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NickBarker
Read the bottom of my post, Fitz. I feel exactly the same way.
Big Slim Sweet
QUOTE(fantasiabruja @ Jul 20 2007, 07:15 PM) [snapback]349907[/snapback]
1-Mayweather =P4P #1
2-Cotto = Boxings best body puncher today
3-Mosely = old but proven
4-Cintron = Hardest puncher in the division today (also has proven to have improved sinse lost to Margarito +destroyed Mathese)
5-Clotey = almost beat Margarito not almost won fight but actualy almost beat as an whip Margarito (B4 hand injury)
6-Colazo = Slick south paw who manny believe beat Hatton
7-Delahoya (Most popular atleast LOL)
These guys are all proven challengers and may be better than Williams just a matter of opinion because the only way we can realy know they are better is by him fighting them.

Comedy.
salvador
QUOTE(NickBarker @ Jul 20 2007, 04:46 PM) [snapback]349834[/snapback]
Salvador, I can't rate Williams ahead of Mayweather, Mosley, or Cotto. Saying that he's the fourth best in the division is no shame, but I think it's crazy to say he's the best right now. If you think he could beat the above three, then that's fine. However, that's a different proposition than him being the best. Mayweather is the best.

As for Margarito, he didn't look all that great to me. Personally, I don't think he warrants a match with any of the above and Cintron just put on a good looking performance. I guess you could put him against Judah, but that would be down the road because Judah's going to take on a soft fighter in September. Who else should he fight? Collazo?


Well, we don't have to worry about Williams ever being a champion at 147 then because Cotto, Mosley and Mayweather will all be avoiding Williams like the plague. He's just too tall, his reach is too long, his stamina is too good, his volume is too high and his chin is too strong for any of those guys to fight him. Williams beats every one of those guys on points.

All we can do is wait and see which of "the best" in the division will be willing to step up and fight him. My guess is we'll be waiting a while.

I think Margarito's going to fight Cotto or Judah next - I hope, though Collazo wouldn't be bad either.

salvador
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Jul 20 2007, 05:35 PM) [snapback]349848[/snapback]
Margarito ko'd Cintron before he got with Manny Steward (a real trainer) and Cintron has a title Margarito doesn't. If Margarito didn't give Clottey a rematch why should Williams give him a rematch the difference is Clottey was kickin Margarito ass worst than Williams did before he hurt his hand. Cotto will stop Margarito if they fight and a Margarito Judah doesn't prove anything (Judah lost to Baldomir, Floyd and Cotto, whats the point? Tho it would be a good fight, that's it. It's funny how you wanna see Margarito and Judah (who's coming off a ko lost) but you wanna see Williams fight Cintron or Clottey but you still my dude.


Didn't Cintron already turn down a fight with Mosley?

I think Cintron is the most overrated guy in the division - and a guy who could get big fights if he wanted them, but they're taking it slow with him because of his fragile psyche and because they think they have a money-maker with him because he's white.

I'd love to see Margarito fight any top guy because I love to see him fight and I love to see him tested. He's an honest, all action, take two to land one kind of fighter with a huge punch, however slow he might be. My thing is that after years of having all those guys ducking him (and they did, Mosley, Floyd, and Judah), maybe now that he's lost they'll get in the ring with him. My guess is that they'll use the loss to Williams as an excuse not to fight him. They'll also, of course, duck Williams shamelessly until Williams goes up to 160.

And I think that Williams-Margarito 2 would be great, but I think Williams wins again. Williams' size and stamina advantages are too much for anyone at 147. I think Williams is going to be waiting forever for a big fight at 147 and that's genuinely horrible for the sport. That said, I'd LOVE to see Williams fight Floyd and I'd LOVE to see Williams fight Cotto. You know HBO would love those fights and you know they're not happening.

And Judah's the one calling Margarito out. I want to see if Judah is just talking trash or if he'll step up after getting beaten so badly by a similar style. I think Judah Margarito would be great, but not as great as Margarito-Cotto.

And Cotto might beat Margarito, but he ain't stoppin' him. No chance.

Finally, between Clottey and Williams, Margarito has faced the two guys in the division that nobody wants to face because they're too tough for too little money. What could you possibly have against MArgarito at this point?
Tha Docta
QUOTE(salvador @ Jul 23 2007, 04:53 PM) [snapback]350680[/snapback]
Didn't Cintron already turn down a fight with Mosley?

I think Cintron is the most overrated guy in the division - and a guy who could get big fights if he wanted them, but they're taking it slow with him because of his fragile psyche and because they think they have a money-maker with him because he's white.

I'd love to see Margarito fight any top guy because I love to see him fight and I love to see him tested. He's an honest, all action, take two to land one kind of fighter with a huge punch, however slow he might be. My thing is that after years of having all those guys ducking him (and they did, Mosley, Floyd, and Judah), maybe now that he's lost they'll get in the ring with him. My guess is that they'll use the loss to Williams as an excuse not to fight him. They'll also, of course, duck Williams shamelessly until Williams goes up to 160.

And I think that Williams-Margarito 2 would be great, but I think Williams wins again. Williams' size and stamina advantages are too much for anyone at 147. I think Williams is going to be waiting forever for a big fight at 147 and that's genuinely horrible for the sport. That said, I'd LOVE to see Williams fight Floyd and I'd LOVE to see Williams fight Cotto. You know HBO would love those fights and you know they're not happening.

And Judah's the one calling Margarito out. I want to see if Judah is just talking trash or if he'll step up after getting beaten so badly by a similar style. I think Judah Margarito would be great, but not as great as Margarito-Cotto.

And Cotto might beat Margarito, but he ain't stoppin' him. No chance.

Finally, between Clottey and Williams, Margarito has faced the two guys in the division that nobody wants to face because they're too tough for too little money. What could you possibly have against MArgarito at this point?



cintrons name doesnt deserve to be mentioned with any of these top guys until he fights someone worth while. he was beaten into a crying mess against margarito. and i dont believe the black wayne newton (steward) can perform a miracle here. he looked good against matthyse, but i think hes still mentally fragile.
Sugar Q
QUOTE(salvador @ Jul 23 2007, 04:53 PM) [snapback]350680[/snapback]
Didn't Cintron already turn down a fight with Mosley?

I think Cintron is the most overrated guy in the division - and a guy who could get big fights if he wanted them, but they're taking it slow with him because of his fragile psyche and because they think they have a money-maker with him because he's white.

I'd love to see Margarito fight any top guy because I love to see him fight and I love to see him tested. He's an honest, all action, take two to land one kind of fighter with a huge punch, however slow he might be. My thing is that after years of having all those guys ducking him (and they did, Mosley, Floyd, and Judah), maybe now that he's lost they'll get in the ring with him. My guess is that they'll use the loss to Williams as an excuse not to fight him. They'll also, of course, duck Williams shamelessly until Williams goes up to 160.

And I think that Williams-Margarito 2 would be great, but I think Williams wins again. Williams' size and stamina advantages are too much for anyone at 147. I think Williams is going to be waiting forever for a big fight at 147 and that's genuinely horrible for the sport. That said, I'd LOVE to see Williams fight Floyd and I'd LOVE to see Williams fight Cotto. You know HBO would love those fights and you know they're not happening.

And Judah's the one calling Margarito out. I want to see if Judah is just talking trash or if he'll step up after getting beaten so badly by a similar style. I think Judah Margarito would be great, but not as great as Margarito-Cotto.

And Cotto might beat Margarito, but he ain't stoppin' him. No chance.
.


Finally, between Clottey and Williams, Margarito has faced the two guys in the division that nobody wants to face because they're too tough for too little money. What could you possibly have against MArgarito at this point?




I have absolutely nothing against Margarito. I just have a problem with taking a guy serious who's biggest win is against Cintron (the guy you just belittled) Boxing is not just about heart and guts because Gatti had both, fought better fighters and accomplished more than Margarito did. Margarito has never been worth the press he's gotten. I predicted it would be proven and 2 fights straight have proven that he doesn't belong in the same sentence as PBF. Close fight or whatever he didn't deserve to win either fight.
salvador
QUOTE(Sugar Q @ Jul 23 2007, 06:15 PM) [snapback]350697[/snapback]
I have absolutely nothing against Margarito. I just have a problem with taking a guy serious who's biggest win is against Cintron (the guy you just belittled) Boxing is not just about heart and guts because Gatti had both, fought better fighters and accomplished more than Margarito did. Margarito has never been worth the press he's gotten. I predicted it would be proven and 2 fights straight have proven that he doesn't belong in the same sentence as PBF. Close fight or whatever he didn't deserve to win either fight.


I think maybe you've got a skewed perception of how much press Margarito's gotten based on the fact that he's talked about here so much. The truth is that I don't think the mainstream boxing press talks about him enough, and that's largely because he doesn't speak English. The only reason he's mentioned so much here is because the top guys have ducked him so shamelessly. At this point, this conversation is way too tired to rehash, but the fact is that the top guys have ducked him and that's undeniable.

And the reason he belongs in the same sentence with PBF is because PBF is a natural jr lw and with Tony's volume of punches, chin, and power, Tony would definitely be a rough fight for Floyd - I still think rougher than DLH - and the fact that PBF turned down $8MM to fight him makes it that much more interesting.

And as far as PBF is concerned, it will be interesting to see if he fights Williams. I seriously doubt it even though they're both managed by Goosen. Really, what if DLH fights Hatton, Cotto fights Mosley, and Margarito fights Judah? Do you think there's any chance Goosen would be able to make Floyd fight Williams? Do you really think Floyd would EVER get in the ring with Williams like Margarito just did? Floyd's too smart for that and you know it. - I know, I know, who has Williams fought, right?

On a side note, who did Gatti ever beat that was as formidable as either Clottey or Cintron? Obviously Gatti fought better fighters becasue he's white and brought big money to the table, but every time he stepped up in class he got slaughtered. Pound for pound, Margarito's out of Gatti's league.



Tha Docta
QUOTE(salvador @ Jul 23 2007, 07:53 PM) [snapback]350724[/snapback]
I think maybe you've got a skewed perception of how much press Margarito's gotten based on the fact that he's talked about here so much. The truth is that I don't think the mainstream boxing press talks about him enough, and that's largely because he doesn't speak English. The only reason he's mentioned so much here is because the top guys have ducked him so shamelessly. At this point, this conversation is way too tired to rehash, but the fact is that the top guys have ducked him and that's undeniable.

And the reason he belongs in the same sentence with PBF is because PBF is a natural jr lw and with Tony's volume of punches, chin, and power, Tony would definitely be a rough fight for Floyd - I still think rougher than DLH - and the fact that PBF turned down $8MM to fight him makes it that much more interesting.

And as far as PBF is concerned, it will be interesting to see if he fights Williams. I seriously doubt it even though they're both managed by Goosen. Really, what if DLH fights Hatton, Cotto fights Mosley, and Margarito fights Judah? Do you think there's any chance Goosen would be able to make Floyd fight Williams? Do you really think Floyd would EVER get in the ring with Williams like Margarito just did? Floyd's too smart for that and you know it. - I know, I know, who has Williams fought, right?

On a side note, who did Gatti ever beat that was as formidable as either Clottey or Cintron? Obviously Gatti fought better fighters becasue he's white and brought big money to the table, but every time he stepped up in class he got slaughtered. Pound for pound, Margarito's out of Gatti's league.



gatti was able to secure those big fights because he brought in big money and was really no threat to win. believe me, if people thought margarito was so beatable, then everyone would be lining up to fight him.
salvador
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Jul 23 2007, 08:19 PM) [snapback]350730[/snapback]
gatti was able to secure those big fights because he brought in big money and was really no threat to win. believe me, if people thought margarito was so beatable, then everyone would be lining up to fight him.


I can never tell if people here know that and are just arguing for the sake of arguing, or if they really just can't understand something so incredibly simple and obvious.

I almost feel as if some people have so much invested in various fighters that they suspend logic in order to keep their heroes pristine.
RealPuya
I think is a good time for the fight…Margarito coming from a painful loss and Cintron coming from the greatest win of his career…I’m ready for Round 2! smile_anim.gif
NickBarker
It looks like Cintron is fighting Contender alumni Jessie Feliciano. I think it's scheduled for the undercard of Vargas/Mayorga. I'm glad he's keeping busy.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(NickBarker @ Jul 24 2007, 12:59 AM) [snapback]350756[/snapback]
It looks like Cintron is fighting Contender alumni Jessie Feliciano. I think it's scheduled for the undercard of Vargas/Mayorga. I'm glad he's keeping busy.



so this is what we are going to keep seeing out of cintron?? ive had enough of this guy already. fight someone worth while or put your singlet back on and go wrestle with the other fags.
NickBarker
This may be a situation where he and Steward are trying to build up exposure so that he can have a better stance in negotiating for some of the bigger fights available. I don't know how thrilled Margarito would be at fighting him right now. He probably feels he won the fight against Williams and that he has nothing left to prove against Cintron. The other top guys are all posturing to fight one another and would probably not be interested in Kermit.

I think Clottey is the best fight that he can make by the end of this year.
Tha Docta
i would rather see him fight someone like quintana or collazo or clottey would also work. and hbo approved this garbage fight for the undercard? why not just ask arturo gatti if he wants another fairwell fight against cintron??

cintron just had a few tuneup fights, and i dont understand why hes content to just sit around and fight c level opponents.
PB_EDDIE
I agree ^^

and how does beating Walter Math-- erase the Margarito fight ?( like Cintron said post fight)


-Cintron needs to fight Margarito for redemption
-Margarito needs to fight Cintron for his Belt to put him back on the 147 map (since we know HBO dont really like the guy)


Its a perfect fight to make
fantasiabruja
QUOTE(PB_EDDIE @ Jul 24 2007, 05:34 PM) [snapback]350835[/snapback]
I agree ^^

and how does beating Walter Math-- erase the Margarito fight ?( like Cintron said post fight)
-Cintron needs to fight Margarito for redemption
-Margarito needs to fight Cintron for his Belt to put him back on the 147 map (since we know HBO dont really like the guy)
Its a perfect fight to make

Actualy beating Margarito in the rematch is gonna erase part one right after this stay busy fight in September and I have a feeling contrarary to popular believe around here Steward is not gonna waist any time and he is going to get Kermit a big fight with posibly Williams. There is too much negociating going on right now with all the top guys in the division and when the dust settles Kermit will be fighting one of the top dogs.!
fantasiabruja
QUOTE(salvador @ Jul 23 2007, 04:53 PM) [snapback]350680[/snapback]
Didn't Cintron already turn down a fight with Mosley?

I think Cintron is the most overrated guy in the division - and a guy who could get big fights if he wanted them, but they're taking it slow with him because of his fragile psyche and because they think they have a money-maker with him because he's white.

I'd love to see Margarito fight any top guy because I love to see him fight and I love to see him tested. He's an honest, all action, take two to land one kind of fighter with a huge punch, however slow he might be. My thing is that after years of having all those guys ducking him (and they did, Mosley, Floyd, and Judah), maybe now that he's lost they'll get in the ring with him. My guess is that they'll use the loss to Williams as an excuse not to fight him. They'll also, of course, duck Williams shamelessly until Williams goes up to 160.

And I think that Williams-Margarito 2 would be great, but I think Williams wins again. Williams' size and stamina advantages are too much for anyone at 147. I think Williams is going to be waiting forever for a big fight at 147 and that's genuinely horrible for the sport. That said, I'd LOVE to see Williams fight Floyd and I'd LOVE to see Williams fight Cotto. You know HBO would love those fights and you know they're not happening.

And Judah's the one calling Margarito out. I want to see if Judah is just talking trash or if he'll step up after getting beaten so badly by a similar style. I think Judah Margarito would be great, but not as great as Margarito-Cotto.

And Cotto might beat Margarito, but he ain't stoppin' him. No chance.

Finally, between Clottey and Williams, Margarito has faced the two guys in the division that nobody wants to face because they're too tough for too little money. What could you possibly have against MArgarito at this point?

For the record Cintron is Puerto rican not white!
salvador
QUOTE(fantasiabruja @ Jul 25 2007, 09:06 PM) [snapback]351070[/snapback]
For the record Cintron is Puerto rican not white!


Puerto Ricans can be white, unless you don't believe that Spanish people are white - in which case Italians aren't white either.

Anyway, Cintron looks white and I guarantee he'll be marketed like he was white if he ever gets a big win.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(salvador @ Jul 25 2007, 09:33 PM) [snapback]351076[/snapback]
Puerto Ricans can be white, unless you don't believe that Spanish people are white - in which case Italians aren't white either.

Anyway, Cintron looks white and I guarantee he'll be marketed like he was white if he ever gets a big win.



if he were smart he would market himself as a puerto rican. nothing against my fellow white men, but those puerto rican fans are just more passionate about their fighters. fighting at the garden packed with puerto ricans is pretty exciting. you can feel the energy in the arena.
Milk Dud
QUOTE(PB_EDDIE @ Jul 24 2007, 04:34 PM) [snapback]350835[/snapback]
I agree ^^

and how does beating Walter Math-- erase the Margarito fight ?( like Cintron said post fight)
-Cintron needs to fight Margarito for redemption
-Margarito needs to fight Cintron for his Belt to put him back on the 147 map (since we know HBO dont really like the guy)
Its a perfect fight to make

I don't think its going to happen this year unless Cintron makes really short work of Feliciano on Sept 8th. He could as Arnaoutis took him out in 1 but since Jesse has been at 147 he has been at the very least more durable. The way he overcame a way better technical fighter in Rodriguez might build his confidence against Kermit. Not saying he wins but Kermit could be in for more action than he figures
fantasiabruja
QUOTE(salvador @ Jul 25 2007, 09:33 PM) [snapback]351076[/snapback]
Puerto Ricans can be white, unless you don't believe that Spanish people are white - in which case Italians aren't white either.

Anyway, Cintron looks white and I guarantee he'll be marketed like he was white if he ever gets a big win.

Dude he is already being marketed as a PR plus in some of his earlier fights he actualy had his hair dyed with the puerto rican flag on it.
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