fight and beat him. Instead, he tried the same thing over and over again which gave him no more than a 50/50 chance. He had the physical advantage.


oh i see now whats up with this thread for sure.

that's 3 fighters who got shots in on Floyd that mattered. He may have lost 4/36 rounds.
The corley fight was before he started hand picking the likes of Guerrero, Ortiz, Marquez, Hatton, Baldomir and now Maidana.

I believe Floyd is one of the Top 3 fighters 130-154 of all-time but Savant that's going too far. Maybe if he trains another fighter to do what he has then maybe.
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