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Boss Hogg
I totally agree with those who believe Vick should be held accountable for his dog-fighting endeavors, however, I disagree with him losing his livelihood. He's now been suspended from the league indefinitely without pay, slapped with a $250,000 fine, practically all of his endorsements have rolled, jail time is on the way..... so my question to those interested in answering is "Did being involved in dogfighting warrant the loss of his money, freedom, and job?"

Just curious fellas.....
imperial
I don't think so I mean there have been people charged w/worse and still manage to live and work like normal ..

PB_EDDIE
i agree with imperial


Naturally he should lose his endorsements deals, but that simply cause its a business decision on their ends..

However he should still be allowed to play in the NFL IMHO
caneman
for now i don't have a problem with him losing those things @ this time! the fact is when you do fucked up things, sometimes you get fucked up! i am a dog lover though what can i say! drinks.gif
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(Boss Hogg @ Aug 24 2007, 07:55 PM) [snapback]354975[/snapback]
I totally agree with those who believe Vick should be held accountable for his dog-fighting endeavors, however, I disagree with him losing his livelihood. He's now been suspended from the league indefinitely without pay, slapped with a $250,000 fine, practically all of his endorsements have rolled, jail time is on the way..... so my question to those interested in answering is "Did being involved in dogfighting warrant the loss of his money, freedom, and job?"

Just curious fellas.....

i'm pretty sure if anyone on this board plead guilty to racketeering, in federal court, they would lose money , freedom and their job. He still has 50 million in the bank. He's lucky he got the deal he did, or under the RICO statutes the feds would have seized all of his money, property along with jail time. Don't cry for Michael Vick, he can still invest the fortune he has and live a spectaculat life.
Method
Dude, this guy KNOWINGLY, VOLUNTARILY broke SEVERAL FELONY laws...and then LIED to the commissioner, his teammates and his coaches about it all. And MAKE NO MISTAKE...it was ONLY when he was completely backed into a NO WAY OUT situation that he came clean. He deserves whatever he gets. You disagree with him losing endorsements? What, Nike is supposed to give an admitted felon millions to be their poster child so that millions of their customers, a sizeable portion all kids with pets, can look up to THIS guy?

Michael Vick brought ALL of this on himself. The league, in my opinion, has acted well within their rights, and I'd go further and say they were very prudent in how they handled the situation, letting everything play out.

There are many ways for Vick to make ends meet moving forward (and no, making ends meet may not mean making millions, but rather COULD mean making average joe wages to suppport an average joe lifestyle). Unfortuantely for him football may not be one of them. The game...the league....is MUCH, MUCH bigger than Michael Vick. Think about how many people on his team may lose money by him not being out there? That's his fault. And what, now it's supposed to be hands across America for Michael Vick? Please. Dude had $130,000,000 contract....ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS PLAY FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love Michael Vick as an athelete, dude, and I'd hate to see a talent like that decay on the sidelines, but you simply can not give this guy a pass without punishment. IMO, everything tht has been stipulated so far has been appropriate. Hopefully he comes back. If he doesn't, so be it.
Southeastpaw
Right on the money Method. Wasted Talent is a sad thing, but Vick deserves whatever he gets in this ordeal. I am totally against animal cruelty and Vick seemed to be a bigwig in dog fighting and also a sick way of killing pit bulls. It is guys like Vick that have given pit bulls the bad reputation they have.
Bill The Butcher
Well, when he gets out of prison, he could always turn to professional boxing. We could place bets on him. We could watch him get beat down and knocked out. And some promoter could screw him out of money. The heavyweight division could use him as a "stepping stone".

TheAmblingAlp
QUOTE(Method @ Aug 25 2007, 07:20 AM) [snapback]355004[/snapback]
Dude, this guy KNOWINGLY, VOLUNTARILY broke SEVERAL FELONY laws...and then LIED to the commissioner, his teammates and his coaches about it all. And MAKE NO MISTAKE...it was ONLY when he was completely backed into a NO WAY OUT situation that he came clean. He deserves whatever he gets. You disagree with him losing endorsements? What, Nike is supposed to give an admitted felon millions to be their poster child so that millions of their customers, a sizeable portion all kids with pets, can look up to THIS guy?

Michael Vick brought ALL of this on himself. The league, in my opinion, has acted well within their rights, and I'd go further and say they were very prudent in how they handled the situation, letting everything play out.

There are many ways for Vick to make ends meet moving forward (and no, making ends meet may not mean making millions, but rather COULD mean making average joe wages to suppport an average joe lifestyle). Unfortuantely for him football may not be one of them. The game...the league....is MUCH, MUCH bigger than Michael Vick. Think about how many people on his team may lose money by him not being out there? That's his fault. And what, now it's supposed to be hands across America for Michael Vick? Please. Dude had $130,000,000 contract....ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS PLAY FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love Michael Vick as an athelete, dude, and I'd hate to see a talent like that decay on the sidelines, but you simply can not give this guy a pass without punishment. IMO, everything tht has been stipulated so far has been appropriate. Hopefully he comes back. If he doesn't, so be it.



Meth....thanks for saving me the trouble of typing the above. Spot on!
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Boss Hogg @ Aug 24 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]354975[/snapback]
I totally agree with those who believe Vick should be held accountable for his dog-fighting endeavors, however, I disagree with him losing his livelihood. He's now been suspended from the league indefinitely without pay, slapped with a $250,000 fine, practically all of his endorsements have rolled, jail time is on the way..... so my question to those interested in answering is "Did being involved in dogfighting warrant the loss of his money, freedom, and job?"

Just curious fellas.....



when this was first made public I felt Vick should be shot in the head in all honesty and a part of me still sort of feels that way, However when I look this issue regarding dog fighting as a sport, I ask myself weather or not I could consider it a sport and if it is a sport, if I do consider this a sport should Vick be held accountable.
My opinion on this issue, is that Michael Vick should not be punished for dog fighting, he should be punished for killing those Dogs that he did kill, the dog fighting issue weather or not its a sport is a totally different question, and its a question that I find hard to answer, I think it is a sport (Even though when I first heard the news I didnt think so) I have changed my position here.
this is no different than a man who shoots a deer or a duck, atleast here with Dog fighting, both dogs have a chance to win, when guys go out duck hunting or deer hunting those animals have Zero chance once those sites are put on them and that trigger is pulled nothing happens to those guys who out right kills animals and claim that, that is a sport.
infact they to are killing animals this is no different than Vick killing those dogs, I think what happens all to often in America is that once you have a great athleate like Vick in the head lines like this, the people call for his head, because somewhere down the line we have set some guidelines as to how an athleate who is paid millions should carry himself.
I dont think it warrents Vick from lossing his job, I dont think he should really be punished for the dog fighting, I think for the killings yes but even then its a hard call to make, as I said hunters kill animals every day and nothing happens to them hell nobody even cares about that.
I think the deeper issue here is the fact that Michael Vick is a rich black athleate and that is the bottom line, our country loves to drag these guys through the mud and fuck their lives up just because and I think that is the case here.
ask yourself is anything Vick done here any different than what deer and duck and elk hunters have done? how do you justify killing an animal for one sport yet not for the other?
rusty_trombone
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Aug 25 2007, 05:06 PM) [snapback]355031[/snapback]
when this was first made public I felt Vick should be shot in the head in all honesty and a part of me still sort of feels that way, However when I look this issue regarding dog fighting as a sport, I ask myself weather or not I could consider it a sport and if it is a sport, if I do consider this a sport should Vick be held accountable.
My opinion on this issue, is that Michael Vick should not be punished for dog fighting, he should be punished for killing those Dogs that he did kill, the dog fighting issue weather or not its a sport is a totally different question, and its a question that I find hard to answer, I think it is a sport (Even though when I first heard the news I didnt think so) I have changed my position here.
this is no different than a man who shoots a deer or a duck, atleast here with Dog fighting, both dogs have a chance to win, when guys go out duck hunting or deer hunting those animals have Zero chance once those sites are put on them and that trigger is pulled nothing happens to those guys who out right kills animals and claim that, that is a sport.
infact they to are killing animals this is no different than Vick killing those dogs, I think what happens all to often in America is that once you have a great athleate like Vick in the head lines like this, the people call for his head, because somewhere down the line we have set some guidelines as to how an athleate who is paid millions should carry himself.
I dont think it warrents Vick from lossing his job, I dont think he should really be punished for the dog fighting, I think for the killings yes but even then its a hard call to make, as I said hunters kill animals every day and nothing happens to them hell nobody even cares about that.
I think the deeper issue here is the fact that Michael Vick is a rich black athleate and that is the bottom line, our country loves to drag these guys through the mud and fuck their lives up just because and I think that is the case here.
ask yourself is anything Vick done here any different than what deer and duck and elk hunters have done? how do you justify killing an animal for one sport yet not for the other?


That's fine, but this in no way was a crusade for making dogfighting legal. If you want to take on the hunting industry and fight for the banning of hunting, or fight for the legalization of dogfighting, go ahead. Fact of the matter is that, Vick knowingly took part of an illegal activity. Period. Hunting happens to be legal, fighting dogs happens to be illegal.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(rusty_trombone @ Aug 25 2007, 02:30 PM) [snapback]355033[/snapback]
That's fine, but this in no way was a crusade for making dogfighting legal. If you want to take on the hunting industry and fight for the banning of hunting, or fight for the legalization of dogfighting, go ahead. Fact of the matter is that, Vick knowingly took part of an illegal activity. Period. Hunting happens to be legal, fighting dogs happens to be illegal.



I agree with you, but in terms of his actual actions (Killing an animal) which is really the back bone of this case because you know the Animal rights activist are all over this for mistreating animals, the truth is you cant justify killing, so in terms of him killing the dogs that is no different than a man who kills a deer or a duck or an elk, killing is killing no matter how you look at it and killing an animal is killing an animal period be it with your bare hands or with a gun.
Dog fighting is not legal and I am not so sure that its illegal to be honest with you, I know that if you add gambling to it its illegal but I have no idea what charges would be brought on someone for dog fighting, but I aint no attorney either. However I still do not think it should cost him his job, I just dont.
How many catholic priest are still allowed to practice after they have been charged with molesting a kid?
I mean if you dont lose your job in the catholic church for molesting children why should Vick lose his job for having dog fights
Southeastpaw
I may be mistaken, but I doubt it as long as my sources have been honest. But doesn't one of the dogs end up dying most of the time in one of these dogfighting matches? This is some of the info I have gathered about this so-called sport. So, yes Vick was involved in the drowning and hanging of pits, but the actual match is pretty much one dog killing another. Plus it's illegal either way as rusty was stating.
imperial
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Aug 25 2007, 07:12 PM) [snapback]355045[/snapback]
I may be mistaken, but I doubt it as long as my sources have been honest. But doesn't one of the dogs end up dying most of the time in one of these dogfighting matches? This is some of the info I have gathered about this so-called sport. So, yes Vick was involved in the drowning and hanging of pits, but the actual match is pretty much one dog killing another. Plus it's illegal either way as rusty was stating.



Depends the dogs stay alive as long as they keep winning ..It also depends on the sex if you have a very good fighting dog they usually make them have pups so they can keep the bloodline going ..
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(imperial @ Aug 25 2007, 04:41 PM) [snapback]355048[/snapback]
Depends the dogs stay alive as long as they keep winning ..It also depends on the sex if you have a very good fighting dog they usually make them have pups so they can keep the bloodline going ..



You seem to know just a tad bit too much info about this, so I will let you answer those questions, the only thing I was even putting my input on was from the legal stand point, and no I am not an attorney I just dont see how far they can go with something like this in the legal system it seems like Vick to me can do some serious time here, on the other hand so many worse violent offeneders have gotten slaps on the wrist for their crimes.
imperial
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Aug 25 2007, 07:44 PM) [snapback]355050[/snapback]
You seem to know just a tad bit too much info about this, so I will let you answer those questions, the only thing I was even putting my input on was from the legal stand point, and no I am not an attorney I just dont see how far they can go with something like this in the legal system it seems like Vick to me can do some serious time here, on the other hand so many worse violent offeneders have gotten slaps on the wrist for their crimes.



Dude I grew up on the east coast and spent my youth back and forth from NJ to NY ..Dog fighting has been around for yrs ..

I never attended one and nor will I ever but I knew people who knew people who were involved and gathered the info from that ..And your right look at Lindsey Lohan 2 DUI and Possesion of Cocaine ..All she servedd was 1 day in jail ??? WTF then you wonder why no one takes the justice system seriously !
imperial
I think anyone who is involved in dog fighting should either "

Participate in the very same ring ring against another dog owner and have their hands tied behind their back injected with roids and be made to fight only using their teeth ..


Or


Be locked in a room w/their hands tied behind their back and have the dogs that are used for fighting let lose on them and let them be torn to shreds ..!!

If they survive they should be violated by every rape stick ever made !!


Now thats street justice bitches !
caneman
QUOTE(imperial @ Aug 25 2007, 10:29 PM) [snapback]355071[/snapback]
I think anyone who is involved in dog fighting should either "

Participate in the very same ring ring against another dog owner and have their hands tied behind their back injected with roids and be made to fight only using their teeth ..
Or
Be locked in a room w/their hands tied behind their back and have the dogs that are used for fighting let lose on them and let them be torn to shreds ..!!

If they survive they should be violated by every rape stick ever made !!
Now thats street justice bitches !



yea ok...mike vick fights a pitbull & wins & he is free....better???????????????lmao
BGv2.0
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Aug 25 2007, 04:06 PM) [snapback]355031[/snapback]
when this was first made public I felt Vick should be shot in the head in all honesty and a part of me still sort of feels that way, However when I look this issue regarding dog fighting as a sport, I ask myself weather or not I could consider it a sport and if it is a sport, if I do consider this a sport should Vick be held accountable.
My opinion on this issue, is that Michael Vick should not be punished for dog fighting, he should be punished for killing those Dogs that he did kill, the dog fighting issue weather or not its a sport is a totally different question, and its a question that I find hard to answer, I think it is a sport (Even though when I first heard the news I didnt think so) I have changed my position here.
this is no different than a man who shoots a deer or a duck, atleast here with Dog fighting, both dogs have a chance to win, when guys go out duck hunting or deer hunting those animals have Zero chance once those sites are put on them and that trigger is pulled nothing happens to those guys who out right kills animals and claim that, that is a sport.
infact they to are killing animals this is no different than Vick killing those dogs, I think what happens all to often in America is that once you have a great athleate like Vick in the head lines like this, the people call for his head, because somewhere down the line we have set some guidelines as to how an athleate who is paid millions should carry himself.
I dont think it warrents Vick from lossing his job, I dont think he should really be punished for the dog fighting, I think for the killings yes but even then its a hard call to make, as I said hunters kill animals every day and nothing happens to them hell nobody even cares about that.
I think the deeper issue here is the fact that Michael Vick is a rich black athleate and that is the bottom line, our country loves to drag these guys through the mud and fuck their lives up just because and I think that is the case here.
ask yourself is anything Vick done here any different than what deer and duck and elk hunters have done? how do you justify killing an animal for one sport yet not for the other?


Man....I have read some dumb shit on this site...but this tops it. Are you sure you did not call in on a radio show arguing this same moronic NON-point? Because if not...that means there are two morons running around spreading nonsense.

Comparing Dog Fighting to Hunting is retarded....it's like apples and oranges.

First of all....your attempt to say that the animals that are hunted " have Zero chance"....is total bullshit. Ask duck hunters how many times they have missed them flying overhead as opposed to getting them. That just about applies to any fowl. And as for a deer, ever had a buck gore you with a 12 point rack when you are going in to finish the job? I had a buddy that thought the buck was dead and went into start field dressing and the Buck out of the blue used his antlers to jab his hand, which in turn made him slice his entire thigh wide open and damn near slice off his balls.

Don't even get me started on Hog hunting....MANY a hunter has been ran up a tree by a pack of wild hogs.

This is one of the reasons it is so important to take the animal out with a single shot when possible. I have personally known hunters who actually get quite upset when they do not get a clean single shot kill.

Hunters have a respect for their prey....unlike thug ass dog fighters who could not care less about the pain their animal suffers though....

Also, hunting serves to thin out populations of animals that need it. And also is a source of sustanance. What does dog fighting actually have a positive effect on?

AND....just about all hunters spend TONS more on their hobby than what they ever take in....unlike dog fighting which is all about making cash.

And your claim that there is no difference between Vick's mode of killing as opposed to hunters.....as I said Hunters attempt to inflict as little pain on the animal as possible.....electrocution and drowning is far from humane.

As a matter of fact....if he had just simply taken the animals out back and killed them with a single gunshot.....I don't think you would have half the outrage you have now.....electrocution and drowning is simply awful thug shit.


And you are right...we do have guidelines that millionaires are supposed to follow....the reason being is because they are in the spotlight and THEY SHOULD LIVE IN A RIGHT AND PROPER WAY. Get mad about it all you want...but IMHO...if it was me...I would not mind living a clean life if you are paying me tons of cash. You make it sound as if this expectation is somehow unfair.

And....to top off all your bullshit....you even managed to pull the race card! Let me tell you this....had this been Payton Manning you would STILL be seeing this uproar....only the NAACP would not be backing America to forgive and forget!

If you have not gone back and done some serious re-thinking on this issue and you ACTUALLY believe the nonsense you typed on here......you're a F'N tard....plain and simple!


Vick made a poor choice and he deserves whatever life decides to dish out to him. Your (and others) mentality that we need to somehow ease up on people is nonsense. People make choices.....black or white. If you make STUPID ones....you deserve whatever you get. Maybe if the dipshit had been thinking about his career as much as you and his fans do....he would not be in this situation.

I hope he never takes a NFL snap again in his life. That would not bother me one bit. AND...this new commish should use him as an example....no matter how many millions he's worth.....the image of the entire league is more important in the long run. Use this punk to set an example....so that we won't EVER be having this conversation again!

Method
Agreed, BG.
JD
My take has been stated and rehashed in the NFL thread...at the end of the day, Vick did this to himself - he exercised freewill over a 7 year period, and in doing so broke the law, tortured and killed innocent animals, violated his contract and violated NFL conduct policies repeatedly.

The NFL will deal with him when he gets out of jail because only than can he serve a suspension, and as a convicted felon he certainly should not have his old job waiting for him with no repercussions from his boss like nothing happened. Vick gave it all away.

PFT had a good rundown on what to expect...

VICK'S RETURN TO NFL LOOKS LESS AND LESS LIKELY

Though much of the talk this week has centered on whether Mike Vick should get another chance to play football in the NFL, we think that it's all premature until his various incarcerations and suspensions have ended. By the time Mike is free and clear to return, he might be too old to play.

Even if he isn't, there are indications that Commissioner Roger Goodell might never let Vick back in.

The statement of facts signed Thursday by Vick contains enough evidence to permit Virginia authorities to easily convict him for violation of three different gambling statutes, including sections 3.1-796.124(A)(2), 18.2-326, and 18.2-328. The first and the third statutes provide that violations are Class 6 felonies, which under Virginia law entail a prison term of 1-5 years each.

The statement of facts also includes enough admissions to permit prosecution of Vick for multiple counts of violating Virginia dog-fighting laws, and at least six counts of animal cruelty resulting in death. Again, these are Class 6 felonies, with 1-5 years per count as the penalty.

Vick likewise has exposed himself to prosecution in North Carolina and South Carolina by admitting to traveling to both states to conduct dog fights.

Assuming that the legal dust settles while Vick is still young enough to be attractive to one or more NFL teams, the bigger question is whether Commissioner Roger Goodell will allow him to return. Ever.

We've gotten our eyeballs on the letter sent by Goodell to Vick, which actually was addressed to him in care of his agent, Joel Segal. It contains some ominous statements, and it's easy to conclude that Goodell never wants to see Vick wearing a helmet or jersey that bear the shield.

"[Y]our conduct plainly merits a significant sanction by the NFL," Goodell said.

In the final paragraph, Goodell said, "You are now justifiably facing the consequences for the decisions you made and the conduct in which you engaged. Your career, freedom, and public standing are now in the most serious jeopardy."

Vick's career is in "the most serious jeopardy." In other words, Vick likely will never play again.

But we think that Goodell will continue to take a wait-and-see approach, deferring any firm decisions on Vick until such decisions need to be made. He will be in the custody of the federal government for most if not all of 2008, and beyond that he might have an extended stay in Virginia and/or one (or both) of the Carolinas.

So it might be that Goodell never has to make any other decisions about Vick. If/when Goodell has the occasion or the necessity to act, we suspect that Vick won't like the outcome.

Finally, Goodell has given Vick an opportunity to appeal the current indefinite suspension. But since the suspension has been imposed pursuant to the Personal Conduct Policy, any appeal will be heard by Goodell, who we think won't be inclined to change his mind.

Besides, Vick has far bigger problems in the near term than trying to lift an indefinite suspension, especially since no team would touch him while he's awaiting incarceration, or during his imprisonment.
imperial
QUOTE(JD @ Aug 26 2007, 09:41 AM) [snapback]355142[/snapback]
My take has been stated and rehashed in the NFL thread...at the end of the day, Vick did this to himself - he exercised freewill over a 7 year period, and in doing so broke the law, tortured and killed innocent animals, violated his contract and violated NFL conduct policies repeatedly.

The NFL will deal with him when he gets out of jail because only than can he serve a suspension, and as a convicted felon he certainly should not have his old job waiting for him with no repercussions from his boss like nothing happened. Vick gave it all away.

PFT had a good rundown on what to expect...

VICK'S RETURN TO NFL LOOKS LESS AND LESS LIKELY

Though much of the talk this week has centered on whether Mike Vick should get another chance to play football in the NFL, we think that it's all premature until his various incarcerations and suspensions have ended. By the time Mike is free and clear to return, he might be too old to play.

Even if he isn't, there are indications that Commissioner Roger Goodell might never let Vick back in.

The statement of facts signed Thursday by Vick contains enough evidence to permit Virginia authorities to easily convict him for violation of three different gambling statutes, including sections 3.1-796.124(A)(2), 18.2-326, and 18.2-328. The first and the third statutes provide that violations are Class 6 felonies, which under Virginia law entail a prison term of 1-5 years each.

The statement of facts also includes enough admissions to permit prosecution of Vick for multiple counts of violating Virginia dog-fighting laws, and at least six counts of animal cruelty resulting in death. Again, these are Class 6 felonies, with 1-5 years per count as the penalty.

Vick likewise has exposed himself to prosecution in North Carolina and South Carolina by admitting to traveling to both states to conduct dog fights.

Assuming that the legal dust settles while Vick is still young enough to be attractive to one or more NFL teams, the bigger question is whether Commissioner Roger Goodell will allow him to return. Ever.

We've gotten our eyeballs on the letter sent by Goodell to Vick, which actually was addressed to him in care of his agent, Joel Segal. It contains some ominous statements, and it's easy to conclude that Goodell never wants to see Vick wearing a helmet or jersey that bear the shield.

"[Y]our conduct plainly merits a significant sanction by the NFL," Goodell said.

In the final paragraph, Goodell said, "You are now justifiably facing the consequences for the decisions you made and the conduct in which you engaged. Your career, freedom, and public standing are now in the most serious jeopardy."

Vick's career is in "the most serious jeopardy." In other words, Vick likely will never play again.

But we think that Goodell will continue to take a wait-and-see approach, deferring any firm decisions on Vick until such decisions need to be made. He will be in the custody of the federal government for most if not all of 2008, and beyond that he might have an extended stay in Virginia and/or one (or both) of the Carolinas.

So it might be that Goodell never has to make any other decisions about Vick. If/when Goodell has the occasion or the necessity to act, we suspect that Vick won't like the outcome.

Finally, Goodell has given Vick an opportunity to appeal the current indefinite suspension. But since the suspension has been imposed pursuant to the Personal Conduct Policy, any appeal will be heard by Goodell, who we think won't be inclined to change his mind.

Besides, Vick has far bigger problems in the near term than trying to lift an indefinite suspension, especially since no team would touch him while he's awaiting incarceration, or during his imprisonment.



How stupid does he feel right now !!
X3_Bazooka_X3
I am not sure Vick is being charged with Dog fighting I beleive from what I have heard is that he plead guilty to helping kill dogs, if that is the sole charge that he has then there is no difference between what he is convicted with and hunting an animal. just my opinion.
Mino
Fuck Vick, he deserves everything he gets, playing in the NFL is a privledge not a righ, and he threw it away so screw him
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 26 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]355172[/snapback]
Pffft.



Explain what the difference between killing and killing is? Just because you call it hunting and lable it as a sport that still does not change the fact that you are killing
JD
From PFT...who I have to say is the ONLY site who was on this story from day 1, and their coverage has been unparalleled.

12 OF THE VICK DOGS WEREN'T PIT BULLS

We'd always been confused about the total number of dogs removed from Mike Vick's property in April. Some reports had the number at 66 dogs; others said there were 54.

Based on a nugget buried in the latest ESPN.com item regarding the Vick saga is an indication that the correct number is 66 total dogs, and only 54 pit bulls.

Writes Elizabeth Merrill: "Approximately 12 other dogs were seized from the Vick residence. Some are believed to be beagles, and animal activists hope they are adoptable. It's unclear why Vick had them."

Here's why Vick had them, Liz -- they were practice dogs. Canines of weaker breeds intended for use in testing sessions. You know, the same testing sessions that 6-8 pit bulls failed that same month, prompting Vick and his cohorts to conclude that, if the pit bulls weren't able to fight, there was no point continuing to spending money feeding and caring for them. After all, Mike had committed to giving $10,000 to the victims of the Virginia Tech shootings; he needed to reduce that Alpo line on the 1915 Moonlight Road budget.

Thus, maybe some of those beagles were the dogs that exposed some of the 6-8 pit bulls as pussycats.

We apologize for being so frank about this, but we believe candor on the present topic is required so that folks don't lose sight of what this operation was all about. It had nothing to do with "loving" dogs; the dogs were the vehicles for Vick's "love" of watching two animals fight.

As one reader wrote on Friday after reading about Vick's insistence that he didn't game on dog fights: "Now I understand. Mike Vick didn't run a dog fighting operation and go to dog fights to gamble. Because he's not a gambler. It says it right on his plea agreement. He just went to see the dogs rip each other to shreds. Not for the excitement of winning or losing few bucks but for the blood, guts, gore, suffering, and death. So at least he's not a gambler, just a sadistic, sick mofo. I feel much better now. For a minute I thought he had some awful character flaw like gambling."
Bill The Butcher
I guess Vick should have said he likes to eat pitbulls.
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Aug 26 2007, 03:41 PM) [snapback]355168[/snapback]
I am not sure Vick is being charged with Dog fighting I beleive from what I have heard is that he plead guilty to helping kill dogs, if that is the sole charge that he has then there is no difference between what he is convicted with and hunting an animal. just my opinion.


I am not into hunting either. But hunting is shooting an animal with a bow or a gun and using the remains for something to eat or fur. Vick took part in hanging and drowning dogs because he had no more use for them. Comon Bazooka. Not the same what-so-ever.
caneman
i just don't get how some people thing!!! laugh.gif nor do i see how some are defending this guy. it's just unreal to me! dntknw.gif
imperial
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Aug 27 2007, 09:59 AM) [snapback]355198[/snapback]
I am not into hunting either. But hunting is shooting an animal with a bow or a gun and using the remains for something to eat or fur. Vick took part in hanging and drowning dogs because he had no more use for them. Comon Bazooka. Not the same what-so-ever.



Um no not all animals killed in hunting are used for food or cloth but then again do we need more fur???Its no different than killing dogs for entertainment...If you kill a bear and put his hide on your living room floor how is that humane ?Last I checked bear wasn't a delacasy !!
caneman
just to get something off my chest here....while i am a dog lover & hate that vick was involved in this! while watching ESPN, i have to admit that i think skip bayless is a total asshole! i am not even sure who he is, but i think he should break out his butt plug & STFU! ok my rant is over....we now turn y'all to your normal programming! drinks.gif
caneman
i like what vick said, & thought it was good that he wasn't reading notes! as an older man, i have to say that one of the most important things in life is learning from your mistakes & owning up for actions as a MAN! i hope that he becomes that better man & notice i didn't say football player!
BGv2.0
QUOTE(Fitz @ Aug 27 2007, 01:31 AM) [snapback]355188[/snapback]
I can't believe I have to even explain it.

I don't even know why I had to explain this.



I can't believe it....and I don't know why either. BUT....it appears there is a rash of people that need to read your explanation, as this is an argument I have heard time and time again.

I'm starting to think it's simply a culture clash argument....

The difference in my mind is so apparent it's not even in the same ball park....but then again, I have been exposed to BOTH topics, I've seen both first hand.

I'm thinking the people that use the argument for hunting and dog fighting being on the same playing field either have a love for one and ZERO knowledge of the other...OR...zero knowledge of both and are simply tossing out completly ignorant ideas.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Aug 27 2007, 06:59 AM) [snapback]355198[/snapback]
I am not into hunting either. But hunting is shooting an animal with a bow or a gun and using the remains for something to eat or fur. Vick took part in hanging and drowning dogs because he had no more use for them. Comon Bazooka. Not the same what-so-ever.



its not the same when teh hunters follow the rules of that sport correct but how many times do they find live game on the road side and pull over to shoot it? yet nothing happens to these people. I aint defending Vick by any means I am pointing out that the media and public are being too harsh on him just my thoughts.
Method
QUOTE
Writes Elizabeth Merrill: "Approximately 12 other dogs were seized from the Vick residence. Some are believed to be beagles, and animal activists hope they are adoptable. It's unclear why Vick had them."

Here's why Vick had them, Liz -- they were practice dogs. Canines of weaker breeds intended for use in testing sessions.


Damn. They practiced on Snoopy?
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(imperial @ Aug 27 2007, 10:39 AM) [snapback]355203[/snapback]
Um no not all animals killed in hunting are used for food or cloth but then again do we need more fur???Its no different than killing dogs for entertainment...If you kill a bear and put his hide on your living room floor how is that humane ?Last I checked bear wasn't a delacasy !!


I've known people to eat bear. My wife is from Alaska and hunters do it all the time. So, it is a delicacy to many. Again, I do not support hunting, except for the fact that I love to eat meat. So I guess that makes me a hypocrite in a sense. Hunting goes back to the earliest of settlers and has continued on as a sport. Sure there are people that abuse this and should be dealed according to the law.

You have to also realize Vick's place in this world. He is a sports star and a role model for kids. He is known to have a huge involvement in this and kills these dogs because he does not want to spend money on them anymore if they are not going to benefit him in a fight. Thus the way he goes about killing these dogs is not "sporty".

So I am not sure where you stand with this imperial with that statement. Are you saying it is not that bad what Vick did compared to the sport of hunting? Or that hunting should be banned because it is just as inhumane as what Vick is doing?
imperial
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Aug 27 2007, 01:48 PM) [snapback]355226[/snapback]
I've known people to eat bear. My wife is from Alaska and hunters do it all the time. So, it is a delicacy to many. Again, I do not support hunting, except for the fact that I love to eat meat. So I guess that makes me a hypocrite in a sense. Hunting goes back to the earliest of settlers and has continued on as a sport. Sure there are people that abuse this and should be dealed according to the law.

You have to also realize Vick's place in this world. He is a sports star and a role model for kids. He is known to have a huge involvement in this and kills these dogs because he does not want to spend money on them anymore if they are not going to benefit him in a fight. Thus the way he goes about killing these dogs is not "sporty".

So I am not sure where you stand with this imperial with that statement. Are you saying it is not that bad what Vick did compared to the sport of hunting? Or that hunting should be banned because it is just as inhumane as what Vick is doing?



I have known people to eat dog,cat,ferrit etc whats your point ..In NJ its not the 1st thing people are putting on their plates ..Not to mention its not always done for food or clothing ..Same thing w/a dog ..My point is we are all hypocrites ..If u served me a bear burger w/waffle fries depending on the taste I might ask for more .My thing is why are people acting like he was ths 1st one to do it ?

Animals get brutalized in hunting and in fighting, is one form of killing more natural or more humane than the other ?? I don't see how you can justify either !!

I think both should be banned unless its for ones survival ...
Boss Hogg
QUOTE(caneman @ Aug 27 2007, 10:34 AM) [snapback]355201[/snapback]
i just don't get how some people thing!!! laugh.gif nor do i see how some are defending this guy. it's just unreal to me! dntknw.gif


I'll tell you why I'm in defense of him losing his livelihood, its simple, because he's black and everytime a black man(with or without money) does anything wrong in the good Ol U.S. of A he's demonized, villafied, and destroyed, never to be given a chance again. Blacks and Latinos are what 1/3 of the population yet we're probably 90% of the prison population. Those figures are staggering!

Why do you think black people were so happy that O.J' got off? It surely wasn't because they believed he was innocent it was because for once they saw a man of color beat a system that for centuries has falsely judged black men based on the decisions of all white juries. (Not saying all were innocent back then, but a lot were)

Listen to some of the post in here, you'd think the man raped a 9 year old little girl, like that sicko John Couey did! No he was involved in an illegal activity(dog-fighting) which warrants punishment, which is exactly what he's getting PUNISHMENT. He's been stripped of his job, endorsements and freedom what else do you want from him....his blood?

He's admitted his guilt, he's apologized to everyone, what else do you want him to do? Seriously! Its disgusting how much some of you show of yourselves with what you write. I started this thread purposely just to see how venomous some people are when a situation involves a black man.

Let's start a thread on John Couey next so we can see the differennce in tone.....shall we?
dj necrogenic
Fuck that motherfucker, he was torturing animals for his own twisted entertainment. He deserves to be in jail, he deserves to lose his livelyhood, and he deserves to lose his anal cherry
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Boss Hogg @ Aug 27 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]355233[/snapback]
I'll tell you why I'm in defense of him losing his livelihood, its simple, because he's black and everytime a black man(with or without money) does anything wrong in the good Ol U.S. of A his demonized, villafied, and destroyed, never to be given a chance again. Blacks and Latinos are what 1/3 of the population yet we're probably 90% of the prison population. Those figures are staggering!

Why do you think black people were so happy that O.J' got off? It surely wasn't because they believed he was innocent it was because for once they saw a man of color beat a system that for centuries has falsely judged black men based on the decisions of all white juries. (Not saying all were innocent back then, but a lot were)

Listen to some of the post in here, you'd think the man raped a 9 year old little girl, like that sicko John Couey did! No he was involved in an illegal activity(dog-fighting) which warrants punishment, which is exactly what he's getting PUNISHMENT. He's been stripped of his job, endorsements and freedom what else do you want from him....his blood?

He's admitted his guilt, he's apologized to everyone, what else do you want him to do? Seriously! Its disgusting how much some of you show of yourselves with what you write. I started this thread purposely just to see how venomous some people are when a situation involves a black man.

Let's start a thread on John Couey next so we can see the differennce in tone.....shall we?



Exactly the truth, the public has made this as big as it is becuase of both Vicks star status and because he is black, this wouldnt have been a huge media event if it were some country bumpkin rednecks, of which I am sure the FBI has already busted several similar operations of which the people were white and did you see any of that shit on CNN? I didnt think so, could someone tell me why that is?
dj necrogenic
I love how you fuckers can just spin shit around ignoring what someone actually does and make this a race issue... I dont give a fuck if he's a nigger, spic, cracker, gook, wetback, fucking martian.. Who the fuck cares dude profitted off of the suffering of dogs, he killed dogs, and not just shooting them, he fucking tortured them. Dude deserves to be ruined in his career. Has nothing to do with his race. He's a piece of shit of a human being. Stop trying to act like its a race issue. Fucking race card gets thrown out there too quick these days
Boss Hogg
QUOTE(dj necrogenic @ Aug 27 2007, 03:43 PM) [snapback]355237[/snapback]
I love how you fuckers can just spin shit around ignoring what someone actually does and make this a race issue... I dont give a fuck if he's a nigger, spic, cracker, gook, wetback, fucking martian.. Who the fuck cares dude profitted off of the suffering of dogs, he killed dogs, and not just shooting them, he fucking tortured them. Dude deserves to be ruined in his career. Has nothing to do with his race. He's a piece of shit of a human being. Stop trying to act like its a race issue. Fucking race card gets thrown out there too quick these days


laugh.gif

I can't even respond to this nonsense. Get an education and come talk to me after you've graduated from pre-school.
dj necrogenic
QUOTE(Boss Hogg @ Aug 27 2007, 12:49 PM) [snapback]355240[/snapback]
laugh.gif

I can't even respond to this nonsense. Get an education and come talk to me after you've graduated from pre-school.

I got me a GED... Stop using crying racial prejudice every time you get busted for breaking the law fucknut...
Boss Hogg
QUOTE(dj necrogenic @ Aug 27 2007, 03:56 PM) [snapback]355241[/snapback]
I got me a GED... Stop using crying racial prejudice every time you get busted for breaking the law fucknut...


Congratulations on the GED, seriously..... Education is the key to success in this country, especially if you are a MINORITY, which is what we are referred to here. I'll stop crying racial prejudice when it stops happening until then cray.gif
dj necrogenic
QUOTE(Boss Hogg @ Aug 27 2007, 01:01 PM) [snapback]355242[/snapback]
Congratulations on the GED, seriously..... Education is the key to success in this country, especially if you are a MINORITY, which is what we are referred to here. I'll stop crying racial prejudice when it stops happening until then cray.gif

Well if you want to keep using as a crutch by all means go ahead. But some of us choose not to get in trouble, and further implecate our race, and fuel their stereotypes of us. But hey if you feel better just crying about them being the bad man and treating us wrong then go for it.
Boss Hogg
QUOTE(dj necrogenic @ Aug 27 2007, 04:02 PM) [snapback]355243[/snapback]
Well if you want to keep using as a crutch by all means go ahead. But some of us choose not to get in trouble, and further implecate our race, and fuel their stereotypes of us. But hey if you feel better just crying about them being the bad man and treating us wrong then go for it.


True, and some of us CHOOSE to defend us when others choose to join them in demonizing us any chance they get.
dj necrogenic
QUOTE(Boss Hogg @ Aug 27 2007, 01:11 PM) [snapback]355247[/snapback]
True, and some of us CHOOSE to defend us when others choose to join them in demonizing us any chance they get.

Some of us choose to call a spade a spade and admit that beating and killing dogs for entertainment, and horribly wrong regardless of what race of person does that.
caneman
sorry but i don't see this as a race thing! i am not racist @ all....how do i know? if a black man or whatever dated my sister, i would give my blessing if he treated her right & made her happy! all i know is if i did what vick did & got caught, i would expect the same thing until i served my sentence. IMO after that he can still live a good life even if it's without football...there are more important things in live even if every saturday you can hardly get me away from the TV! vick's life ain't over, he just has to re-write & show what he really has inside of him! i wish him luck! i just can't see hurting something that would love you like my snoop dogg >>>
X3_Bazooka_X3
I beleive this is a race issue, not becuase Vick is simply black but becuase he is a rich Black NFL star lets face is Football is about as american as apple pie, if not more, had Vick just been Vick and not an atlanta falcon not a rich black man you wouldnt see much of him on CNN or FOX, you might catch a quick in the news moment about what he did but not this kind of coverage.
all to often the american public and media are too quick to point the finger at a black rich athleate before he is even found guilty its as if the man is guilty period with out a trial. yet if you think America isnt like that then explain how Vice President Cheney "mistakenly shot his friend in the face while hunting" yet Nobody even questioned weather or not he did that shit on purpose or if he did that for some reason or another automaticly it was a mistake, How the fuck do you shoot someone in the face by mistake?
And how the hell does the victom then come out and apoligize to the man who shot him in the face by "Mistake"? the people of America did not question the actions of Mr Cheney yet automaticly make guys like Vick, Simpson, Lewis and carruth (if I spelled that right) guilty months before a trial even begins and some of you think this isnt an issue of race.
dj necrogenic
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Aug 27 2007, 01:44 PM) [snapback]355251[/snapback]
I beleive this is a race issue, not becuase Vick is simply black but becuase he is a rich Black NFL star lets face is Football is about as american as apple pie, if not more, had Vick just been Vick and not an atlanta falcon not a rich black man you wouldnt see much of him on CNN or FOX, you might catch a quick in the news moment about what he did but not this kind of coverage.
all to often the american public and media are too quick to point the finger at a black rich athleate before he is even found guilty its as if the man is guilty period with out a trial. yet if you think America isnt like that then explain how Vice President Cheney "mistakenly shot his friend in the face while hunting" yet Nobody even questioned weather or not he did that shit on purpose or if he did that for some reason or another automaticly it was a mistake, How the fuck do you shoot someone in the face by mistake?
And how the hell does the victom then come out and apoligize to the man who shot him in the face by "Mistake"? the people of America did not question the actions of Mr Cheney yet automaticly make guys like Vick, Simpson, Lewis and carruth (if I spelled that right) guilty months before a trial even begins and some of you think this isnt an issue of race.

Yet another reason why when actual race problems occur they are just written off. Because you fucks cant admit a wrong. Dude how does a guy funding ILLEGAL dog fighting shit, admitting to not only killing but ELECTROCUTING dogs, become a race issue? Seriously people are outraged over this, just as they should it has nothing to do with his race whatsoever, it just has to do with the type of human being it takes to do shit like this. If he had accidentally went hunting and capped a friend in the ass, there might have been some funny jokes about but nothing more... If Dick fucking Cheney had admitted to electrocuting dogs and taking part in illegal dog fighting he'd be under the same scrutiny (if not worse) so stop using race as a way to feel an injustice has been done to a criminal.
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