Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Jermain Taylor - Kelly Pavlik (Topics Merged)
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
Pages: 1, 2
caneman
i don't see where taylor has anything to keep pavlik off him & i don't see taylor putting on any boxing clinic anytime soon! if pavlik can walk right threw pantera's punches, i believe he will laugh @ taylors! i have pavlik by KO or TKO inside of 8 rounds in a total ass whipping aggressive.gif
Southeastpaw
Agreed 100% caneman. Although I think that Taylor has the power to sting Pavlik, I still think that Pavlik's power and pressure is going to overwhelm Taylor and put him out a little past the midway point of the fight.
caneman
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Aug 8 2007, 06:14 PM) [snapback]353245[/snapback]
Agreed 100% caneman. Although I think that Taylor has the power to sting Pavlik, I still think that Pavlik's power and pressure is going to overwhelm Taylor and put him out a little past the midway point of the fight.



but hell taylor couldn't even stop spinks...the same spinks that was stopped by judah!!! i don't see how taylor can sting too bad when pavlik took everything pantera had to give! i ain't saying taylor has no pop but if he didn't hurt cory how will he hurt pavlik drinks.gif
NickBarker
Pavlik is probably a lot easier to hit than Spinks, but I agree with you about Taylor's lack of power. It really is astounding that such a superb athlete who is so large for a middleweight could possess such average punching power.
caneman
no doubt pavlik will be easier to hit than spinks but it won't matter in the end IMO! i just hope taylor is favored cause i will be betting on this one if so!
Jack 1000
I think that Pavlik is too strong for Taylor. While I thought Jermain beat Hopkins by the most microscopic of margins in both fights, his lackluster showing against Cory Spinks and a faded Hopkins show that Taylor is an over-rated champion. Pavlik is like a machine in the ring and he just keeps coming. Lamply will be looking to swing from the nuts of the HBO contracted fighter Taylor, but in the end, after Pavlik finds the range and gets inside, he will wear Taylor out and stop him. (One can only hope.....who would you rather have as a champion? An exciting slugger like Kelly Pavlik or a mythodical boxer like Jermain Taylor?)

I prefer Kelly Pavlik and would like him to win by KO. I think he will do that.

Pavlik KO 10.

Jack
salvador
QUOTE(caneman @ Aug 8 2007, 02:45 PM) [snapback]353228[/snapback]
i don't see where taylor has anything to keep pavlik off him & i don't see taylor putting on any boxing clinic anytime soon! if pavlik can walk right threw pantera's punches, i believe he will laugh @ taylors! i have pavlik by KO or TKO inside of 8 rounds in a total ass whipping aggressive.gif


I have a tough time believing that anyone would compare Miranda with JT. Miranda, though totally exciting, ain't even remotely in JT's league. Seriously, what would Miranda/Hopkins or Miranda/Wright have looked like? Does anyone really think that Miranda could have landed ANYTHING against Winky or Hopkins? Taylor is a HUGE step up in competition for Pavlik, and the idea that he's just going to walk right through Taylor's punches and land at will is crazy.

And the idea that Taylor can fight Hopkins twice and never be close to being ko'd but is somehow going to get stopped by a slow, predictable, much easier to hit guy like Pavlik is a bit absurd. Obviously Pavlik could catch him with a shot on the chin, but Taylor could do the same thing.

With so many here thinking that Pavlik is going to take this easily, I seriously wonder what the odds will be. I would think on name recognition alone, JT would be the heavy favorite, but maybe it'll be even odds. If it is, I'm taking JT all day. He's too athletic and too experienced to let a straightforward guy like Pavlik beat him.

Taylor will be shooting that jab more against Pavlik than he has in the last 5 fights for no other reason that Pavlik will be eating every one of them if he comes straight in. And if Pavlik keeps walking in straightforward, Taylor's jab is going to be the difference in this fight.
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 8 2007, 08:10 PM) [snapback]353267[/snapback]
I have a tough time believing that anyone would compare Miranda with JT. Miranda, though totally exciting, ain't even remotely in JT's league. Seriously, what would Miranda/Hopkins or Miranda/Wright have looked like? Does anyone really think that Miranda could have landed ANYTHING against Winky or Hopkins? Taylor is a HUGE step up in competition for Pavlik, and the idea that he's just going to walk right through Taylor's punches and land at will is crazy.

And the idea that Taylor can fight Hopkins twice and never be close to being ko'd but is somehow going to get stopped by a slow, predictable, much easier to hit guy like Pavlik is a bit absurd. Obviously Pavlik could catch him with a shot on the chin, but Taylor could do the same thing.

With so many here thinking that Pavlik is going to take this easily, I seriously wonder what the odds will be. I would think on name recognition alone, JT would be the heavy favorite, but maybe it'll be even odds. If it is, I'm taking JT all day. He's too athletic and too experienced to let a straightforward guy like Pavlik beat him.

Taylor will be shooting that jab more against Pavlik than he has in the last 5 fights for no other reason that Pavlik will be eating every one of them if he comes straight in. And if Pavlik keeps walking in straightforward, Taylor's jab is going to be the difference in this fight.


I think you are being way to harsh and not fair to Pavlik's skill. He is not that slow and he puts together good punches. I would give Miranda a better chance at beating Taylor than I would Pavlik. Miranda cannot fight going backwards. Pavlik's natural style killed Miranda. JT does not pressure like Pavlik. And we all saw JT get wobbled by a man that punches lighter than Miranda and Pavlik. I would not say that Miranda is crap just for the fact that he beat Green and gave Abraham all he could handle. I really believe that Pavlik is the goods. I think that most boxing experts and analysts are going to go with Pavlik in this fight, but I believe that many general fans will pick JT because of his close fights with Hopkins and Winky. When was the last time Taylor faced a fighter who could punch? While JT beat Ouma, he was not comfortable with the pressure. Now he is facing someone with a high workrate like Ouma, only bigger and more powerful. I honestly feel that JT is going to get stopped this fight.
caneman
QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 8 2007, 08:10 PM) [snapback]353267[/snapback]
I have a tough time believing that anyone would compare Miranda with JT. Miranda, though totally exciting, ain't even remotely in JT's league. Seriously, what would Miranda/Hopkins or Miranda/Wright have looked like? Does anyone really think that Miranda could have landed ANYTHING against Winky or Hopkins? Taylor is a HUGE step up in competition for Pavlik, and the idea that he's just going to walk right through Taylor's punches and land at will is crazy.

And the idea that Taylor can fight Hopkins twice and never be close to being ko'd but is somehow going to get stopped by a slow, predictable, much easier to hit guy like Pavlik is a bit absurd. Obviously Pavlik could catch him with a shot on the chin, but Taylor could do the same thing.

With so many here thinking that Pavlik is going to take this easily, I seriously wonder what the odds will be. I would think on name recognition alone, JT would be the heavy favorite, but maybe it'll be even odds. If it is, I'm taking JT all day. He's too athletic and too experienced to let a straightforward guy like Pavlik beat him.

Taylor will be shooting that jab more against Pavlik than he has in the last 5 fights for no other reason that Pavlik will be eating every one of them if he comes straight in. And if Pavlik keeps walking in straightforward, Taylor's jab is going to be the difference in this fight.



while i see what you are saying but the only way i even close to compared the 2 was by punching! i am saying pavlik took pantera's shots & kept rolling but i'll tell you what bro, wanna do a sig beat? if pavlik wins i make your sig & if JT wins you can make mine! JT's jab ain't gonna do anything to pavlik & he doesn't throw it backing up anyhow & in that way i can compare the 2 fights!!! so lets bet on it bro!
caneman
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Aug 8 2007, 08:30 PM) [snapback]353269[/snapback]
I think you are being way to harsh and not fair to Pavlik's skill. He is not that slow and he puts together good punches. I would give Miranda a better chance at beating Taylor than I would Pavlik. Miranda cannot fight going backwards. Pavlik's natural style killed Miranda. JT does not pressure like Pavlik. And we all saw JT get wobbled by a man that punches lighter than Miranda and Pavlik. I would not say that Miranda is crap just for the fact that he beat Green and gave Abraham all he could handle. I really believe that Pavlik is the goods. I think that most boxing experts and analysts are going to go with Pavlik in this fight, but I believe that many general fans will pick JT because of his close fights with Hopkins and Winky. When was the last time Taylor faced a fighter who could punch? While JT beat Ouma, he was not comfortable with the pressure. Now he is facing someone with a high workrate like Ouma, only bigger and more powerful. I honestly feel that JT is going to get stopped this fight.



well stated brother drinks.gif
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(stateofthegame @ Jun 23 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]344395[/snapback]
I agree Brutal. I was also thinking back to the Hopkins fights. Jermain did extremely well when he was on the attack, but when Hopkins finally went on the attack Jermain could not handle backing up. It has been the same in the Wright and Ouma fights. I feel Pavlik is going to pressure him until he knocks him out.



In JT's defense, he was going after Hopkins and missing alot. I dont think he misses nearly as much with Pavlik. I think many things that did not work with Wright, Hopkins and Spinks WILL work against Pavlik. All 3 of those guys are safety 1st guys. All 3 nullify a jab as good as anyone I've ever seen. I think with Ouma, Taylor was trying to KO Ouma early and gassed himself early in the fight. Taylor will have his chances with Pavlik. I'm gonna go with taylor by tko. I do think both guys see the floor. I dont really see this fight going more than 3 or 4 rounds. It may resemble a toughman competion for 3 or 4 rounds. Both guys will throw and land alot of punches until somebody is TKO'd
salvador
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Aug 8 2007, 08:30 PM) [snapback]353269[/snapback]
I think that most boxing experts and analysts are going to go with Pavlik in this fight, but I believe that many general fans will pick JT because of his close fights with Hopkins and Winky.


Well, one expert, Lou Dibella, disagrees with you. I'd say he knows boxing and he knows how much money he, personally, is risking by having JT fight Pavlik before putting him in with Calzaghe.

On a side note, I'll just assume that the above statement was meant in the broadest possible terms and was the furthest thing imaginable from a direct attack on my credibility as a boxing analyst. laugh.gif
salvador
QUOTE(caneman @ Aug 8 2007, 08:38 PM) [snapback]353271[/snapback]
while i see what you are saying but the only way i even close to compared the 2 was by punching! i am saying pavlik took pantera's shots & kept rolling but i'll tell you what bro, wanna do a sig beat? if pavlik wins i make your sig & if JT wins you can make mine! JT's jab ain't gonna do anything to pavlik & he doesn't throw it backing up anyhow & in that way i can compare the 2 fights!!! so lets bet on it bro!


I've already got a bet with Brutal, so I'll pass on doubling down as I think Pavlik is a very real threat. That said, I'd love to know what a sig bet is.

My point with Miranda was that those punches would never have hit Winky or Hopkins in the first place. I love Miranda, but he makes Mayorga look like Sweet Pea. I think that the fact that Miranda was able to land so many punches against Pavlik is a major concern, far outweighing the fact that Pavlik was able to take so many clean shots so well.

I really think that JT is due for a legacy fight, and I have this wierd feeling that this is it.


caneman
QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 9 2007, 02:50 AM) [snapback]353291[/snapback]
I've already got a bet with Brutal, so I'll pass on doubling down as I think Pavlik is a very real threat. That said, I'd love to know what a sig bet is.

My point with Miranda was that those punches would never have hit Winky or Hopkins in the first place. I love Miranda, but he makes Mayorga look like Sweet Pea. I think that the fact that Miranda was able to land so many punches against Pavlik is a major concern, far outweighing the fact that Pavlik was able to take so many clean shots so well.

I really think that JT is due for a legacy fight, and I have this wierd feeling that this is it.



signature (pics and/or words) bet bro! say you got JT & he wins, you get to make my sig(you know like those girls on the bottom of my post?)but if pavlik wins i get to make yours & we keep it there for a said amount of time,whatever, a week or a month! HOLLA @ A CRACKER BRUH! laugh.gif
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 9 2007, 02:38 AM) [snapback]353290[/snapback]
Well, one expert, Lou Dibella, disagrees with you. I'd say he knows boxing and he knows how much money he, personally, is risking by having JT fight Pavlik before putting him in with Calzaghe.

On a side note, I'll just assume that the above statement was meant in the broadest possible terms and was the furthest thing imaginable from a direct attack on my credibility as a boxing analyst. laugh.gif


LOL! Did not mean for it to come out that way with attacking your credibility on knowledge of the sport. I have read enough of your posts to realize that you are very knowledgable. I just think that your a bit off on Pavlik. I just think that most experts, most, not all, would disagree with your harsh assessment of Pavlik. I mean, some experts had to have been giving Gatti a chance at Mayweather to actually have him in the ring with him. Like McGirt. lol.

salvador
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Aug 9 2007, 12:07 PM) [snapback]353316[/snapback]
LOL! Did not mean for it to come out that way with attacking your credibility on knowledge of the sport. I have read enough of your posts to realize that you are very knowledgable. I just think that your a bit off on Pavlik. I just think that most experts, most, not all, would disagree with your harsh assessment of Pavlik. I mean, some experts had to have been giving Gatti a chance at Mayweather to actually have him in the ring with him. Like McGirt. lol.


I think Pavlik's great and I think this will be a close fight, I just don't think Pavlik is going to be able to sustain his attack against Taylor because Taylor has much better defense than Miranda and also because Taylor has a better jab. If Taylor commits to the jab, I think Pavlik's workrate will diminish sharply.

The truth is that I'm already hoping there's a rematch here because I sincerely feel this is going to be a really brutal fight. I can't wait!

And as far as McGirt Baby is concerned, I think it's at least possible that he was counting on Floyd being Gatti's last big payday. It's the only explaination I can think of for that.
neophyte7
Pavlik was hit by a wide swinging Miranda. HE SHOWED a tremendous chin. TAYLOR cannot even KO small guys. Taylor does not have the best punching technique. he may not be as wide with his shots as Miranda, but he can look rather sloppy in there. he is not a good boxer at all and his stamina is quite questionable. I see Pavlik stopping him because Taylor does not hit hard enough.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 9 2007, 02:50 AM) [snapback]353291[/snapback]
I've already got a bet with Brutal, so I'll pass on doubling down as I think Pavlik is a very real threat. That said, I'd love to know what a sig bet is.


What's our bet again Sal? I already forgot.
salvador
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 13 2007, 07:42 PM) [snapback]353933[/snapback]
What's our bet again Sal? I already forgot.


You know, we hadn't gotten specific. We just kind of agreed that, assuming that the odds were reasonably close to even, we were going to bet a modest amount of money and split the casino spread down the middle, which actually sounds like a bit more trouble than it's worth. Probably a better way to go would be to put a Fighthype or B-talk t-shirt on it or something low key like that. Or maybe we could bet some kind of get out of jail free card regarding one purely mean spirited post like, "Fuck you, you're wrong you ugly fucking idiot."

I'll leave it up to you.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 14 2007, 01:53 AM) [snapback]354000[/snapback]
You know, we hadn't gotten specific. We just kind of agreed that, assuming that the odds were reasonably close to even, we were going to bet a modest amount of money and split the casino spread down the middle, which actually sounds like a bit more trouble than it's worth. Probably a better way to go would be to put a Fighthype or B-talk t-shirt on it or something low key like that. Or maybe we could bet some kind of get out of jail free card regarding one purely mean spirited post like, "Fuck you, you're wrong you ugly fucking idiot."

I'll leave it up to you.


I'm cool with any bet you want to go with. Depending on the odds (they are even -115 now most places) I will likely risk between $500 and $1000. If I can get Pavlik to win for +120 or wider I will likely go $1000 on Pavlik to win. If the odds stay steady at where they are now, I'll probably only go $500 on Pavlik to win. If I can find some final result odds with Pavlik by stoppage at 9-5 or even 3-2 I'll probably go with half on that result and half on Pavlik just to win. The over/under isn't worth touching on this fight because I believe the sportsbooks have it spot on which is surprising.

Anyway, once the fight gets closer let me know what you're willing to risk and we can set something up. Like I said I'll be risking money regardless of our bet, and I'd rather you win money from me if I lose than some sportsbook =)
hardhead
Hey Brutal how do you bet on these fights?? Online, real life??
Southeastpaw
I believe BBS uses Monopoly money. smile.gif
_iodine_
I really don't think Pavlik is going to be much of a betting underdog, here. You know HBO is going to be favoring Pavlik. Ring Magazine favors Pavlic. Fighthype.com favors Pavlik. Every other boxing website and publication is probably favoring Pavlik, Hell, even MANNY FUCKIN STEWARD is favoring Pavlik, and yet every single one of these entities is probably banking on the fact that he is still going to be the underdog come fight night. thus wouldn't the boxing public follow suit? I think all of the intrigue involved in assuming he is going to be the underdog is going to make the odds pretty much even.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(hardhead @ Aug 14 2007, 07:53 PM) [snapback]354105[/snapback]
Hey Brutal how do you bet on these fights?? Online, real life??


I use mostly sportsbook.com but have used other sites as well.
caneman
i sure hope taylor is favored but the only thing he has going for him is better comp! http://www.myspace.com/kellytheghost
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(caneman @ Aug 15 2007, 09:03 AM) [snapback]354146[/snapback]
i sure hope taylor is favored but the only thing he has going for him is better comp! http://www.myspace.com/kellytheghost


I agree that the odds will be near even, but if anyone is to be favored it will be Taylor.

rusty_trombone
Based on Pavlik's recent performances, and Taylors' recent lack of performance, I like Pavlik by kO. But I wouldn't be surprised if Jermain jabs and moves around wll enough to win, but I think Pavlik might check his chin in this fight,
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Aug 16 2007, 10:58 PM) [snapback]354295[/snapback]
Based on Pavlik's recent performances, and Taylors' recent lack of performance, I like Pavlik by kO. But I wouldn't be surprised if Jermain jabs and moves around wll enough to win, but I think Pavlik might check his chin in this fight,


Taylor left his jab in the ring the last time he fought Hopkins and we have not seen it since.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 16 2007, 11:03 PM) [snapback]354296[/snapback]
Taylor left his jab in the ring the last time he fought Hopkins and we have not seen it since.



To JT's credit, he did use the jab in both Hopkins fights. The 2nd fight, he tried to be economic with it. In his fight with Winky, he really couldnt jab because Winky keeps his guard up exclusively. He wounded Winky with straights down the pipe. In the Ouma fight, he SHOULD have used it, but I think he tried to KO Ouma within the first 3. Thus he admittedly gassed himself early and had to really suck it up to the finish. And who really hits Spinks with a jab?? Spinks is taylor made NOT to get hit with a jab. BTW does it seem like I'm reaching???

I think the jab will resurface in the Pavlik fight. Pavlik will come straight forward. Taylor wont have to do much to find him. If Taylor does use the jab, I expect a fairly easy night for him. IF he wants to bang with Pavlik, then its gonna be a rough fight for both guys. My bet is that Taylor FINALLY gets to hit somebody with his jab and box to the best of his ability. I think he gets Pavlik late.
salvador
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Aug 16 2007, 11:46 PM) [snapback]354297[/snapback]
To JT's credit, he did use the jab in both Hopkins fights. The 2nd fight, he tried to be economic with it. In his fight with Winky, he really couldnt jab because Winky keeps his guard up exclusively. He wounded Winky with straights down the pipe. In the Ouma fight, he SHOULD have used it, but I think he tried to KO Ouma within the first 3. Thus he admittedly gassed himself early and had to really suck it up to the finish. And who really hits Spinks with a jab?? Spinks is taylor made NOT to get hit with a jab. BTW does it seem like I'm reaching???

I think the jab will resurface in the Pavlik fight. Pavlik will come straight forward. Taylor wont have to do much to find him. If Taylor does use the jab, I expect a fairly easy night for him. IF he wants to bang with Pavlik, then its gonna be a rough fight for both guys. My bet is that Taylor FINALLY gets to hit somebody with his jab and box to the best of his ability. I think he gets Pavlik late.


excellent analysis
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 17 2007, 01:38 AM) [snapback]354300[/snapback]
excellent analysis


LOL I knew you'd agree with him Sal =)

While I can see the argument for not using the jab against Spinks and Wright as much, there is NO EXCUSE for Taylor not using it against Ouma. For this reason I feel that Taylor simply has abandoned that weapon from his toolbox for whatever reason. Saying that it will "resurface" against Pavlik is reaching and wishful thinking. Pavlik like Ouma has a come forward and throw punches style - if Taylor didn't use the jab against Ouma what makes you think he would against Pavlik? Pavlik is bigger, stronger and hits harder than Ouma, and we all saw how bothered Taylor was by Ouma. I just do not see how Taylor makes it through this fight.

rusty_trombone
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 16 2007, 11:03 PM) [snapback]354296[/snapback]
Taylor left his jab in the ring the last time he fought Hopkins and we have not seen it since.

That's true, but with Manny in his corner, I wouldn't be surprised if it made a return appearence.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Aug 17 2007, 10:13 AM) [snapback]354315[/snapback]
That's true, but with Manny in his corner, I wouldn't be surprised if it made a return appearence.


Manny has been in his corner and it has not made a return appearance. It's not like he just brought Manny on.

Nobudius
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Aug 16 2007, 09:46 PM) [snapback]354297[/snapback]
To JT's credit, he did use the jab in both Hopkins fights. The 2nd fight, he tried to be economic with it. In his fight with Winky, he really couldnt jab because Winky keeps his guard up exclusively. He wounded Winky with straights down the pipe. In the Ouma fight, he SHOULD have used it, but I think he tried to KO Ouma within the first 3. Thus he admittedly gassed himself early and had to really suck it up to the finish. And who really hits Spinks with a jab?? Spinks is taylor made NOT to get hit with a jab. BTW does it seem like I'm reaching???


You make some interesting observations, but to be gassed trying to knock out Ouma doesn't sit well with me.

I actually think his endurance sucks.

caneman
i wanna know how his jab will work with no intentions being stuck in the corner....and pavlik will be there to hit but that bullshit that JT will be throwing won't mean shit! I'LL TAKE ON ANY SIG BETS FOR THIS FIGHT BUT WARNING HERE JT IS GETTING KTFO!
BrutalBodyShots
I too think Taylor's stamina is questionable. In all of his recent fights he isn't able to maintain a moderate workrate without having to rest on the ropes and eat punches. Maybe he's struggling too much to make 160? Who knows.

The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Nobudius @ Aug 17 2007, 05:29 PM) [snapback]354360[/snapback]
You make some interesting observations, but to be gassed trying to knock out Ouma doesn't sit well with me.

I actually think his endurance sucks.



I agree about the stamina issue with Taylor. He gets winded a bit too easily. That could be trouble in the later rounds against Pavlik. I can see JT getting winded midfight and Pavlik coming on ala Hopkins. However, I think JTs jab will have done significant damage in the early going to get Pavlik's respect. JT is what Mayweather calls a frontrunner. He survived against Hopkins who is a much better fighter than Pavlik.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Aug 18 2007, 12:52 AM) [snapback]354388[/snapback]
I agree about the stamina issue with Taylor. He gets winded a bit too easily. That could be trouble in the later rounds against Pavlik. I can see JT getting winded midfight and Pavlik coming on ala Hopkins. However, I think JTs jab will have done significant damage in the early going to get Pavlik's respect. JT is what Mayweather calls a frontrunner. He survived against Hopkins who is a much better fighter than Pavlik.


Here we go again with Taylor's jab that we have not seen in 3 fights.

Also, Taylor "survived" against Hopkins who is a much better fighter than Pavlik, but do you think Taylor would have survived if Hopkins had

A: The punching power of Pavlik
B: Threw as many punches as Pavlik (double Hopkins' output)

?


Nobudius
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Aug 17 2007, 10:52 PM) [snapback]354388[/snapback]
I agree about the stamina issue with Taylor. He gets winded a bit too easily. That could be trouble in the later rounds against Pavlik. I can see JT getting winded midfight and Pavlik coming on ala Hopkins. However, I think JTs jab will have done significant damage in the early going to get Pavlik's respect. JT is what Mayweather calls a frontrunner. He survived against Hopkins who is a much better fighter than Pavlik.


The thing is, he was trying to take Ouma out WITHOUT having him hurt-he doesn't set anything up, or follow through any progresions. He WASTES lots of energy as well.

And at this stage, while X may be a better fighter than Pavlik, Pavlik is MUCH more dangerous to knock his arse out. X is now a tactical old man that conserves his energy-Taylor will survive that every time they fight(although I think he did some damage to JT mentally). If JT can't hurt or keep Pavlik honest, the state of Arkansas should be prepared for the inevitable.
salvador
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 18 2007, 06:11 AM) [snapback]354396[/snapback]
Here we go again with Taylor's jab that we have not seen in 3 fights.

Also, Taylor "survived" against Hopkins who is a much better fighter than Pavlik, but do you think Taylor would have survived if Hopkins had

A: The punching power of Pavlik
B: Threw as many punches as Pavlik (double Hopkins' output)

?


Good questions. Here are two more for you:

Do you think Hopkins would have "survived" against Taylor if:

A. Hopkins had been as easy to hit as Pavlik?
B. Hopkins had the far lesser counterpunching accuracy of Pavlik?



Kijis Konar
Pavlik will bring the pain and beat a scared Taylor by UD, although based on how Winky was able to rock him, it's quite possible for him to get the stoppage.

The important thing is that the biggest fraud in boxing today will lose his belt.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 18 2007, 06:11 AM) [snapback]354396[/snapback]
Here we go again with Taylor's jab that we have not seen in 3 fights.

Also, Taylor "survived" against Hopkins who is a much better fighter than Pavlik, but do you think Taylor would have survived if Hopkins had

A: The punching power of Pavlik
B: Threw as many punches as Pavlik (double Hopkins' output)

?



I think Sal stole my thunder. I already explained why JT's jab disappeared in those fights. I agree with you that he SHOULD have used it against Ouma, but didnt because he was going for the early KO. I also think we are overrating Pavlik's power. It took him several rounds and several flush punches to get miranda out of there. I think he has a high punch output. Will Pavliks output be that high against a guy that can drill him twice to his once.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(Nobudius @ Aug 18 2007, 12:13 PM) [snapback]354412[/snapback]
If JT can't hurt or keep Pavlik honest, the state of Arkansas should be prepared for the inevitable.



Agree
salvador
QUOTE(Kijis Konar @ Aug 18 2007, 11:03 PM) [snapback]354451[/snapback]
Pavlik will bring the pain and beat a scared Taylor by UD,


Taylor might be overrated, but the idea that he would be afraid of Pavlik when he stared down Hopkins twice is a bit rediculous.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 18 2007, 02:53 PM) [snapback]354415[/snapback]
Good questions. Here are two more for you:

Do you think Hopkins would have "survived" against Taylor if:

A. Hopkins had been as easy to hit as Pavlik?
B. Hopkins had the far lesser counterpunching accuracy of Pavlik?


oooooooooh fantastic questions!!!

A. Pavlik took tons of bombs from a guy that punches twice as hard as Taylor in Miranda and kept coming. Whether or not he is "easy to hit" won't matter for as long as this fight lasts.

B. Who cares about counterpunching accuracy when you can LEAD and beat your man to the punch time and time again with superior volume, combinations and punching power?

salvador
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 19 2007, 02:09 AM) [snapback]354473[/snapback]
B. Who cares about counterpunching accuracy when you can LEAD and beat your man to the punch time and time again with superior volume, combinations and punching power?


That may be the entire fight in a nutshell: Who gets off first and will JT commit to the jab?

Why would you assume that Pavlik could beat JT to the punch "time and time again"?

And Miranda hit Pavlik with some damn wide punches. It's been a while since we've seen JT's overhand right land as flush and often as Miranda's bombs were landing on Pavlik (because it's been a while since JT's had such a hittable target). Further, Miranda's punches were landing without a jab setting them up.

caneman
QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 19 2007, 02:24 AM) [snapback]354476[/snapback]
That may be the entire fight in a nutshell: Who gets off first and will JT commit to the jab?

Why would you assume that Pavlik could beat JT to the punch "time and time again"?

And Miranda hit Pavlik with some damn wide punches. It's been a while since we've seen JT's overhand right land as flush and often as Miranda's bombs were landing on Pavlik (because it's been a while since JT's had such a hittable target). Further, Miranda's punches were landing without a jab setting them up.



you see i don't see this as a fight where the jab will be need(or even able to be thrown),it will be about infighting & counter punching! i mean for JT, jabs are thrown in the middle of the ring & that's not where this fight will be fought! and as far as the wide punches of pantera go & how they landed, yada, yada...the thing is, they didn't do shit & kelly walked right threw them like they were anything...you think JT hits harder? do you think that the fact that a punch is straighter will make a difference? all i know is unless JT runs like PBF, this fight will be a total beat down cause JT has nothing to keep kelly @ bay! drinks.gif
salvador
QUOTE(caneman @ Aug 19 2007, 09:31 AM) [snapback]354511[/snapback]
you see i don't see this as a fight where the jab will be need(or even able to be thrown),it will be about infighting & counter punching! i mean for JT, jabs are thrown in the middle of the ring & that's not where this fight will be fought! and as far as the wide punches of pantera go & how they landed, yada, yada...the thing is, they didn't do shit & kelly walked right threw them like they were anything...you think JT hits harder? do you think that the fact that a punch is straighter will make a difference? all i know is unless JT runs like PBF, this fight will be a total beat down cause JT has nothing to keep kelly @ bay! drinks.gif


First of all, NOBODY runs like Floyd. In that regard, he's in a league all his own.

Second, I agree with you that if this is an inside fight, Pavlik wins comfortably - probably even by ko. That's why JT and Steward know for damn sure that they have to keep this fight in the middle of the ring at all costs, which is another way of saying that right now, as we speak, JT is working on lateral movement and his jab.

And no, I don't think JT hits harder than Miranda, but when you have a good long hard jab, which Taylor does, you keep your opponent off balance and it's much easier to disguise punches. Miranda's punches could all be seen coming from a mile away and were less effective as a result.


BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 19 2007, 02:24 AM) [snapback]354476[/snapback]
Why would you assume that Pavlik could beat JT to the punch "time and time again"?


Well for starters because Wright was able to and so was Ouma, and like Pavlik both are come forward type fighters. And to beat the dead horse a little bit more, Pavlik hits multiples harder than both of those guys and throws a ton of punches.

QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 19 2007, 02:24 AM) [snapback]354476[/snapback]
And Miranda hit Pavlik with some damn wide punches. It's been a while since we've seen JT's overhand right land as flush and often as Miranda's bombs were landing on Pavlik (because it's been a while since JT's had such a hittable target). Further, Miranda's punches were landing without a jab setting them up.


Wow, I totally forgot about Taylor's arcing, telegraphed right hand with all the talk about his lack of a jab! You don't think Ouma was such a hittable target? I don't see how you couldn't.

Kijis Konar
QUOTE(salvador @ Aug 19 2007, 02:04 AM) [snapback]354472[/snapback]
Taylor might be overrated, but the idea that he would be afraid of Pavlik when he stared down Hopkins twice is a bit rediculous.


Once he feels the power, you shall see a scared man in the ring.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.