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Maxy
Not sure how credible this source is but...


By Lance Pugmire, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
August 7, 2007

Veteran boxer James Toney and recent Ultimate Fighting Championship title fighter Hermes Franca, both facing one-year suspensions and $2,500 fines for positive performance-enhancing drug tests, confronted their appeals hearings before the California State Athletic Commission on Monday with different strategies.

Franca, 32, threw himself on the mercy of the commission, while Toney, 38, insisted he was innocent and most likely betrayed by a contaminated vitamin or herbal supplement. Toney reinforced his point with swear words at the hearing, telling a commissioner he had "disrespected" the boxer, and boasting, "I don't need steroids to beat anybody. I'm the best fighter in the world."

Franca's one-year suspension was upheld.

Toney's was cut in half, to 180 days.

"[Toney] didn't prove nothing, and I come here to tell the truth, and now he's going to be fighting again in four months and I'm out for a year," Franca said. "I was so surprised. I didn't protest like him. I said what I did."

Said Toney: "If it was in my system, I think it's bull."

Franca tested positive for the banned steroid drostanolone before his hard-fought, five-round decision loss to UFC lightweight champion Sean Sherk on July 7 at Sacramento's Arco Arena. Sherk also tested positive for steroids after the fight.

Franca has written a note of apology to UFC fans on his website, and he explained candidly Monday that he was motivated to use the steroid after suffering a pre-fight ankle injury.

A commissioner praised Franca for "deliberately taking the approach of not feigning ignorance" as a route to a reduced penalty. But it didn't gain him any leniency.

The commission granted him only the slight concession of being allowed to continue to work in the corners of fighters with whom he trains, such as lightweight Kurt Pellegrino on Aug. 25 in Las Vegas.

Former three-time world champion Toney, whose 2005 victory over World Boxing Council heavyweight champion John Ruiz was ruled a no-contest after Toney tested positive in New York for the steroid nandrolone, defeated Danny Batchelder by split decision May 24 in San Jose. Afterward, he tested positive for two steroids, including boldenone, a fat-reducing medication for horses prescribed only by veterinarians.

Commissioner Dr. Chris Giza met Toney's defense with skepticism, asking, "What evidence exists beyond this hypothetical [contamination]?"

When Commissioner Julio Ramirez suggested Toney receive a reduced 120-day suspension, Giza motioned for the full year to be upheld, adding, "Modifications require clear rationale." Ramirez admitted he was swayed by Toney's 78-fight career to give the boxer the "benefit of the doubt," to which Giza argued, "So, you're saying any athlete with a high profile" gains a suspension reduction? Ramirez answered no.

Commissioner Peter Lopez then suggested a 180-day suspension for Toney, which will expire toward the end of November, and six commissioners voted to approve it, with only Giza voting no.

Meanwhile, Sherk and another mixed martial arts fighter, Phil Baroni, had their hearings postponed until October.

A UFC official said President Dana White "won't want the lightweight title on ice for a year" if Sherk's one-year suspension is upheld.



I think this sends out the wrong message. If a sportsman is found guilty of taking drugs which could be performance enhancing then he should be banned for life. Life bans are surely the only way to make these people think twice about what they are putting into their system.
Fitz
Well even if he does, I don't think he will have much interest from here on out. His career is pretty much dead I would think.
Big Slim Sweet
Lmao. I love James Toney.
Jack 1000
I'm just tired of Toney,

I believe that many would agree with this statement. He's a has-been. There are too many other good, properly conditioned fighters out there now. James should just retire.

Jack
BigG
I'd rather watch Toney then 95 percent of the other Heavyweights out there.
salvador
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Aug 7 2007, 01:11 PM) [snapback]353090[/snapback]
I'd rather watch Toney then 95 percent of the other Heavyweights out there.


Yep, and I'd take him over Ibragimov all day.
Warlord
Toney is in the same boat alot of older fighters are. His physicality is the tool that he uses to ply his trade. What do you do when your aging body begins to break down on you, betraying you at every turn? Ankle injuries now taking 2 weeks to heal whereas before maybe it took 2 days, arm injuries putting you out for months at a time, those same injuries caused by nothing more than wear and tear to the muscle and joints.

I don't condone steroids by any means, but man, sometimes you have to look at it from a fighter's perspective. Hermes Franca is a young guy, so there is no way he should be juicing for any reason. Fighting is about technique, it always has been. But when your age prevents you from applying your technique, I can understand how steroids might seem to be an appealing option. And if you'll notice, Toney's steroid issues always seem to deal with injury-related substances, and not true performance enhancers.

As a fan, sure I want James, and every athlete, to be clean. But I also have this great sorrow for the aging fighters out there who aren't ready to give up the dream, but have to sit by and watch age and time derail everything they've worked for. So am I gonna crucify Toney for this, or be pissed that his sentence has been reduced? Am I gonna start calling him names, saying he's a washed up has-been? No. I'm going to respect the man as a fighter, and everything he's accomplished, and hope he gets himself educated on the dangers of steroid abuse. And then I'm going to hope he goes out the way he wants to go out, the way he deserves to go out. As a champion.
Warlord
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Aug 7 2007, 12:09 PM) [snapback]353089[/snapback]
I'm just tired of Toney,

I believe that many would agree with this statement. He's a has-been. There are too many other good, properly conditioned fighters out there now. James should just retire.

The ring will decide when it is time for James to retire. If there are so many other good fighters out there in the division, then they will rise to the top. And if they're as good as all that, then a fat, ex-middleweight pushing 40 should be no problem for them.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 7 2007, 12:56 PM) [snapback]353097[/snapback]
Toney is in the same boat alot of older fighters are. His physicality is the tool that he uses to ply his trade. What do you do when your aging body begins to break down on you, betraying you at every turn? Ankle injuries now taking 2 weeks to heal whereas before maybe it took 2 days, arm injuries putting you out for months at a time, those same injuries caused by nothing more than wear and tear to the muscle and joints.

I don't condone steroids by any means, but man, sometimes you have to look at it from a fighter's perspective. Hermes Franca is a young guy, so there is no way he should be juicing for any reason. Fighting is about technique, it always has been. But when your age prevents you from applying your technique, I can understand how steroids might seem to be an appealing option. And if you'll notice, Toney's steroid issues always seem to deal with injury-related substances, and not true performance enhancers.

As a fan, sure I want James, and every athlete, to be clean. But I also have this great sorrow for the aging fighters out there who aren't ready to give up the dream, but have to sit by and watch age and time derail everything they've worked for. So am I gonna crucify Toney for this, or be pissed that his sentence has been reduced? Am I gonna start calling him names, saying he's a washed up has-been? No. I'm going to respect the man as a fighter, and everything he's accomplished, and hope he gets himself educated on the dangers of steroid abuse. And then I'm going to hope he goes out the way he wants to go out, the way he deserves to go out. As a champion.

Finally you say something that makes an iota of sense....
Warlord
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Aug 7 2007, 01:16 PM) [snapback]353100[/snapback]
Finally you say something that makes an iota of sense....

Which is an iota more than you ever did.
thehype
I think the bigger concern here is that Toney got half the suspension that Hermes Franca got. What's up with that?
Warlord
QUOTE(thehype @ Aug 7 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]353103[/snapback]
I think the bigger concern here is that Toney got half the suspension that Hermes Franca got. What's up with that?

In all reality, probably because Toney is a bigger name at the tail end of his career in a sport starving for big names.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(thehype @ Aug 7 2007, 02:25 PM) [snapback]353103[/snapback]
I think the bigger concern here is that Toney got half the suspension that Hermes Franca got. What's up with that?



thats what he gets for telling the truth. with steroid issues, its always best to lie, or at least act really stupid about it. when you tell the truth, you eliminate any doubt that the public may have about you cheating. if you play dumb, at least part of the public will give you the benefit of the doubt. however, in this case, there is little doubt that toney likes the roids. or at least needs them at this point in his career.

look at gary sheffield, who is a somewhat intelligent man, he claims that steroids are something "you stick in your butt". meanwhile the guy is rubbing steroid cream on his arms and taking drops of the clear on his tongue.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 7 2007, 01:19 PM) [snapback]353102[/snapback]
Which is an iota more than you ever did.

That's only because you lack the ability to comprehend complete sentences made up of words longer than 3 letters...
thehype
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 7 2007, 02:37 PM) [snapback]353106[/snapback]
In all reality, probably because Toney is a bigger name at the tail end of his career in a sport starving for big names.


Oh that's absolutley the reason why...Toney's the bigger name...but that's fvcked up, especially considering that one guy was being apologetic while the other guy was cursing the commission for the accussations. I mean, if that's the kind of stance they take, you have to wonder if they apply the same philosophy when it comes to the testing of the athletes.

dntknw.gif
Lil-lightsout
I guess Toney will have a belt sooner now good.gif
Milk Dud
QUOTE(thehype @ Aug 7 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]353103[/snapback]
I think the bigger concern here is that Toney got half the suspension that Hermes Franca got. What's up with that?

the even bigger concern is now cutting half the weight off James in addition to half his suspension

dude is big right now
Fitz
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 8 2007, 03:56 AM) [snapback]353097[/snapback]
Toney is in the same boat alot of older fighters are. His physicality is the tool that he uses to ply his trade. What do you do when your aging body begins to break down on you, betraying you at every turn? Ankle injuries now taking 2 weeks to heal whereas before maybe it took 2 days, arm injuries putting you out for months at a time, those same injuries caused by nothing more than wear and tear to the muscle and joints.

I don't condone steroids by any means, but man, sometimes you have to look at it from a fighter's perspective. Hermes Franca is a young guy, so there is no way he should be juicing for any reason. Fighting is about technique, it always has been. But when your age prevents you from applying your technique, I can understand how steroids might seem to be an appealing option. And if you'll notice, Toney's steroid issues always seem to deal with injury-related substances, and not true performance enhancers.

As a fan, sure I want James, and every athlete, to be clean. But I also have this great sorrow for the aging fighters out there who aren't ready to give up the dream, but have to sit by and watch age and time derail everything they've worked for. So am I gonna crucify Toney for this, or be pissed that his sentence has been reduced? Am I gonna start calling him names, saying he's a washed up has-been? No. I'm going to respect the man as a fighter, and everything he's accomplished, and hope he gets himself educated on the dangers of steroid abuse. And then I'm going to hope he goes out the way he wants to go out, the way he deserves to go out. As a champion.


I don't know. I know it's pure speculation on my part, but just because Toney got caught at the tail end of his career doesn't necessarily make me believe he only took it at the end of his career. Good chance he has been doing it for a while. I don't hate the man for it, as I believe it goes on a WHOLE lot more than some would believe, it's just that not everyone gets caught. But I would think his career will be pretty much over from here on out.
Warlord
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Aug 7 2007, 01:55 PM) [snapback]353112[/snapback]
That's only because you lack the ability to comprehend complete sentences made up of words longer than 3 letters...

I guess that explains why I can understand all the dumb shit you write then, huh?
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 7 2007, 11:58 PM) [snapback]353167[/snapback]
I guess that explains why I can understand all the dumb shit you write then, huh?

You have to speak to people in a language that they can understand. I wouldn't want to go over your head. Dumb shit just so happens to be the language you're most fluent in....
Warlord
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Aug 8 2007, 11:39 AM) [snapback]353216[/snapback]
You have to speak to people in a language that they can understand. I wouldn't want to go over your head. Dumb shit just so happens to be the language you're most fluent in....

As well as yourself, apparantly.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 8 2007, 12:56 PM) [snapback]353223[/snapback]
As well as yourself, apparantly.

Yes, but unlike you I'm multi-ligual... black eye.gif
Warlord
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Aug 8 2007, 02:22 PM) [snapback]353232[/snapback]
Yes, but unlike you I'm multi-ligual... black eye.gif

Sorry guy, I guess you dumbed it up a little too much, but WTF is "multi-ligual?" You got extra ligaments or some shit?
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 8 2007, 10:45 PM) [snapback]353282[/snapback]
Sorry guy, I guess you dumbed it up a little too much, but WTF is "multi-ligual?" You got extra ligaments or some shit?

That should be multi-lingual. Guess you have nothing better to grab @ other than typos. Very typical...
Warlord
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Aug 9 2007, 11:16 AM) [snapback]353318[/snapback]
That should be multi-lingual. Guess you have nothing better to grab @ other than typos. Very typical...

I thought a high IQ motherfucker such as yourself didn't make typos, Nay Sayer. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, you know, thinking there is no way someone as Godlike as you could ever be so stupid as to write something as gay as "multi-ligual" whilst insulting the intelligence of others in the same breath. I mean, damn son, I thought maybe you just had extra ligaments and shit. Don't get all bent out of shape on me now, princess.

I hope this foolish blunder on your part taught you a very valuable lesson, my friend. Don't claim to be multilingual, when your ass can't even spell multilingual. That's just too funny.

Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 9 2007, 12:47 PM) [snapback]353333[/snapback]
I thought a high IQ motherfucker such as yourself didn't make typos, Nay Sayer. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, you know, thinking there is no way someone as Godlike as you could ever be so stupid as to write something as gay as "multi-ligual" whilst insulting the intelligence of others in the same breath. I mean, damn son, I thought maybe you just had extra ligaments and shit. Don't get all bent out of shape on me now, princess.

I hope this foolish blunder on your part taught you a very valuable lesson, my friend. Don't claim to be multilingual, when your ass can't even spell multilingual. That's just too funny.

Dude, how can you accuse me of writing something "gay" when you have that avatar? And yes, high IQ motherfuckers make typos. Low IQ motherfuckers, such as yourself, have nothing better to grab on to other than typos - a clear indication of your deficiency, genius. You can't win the debate so, like a 5 year old, you poke fun at the thing which matters the least. Maybe one day when you have an IQ above room temperature, abandon the cross-dressing monkey avatar, and develop a vocabulary that includes words longer than three letters - you can win the war of words. But today you get the dip-shit spell checker award. Now be a good little room temperature IQ genius - take your pointed hat and sit in the corner quietly.

Learn to STFU when people smarter than you are talking....
Warlord
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Aug 9 2007, 01:16 PM) [snapback]353334[/snapback]
high IQ motherfuckers make typos. Low IQ motherfuckers, such as yourself, have nothing better to grab on to other than typos

Wait a minute, here. Let me see if I have this straight. High IQ motherfuckers such as yourself make frequent spelling mistakes, and low IQ guys like me catch those spelling mistakes? What are we living in, the Bizarro world? laugh.gif

QUOTE
You can't win the debate.
And what debate would that be, Dick Tracy? You came on here insulting me right off the bat. There is no debate, just me constantly owning your pathetic ass.

QUOTE
Learn to STFU when people smarter than you are talking....

You first, Brittney.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 9 2007, 02:24 PM) [snapback]353337[/snapback]
Wait a minute, here. Let me see if I have this straight. High IQ motherfuckers such as yourself make frequent spelling mistakes, and low IQ guys like me catch those spelling mistakes? What are we living in, the Bizarro world? laugh.gif

Who said anything about making frequent spelling mistakes, genius? LEARN HOW TO READ. And yes, low IQ types such as yourself don't see the big picture, only insignificant typos. Typical room temperature IQ genius MO...

QUOTE
And what debate would that be, Dick Tracy?
Whether or not you are an idiot. I guess that argument has pretty much been settled...


QUOTE
You came on here insulting me right off the bat.

I did no such thing clueless. LEARN HOW TO READ.

QUOTE
There is no debate, just me constantly owning your pathetic ass.

And then you woke up and apologized for even dreaming about something so utterly ridiculous. You couldn't own a $2 dollar whore...

Now, like I said before genius, STFU when people smarter than you are talking.
Boss Hogg
James is throw-back fighter to the tenth power, despite, the steroid scandal. I'll say this, he's tarnishing the hell out of his career by taking that shit! As discussed in baseball, with Bonds, there will always be a little asterisk next to Toney's name and its sad if you think about it because the cat has accomplished so much in the sport.
Maxy
QUOTE(Boss Hogg @ Aug 9 2007, 05:59 PM) [snapback]353359[/snapback]
James is throw-back fighter to the tenth power, despite, the steroid scandal. I'll say this, he's tarnishing the hell out of his career by taking that shit! As discussed in baseball, with Bonds, there will always be a little asterisk next to Toney's name and its sad if you think about it because the cat has accomplished so much in the sport.


Yeah. For me, Toney is a legend.....but he's tarnished.
Jayhawkman
Toney is a piece of crap. I loved how Jim Lampley called him a tub of goo during the tale of the tape before the Rahman fight, and that he was at the McDonald's training camp. I would be very content to never see James Toney fight again.
Warlord
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Aug 9 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]353340[/snapback]
Who said anything about making frequent spelling mistakes, genius? LEARN HOW TO READ. And yes, low IQ types such as yourself don't see the big picture, only insignificant typos. Typical room temperature IQ genius MO...

Whether or not you are an idiot. I guess that argument has pretty much been settled...
I did no such thing clueless. LEARN HOW TO READ.
And then you woke up and apologized for even dreaming about something so utterly ridiculous. You couldn't own a $2 dollar whore...

Now, like I said before genius, STFU when people smarter than you are talking.

Do your mother a favor, princess. Kill yourself.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 9 2007, 11:16 PM) [snapback]353376[/snapback]
Do your mother a favor, princess. Kill yourself.

Sure thing, just as soon as your mother is done doing me favors...
Warlord
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Aug 10 2007, 11:59 AM) [snapback]353408[/snapback]
Sure thing, just as soon as your mother is done doing me favors...

Lame.
Nay_Sayer
QUOTE(Warlord @ Aug 10 2007, 04:36 PM) [snapback]353488[/snapback]
Lame.

True that. When your moms is done doing her thing I can hardly move....
Maxy
QUOTE(Nay_Sayer @ Aug 10 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]353492[/snapback]
True that. When your moms is done doing her thing I can hardly move....


You're a prick...why don't you post something about boxing?
BrutalBodyShots
Unless I see a current photo of Toney weighing 220 pounds or less I have no interest in seeing him in the ring again.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 13 2007, 04:56 PM) [snapback]353935[/snapback]
Unless I see a current photo of Toney weighing 220 pounds or less I have no interest in seeing him in the ring again.



That should be the expectations of every fan who supports a James Toney come back what makes it bad is that he uses that shit but looks like shit at the same time how is that even possible? if he used it and looked like he did with Holyfield I might find a way to give the man a pass but he doesnt he uses it and looks worse than a beach seal
dj necrogenic
Toney should be banned from the sport, thats 2 times now he's failed Steroid tests. I cant believe they actually reduced his sentence
Crow
that fat fuck might as well retire, he won't do shit in the HW division and is too old and lazy to go down in weight.
Milk Dud
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 13 2007, 06:56 PM) [snapback]353935[/snapback]
Unless I see a current photo of Toney weighing 220 pounds or less I have no interest in seeing him in the ring again.

last time I saw him was at Margarito Williams


he wasnt 220
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Milk Dud @ Aug 14 2007, 05:47 PM) [snapback]354078[/snapback]
last time I saw him was at Margarito Williams
he wasnt 220


Exactly - so I have no interest in him at all.

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