Vote...

I think Toney and Hopkins are his best wins in terms of caliber opponent... being that they are both greats, but in terms of accomplishment I think beating Ruiz was Jones' greatest accomplishment.

I'd say the first fight with Tarver. He took a hell of a beating in that first fight, blows we had never seen him take before, and he showed the heart of a champion in the championship rounds standing toe to toe with Tarver.

But Tarver never was anything close to a great fighter... he's average at best.

What would that make Ruiz?

Yes, he was a heavyweight beltholder. But see where this can go?

Glen "Kunga" Kelly was a great fighter beaton by a fluke punch. By far his greatest win.

True,

But the future revealed to us all that Tarver would come to be his worst nightmare, despite, not becoming much of anything post Jones.

The Toney fight he went from middle to super and beat the best fighter p4p !

Toney has always been my favorite fighter, and I remember seeing Roy totally embarrass James that whole fight back in 1994. By far that was Roy Jones' greatest performance. That Roy Jones that night, NO ONE would have ever touched him in that fight from any era!

I voted for his win over Hopkins. The poll allows for more than one choice. But I only wanted to select one opponent. In the "other" category, a close second would have been the KO of Hill with the body shot. The win over Ruiz is/was over-rated as Ruiz was an average heavyweight who specialized in holding and clinching more than anything else.

Toney was good but not great as he always got lazy about conditioning even in his prime. Had he cared about conditioning he could have been a great fighter instead of just good. Even worse was, James was only good when he wanted to be, and it wasn't often enough. One fight he would do something great (The KO of Nunn) and other times he struggled against mediocre guys and often got rewarded for it. (His terrible decision win over Dave Tiberi.)

Jack

Ruiz was a beltholder 2 DIVISIONS above where Jones was fighting. Jones made the jump up and won the fight easily and convincingly. That is a great accomplishment, a far better accomplishment than eeking out a 7-5 victory over Tarver the first time. I would put Ruiz and Tarver on the same level in terms of how good of a fighter they are, the same way I'd put Hopkins and Toney on the same level.

The easy answer is Ruiz.

Anytime a natural 160-168lb guy can move up and convincingly beat a Heavyweight belt-holder, regardless of whether the guy could pass a saliva test or not, well....it's got my vote.

Toney, Hopkins, & even Tarver were better quality opponents, but the Ruiz win was by FAR the bigger feat....especially when you consider that John - while not employing a very popular style - beat a LOT of decent quality HW's.

I agree 100%, except I do not consider Tarver to be a better quality opponent than Ruiz. Ruiz has better wins than Tarver IMO.

I don't really have strong opinions for either win. All I mentioned was, if Tarver is average, so was Ruiz. Beating Ruiz-it's an accomplishment, but saying it was "great"........ man, that's like an itch you can't scratch. I feel more let down by Ruiz in that particular bout, but whatever. I guess the misleading angle of it doesn't sit well with me.

Looking at the poll again...... "career best" aside, he certainly had better performances/showings though.

I voted for Hopkins since I believe he is the better fighter out of the names mentioned, and he also gave Jones the harder fight.

Ruiz.

Tarver was average and so was Ruiz. However, Ruiz was a legit heavyweight.

Hmm... some thoughts - Tarver versus Roy Jones at heavyweight after Roy Jones win over Ruiz? Who's your pick?

Ruiz for me.

IMO, the win has gone from being OVERrated to UNDERrated.


The whole 'Ruiz is average and wasn't the true champion' thing has taken too much away from Jones' win. Forget the title belt and imagine, say, Dick Tiger (who fought at middle and light heavy like Roy) beating up, hurting and outclassing, say, Jerry Quarry, who was about as highly ranked at heavy in 1967 as Ruiz was in 2003.

Belt or no belt, that would be an amazing win, right?

And the whole 'Ruiz is average' argument usually comes from his style of fighting and entertainment value rather than his actual ability. He's beaten: Evander Holyfield, Kirk Johnson, Fres Oquendo, Andrew Golota and Hasim Rahman. An average fighter does not beat all of those guys. A championship caliber fighter does. Yes, Ruiz is dull, boring, holds a lot, sucks ass...but he is NOT an average fighter.

So, bearing all that in mind: why isn't Roy's win about as good as Dick Tiger's would have been?


Interchange Tiger and Quarry with any equivalents from any era. Ray Robinson and Nino Valdes, for instance. Bernard Hopkins and Ruslan Chagaev. Marvin Hagler and Tony Tucker.



Apart from that, there's the technical performance, too. Jones just did everything perfectly in that fight. His speed was incredible, his skills awesome. He stood and traded punches and didn't run (like many said he would). He took full blooded heavyweight punches and didn't flinch. It was an all-time great performance all around.



Black

HOW IN the hell can people say that the first TARVER fight was his best win??? HE LOST THAT BOUT and was given a gift. Tarver pummeled him. Sure Roy swung back late, but hardly any of his shots were telling. In my view he lost all three to Tarver. Yu have to give him credit for Ruiz, albeit the ref was a bt shady in that bout... he broke them up too much. Whenever Ruiz git close Roy on more than one occasion would look at the ref and then he would immediatley seperate the two....

I WOULD SAY HIS BEST WIN WAS HIS BODY SHOT KO OVER VIRGILL HILL---

HOW IN the hell can people say that the first TARVER fight was his best win??? HE LOST THAT BOUT and was given a gift. Tarver pummeled him. Sure Roy swung back late, but hardly any of his shots were telling. In my view he lost all three to Tarver. Yu have to give him credit for Ruiz, albeit the ref was a bIt shady in that bout... he broke them up too much. Whenever Ruiz git close Roy on more than one occasion would look at the ref and then he would immediatley seperate the two....

I WOULD SAY HIS BEST WIN WAS HIS BODY SHOT KO OVER VIRGILL HILL---

Whew, you are making a tremendous leap of faith here...... I don't see Tiger beating Quarry though.

Also, "average" is a relative term here though-Ruiz was certainly a higher calibur of fighter than the Mickey Ward's & the Freddie Roach's of boxing. I should've been clearer regarding that part of the statement-yes, there is logic behind his madness.

As for your hypothetical Tiger scenario.....as well as SRR, X(he still might), & Hagler never facing heavies & beating them, the biggest issue with me is :

Roy facing Ruiz was ALL ABOUT the title belt-isn't that why it was such a big deal? Greb & Mickey Walker faced heavies & won a handful of them(some of them were very capable heavies). Were they "amazing" wins? Don't get me wrong, as I give props to Roy for defeating Ruiz, but I'm not quick to shower him with praise as some others. More or less, when a great fighter from lower weights moves up into the heavyweight realm, it turns into the Bob Foster experiment (although Foster's heavy opposition wasn't pretty). Now, if say Roy beat Lennox........that would be something. I wouldn't even know where to begin on how to incorporate that kind of achievement.

I don't like Roy's chances at Valdes, Chagaev, or Tucker either.

Going into the fight, it was one of the more interesting match ups I remember. Ruiz actually jarred Roy early(forgot which round)-odd fight, as Ruiz stopped fighting like...... Ruiz. And I don't think it was entirely due to what Roy was doing.

99% of the world had that fight 7-5 in rounds for Jones. Just because you didn't doesn't mean 99% of the world was wrong.




And I would say you're wrong.

I believe it was the first round.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Ruiz, Jones beating Ruiz convincingly 2 divisions above him is a much greater accomplishment than Jones edging out a victory over Tarver since they are both similar caliber fighters.

I voted Ruiz. Yes, it wasn't against a great opponent but it was a great achievement nontheless. Former middleweight champions winning titles at heavyweight simply doesn't happen often enough to be overlooked.

Well, seeing as how it had been over a hundred years for any fighter to do what Roy did in that fight against Ruiz I think it's a very easy pick. On a P4P level, Toney and Hopkins are obviously higher. Like Ruiz or not, he has won the title 3 separate times at HW. Take it for what it's worth. Jones was hands down the greatest fighter P4P from the early 90's up till his win against Ruiz.

Jones-Tarver I I had a draw. It was very close. The problem was the margin that the officials gave the fight to Jones. A draw to a 7-5 win for either fighter would have been fine, but not more than that. There were times in that fight where each had moments but not enough of them to make a definitive statement. That fight came down to the wire, and even the 12th round was a total crap-shoot on who should have won. But I seem to recall two cards of 116-112 and 117-111 for Jones, THAT was bullshit. A pummeling? Not even close. Several of Tarver's shots were blocked by Roy's arms and elbows. Jones did his best at center ring, Tarver did his best off the ropes. It was very hard to score.

Jack

The right man got the decision though. I personally don't care what the judges scorecards read as long as the right man gets the decision. Who cares if they are all 115-113 Jones or all 120-108 Jones as far as the record books go?

Well, I wouldn't really disagree with you there. The Tarver choice ....doesn't really belong there, does it?

Btw, when Roy was hit by Ruiz, it definitely shook him up, but it wasn't like he was knocked into a coma either. Made the Tarver/Johnson KO's that much more shocking-well, atleast for me anyway.

If the title of the thread was "What was Jones greatest accomplishment?" you might have a point. But since the title of the thread is "What we thought Jones' best win was" again, I believe the 1st Tarver fight showed the world what they finally wanted to see from a guy who had never taken any real punishment throughout his entire career. One, he showed that he could take a punch in that fight, and two, he showed he could dish right back and come out with a UD at the end of the day.

Realistically, it was his first and only Gladiator performance.

It could be argued that he was too good to have to dig deep when at his peak....

Somehow the poll got screwed up. Can everyone submit their votes again please? Thanks.

The 1st fight w/Tarver was the first time Jones truly showed heart !

It was the first time he ever had to, as he never took anywhere near that amount of punishment prior in his career.

His win over Hopkins IMO.

JONES SUCKS... HE IS ONE OF THE MOST OVERRATED HYPE JOBS IN HISTORY... IT WAS BEAUTIFUL TO WATCH TARVER ASK HIS punk ass did he have any excuses and then KO'd his bitch ass.. it has been down hill ever since. Jones was a minstrel show with his chicken antics. in the third Tarver fight he looked pathetic sticking out his tongue. I HOPE tito kicks his ass

Sure, he only was a 1988 "true" olympic gold medalist, won numerous world titles from middleweight all the way up to heavyweight, and was recognized as the P4P best fighter of the 90's. Okay, you hate the guy,we get it.

Here are my thoughts:

• James Toney: Don't get me wrong; this is a huge win, but Toney simply wasn't there to fight. If Toney'd entered the ring in that shape against Dave Tiberi in a rematch, Tiberi would've beaten him just as soundly as Jones did.
• John Ruiz: Don't give me that crap about Jones being naturally 160 or 168 pounds. When he fought at 160, he entered the ring at 175. When he fought Ruiz, he was a solid 200 pounds. Come on. Jack Dempsey was in the 190s, and he would've destroyed Ruiz. Heck, Dempsey debuted at 140, so what does that say about Ruiz?
• Bernard Hopkins: Don't let anyone tell you that Hopkins was green. If you watch that fight, you'll see two masters going at it, with one man clearly superior. This is an excellent pick.
• Montel Griffin II: This is my pick. Griffin was a hell of a fighter. He was 14-0 when he beat James Toney for the first time, and he's only been knocked out three times in a career fighting tough competitors. Dariusz Michalczewski knocked him out in four, and when he was really, really old, Glencoffe Johnson took him out in eleven. Jones took him out in one. One punch. It sent the boxing industry on its ears. A lot of people thought that he could beat Evander Holyfield, who held two of the big titles. People were saying that he was not only the best fighter in the world, pound-for-pound, but the best fighter, period. Don't count him out.

I went with Hopkins, just to annoy Method.

Nice post. Agree on all points, particularly your assessments of the Toney and Ruiz wins. I wouldn't say Hopkins was green for that fight either, though he wasn't yet the true master he would later become. And I like the choice of Griffin 2 as Roy's greatest win. The way he "lost" the first fight, and the utterly dominant, emphatic nature of the rematch was, I believe, his finest moment.

I too liked the way that Jones avenged the first Griffen fight... he went in there to make a statement and he did without question. I however don't think that win was a greater achievement than beating a very good heavyweight belt holder in his debut 2 divisions north of where he was fighting.

Yeah, I had forgotten about the Griffin II fight and it's significance. Good looking out...

Hopkins is clearly Jones best win. Look at what Hopkins did after Jones. Hopkins is the most skilled fighter Jones ever fought and Jones beat him in a fight that WASN'T easy.

At the time they met & fought, it wasn't considered a "big" fight. This is one of the drawbacks to considering it RJJ's "best" win.

One perspective is this: do you think X got better after the Jones' loss? Did Jones himself get better?

To give a win full merit, it has to be when a fighter was at his best. Was X...."green"? No way. Only an X homer, or a person who despises RJJ would say that. But it loses weight in regards to achievement. These two should've met for a second go around loooong time ago.

They both lose points for that.

Seeing this thread again, there is also a fluctuating opinion on Ruiz himself.

did u see that fight? why on earth would you want a second go around for those guys?? one of the most boring fights ive ever seen. i got the impression from that fight that jones could win a boring decision everytime he faced bernard. no need for a rematch.

i think jones win over toney is probably his best. he embarrassed toney while james was a top p4p fighter. but the ruiz fight is right up there since i was a little concerned about roys health going into that fight. thought he might get put to sleep. and he did get buzzed in that first round but then he continued to pulvarize ruiz's nose with lead right hands.

I don't necessarily see the outcome as a foregone conclusion like you do.

Was it an exciting fight? Nah, but I've seen other extreme fights on the boring barometer.

I wanted to see a rematch because 10 years after their first encounter these two still stood as the top 2 p4p fighters in the sport. Actually the fact that it would have been a rematch meant little to me. I wanted to see p4p#1 fight p4p #2.

I agree their first fight was boring, and that would have soured me on an immediate rematch. But 10 years later? A lot of things change in 10 years, particluarly with athletes. And I think in hindsight, knowing what we now know was right around the corner for Roy (getting KTFO by lesser fighters), the result of a rematch between these two was anything but a foregone conclusion.

i think roy beats hopkins by boring decision every time. the hand speed is what bothered hopkins.

His best win was vs. the coma Glencofee Johnson put him in

i thought he was dead for sure. looked like someone layed him down in a casket. kinda creepy with his feet still lifted slightly off the canvas.