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Maxy
It is being reported that the bout between Fernando Vargas and Ricardo Mayorga is off after it was discovered that Vargas is suffering from a blood deficiency. If this news is true it'll be a real shame.
imperial
Well if he eats more twinkies he can raise his suger levels up !!!!!!
_iodine_
boo-fuckin-hoo cray.gif
JD
In a way, I am happy this fight is off...now I will not be tempted to order it.

That said, I wish Vargas the best in finding out exactly what is wrong and remedying the situation.
X3_Bazooka_X3
I am glad this fight is off, Vargas would have gotten seriously hurt in there with Mayorga
TheAmblingAlp
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Aug 25 2007, 03:36 PM) [snapback]355040[/snapback]
I am glad this fight is off, Vargas would have gotten seriously hurt in there with Mayorga


Yeah right. Mayorga couldn't hurt shit at this point. In fact, he IS shit. And Vargas ain't far behind.
Southeastpaw
Now all we need is for Tito to suffer from an iron deficiency and all the habitual PPV buyers will be able to save a few more bucks.
HaydelHammer
Not surprised. With all the up and coming matches that have been made recently + them (mayorga and vargas) wanting to go PPV with their fight in the mix = "aint nobody watchin dat sh*t" ..and U know dis man!

They might as well call their sh*t off completely to be quit honest with you guys.
imperial
So the fight was at the press confrence then I scored it for Vargas laugh.gif
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(TheAmblingAlp @ Aug 25 2007, 04:02 PM) [snapback]355041[/snapback]
Yeah right. Mayorga couldn't hurt shit at this point. In fact, he IS shit. And Vargas ain't far behind.



Mayorga put up a much better fight in his last fight against De La Hoya than Vargas did in his last fight with Mosley, atleast Mayorga fought back, Vargas just stood there flat and took a beating he couldnt get off nothing, that is a clear sign of a totally shot fighter, if you dont think so then I dont know what else to tell you but in that fight Vargas did nothing at all to try and win the fight.
The same problem would have happend here, he would have stood right in front of Mayorga un able to pull the trigger, and he would have got knocked out, this is a result of the beatings he took during his career from fighters such as Trinidad and De La Hoya along with the beatings he gave himself at the dinner table in between fights you just cant keep doing that to your body you cant put on 60 70 and 80 pounds in between fights and come down to make weight and still have a prayer it dont work that way and in the last fight with Mosley it clearly showed you that sooner or later your body will tell you to fuck off, and it happend there.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(TheAmblingAlp @ Aug 25 2007, 07:02 PM) [snapback]355041[/snapback]
Yeah right. Mayorga couldn't hurt shit at this point. In fact, he IS shit. And Vargas ain't far behind.


Riiiight... so Mayorga's unorthodox power shots couldn't hurt Vargas but jabs from Flores and Rivera can. I've now heard it all.

X3_Bazooka_X3
according to Maxboxing the fight is not postponed nor is it off.
Southeastpaw
They've also still been running the countdown preview on Showtime regularly for the originally set date.
X3_Bazooka_X3
The news spread quickly throughout the boxing world on Saturday afternoon- Fernando Vargas would be pulling out of his September 8th grudge match against Ricardo Mayorga due to unspecified health concerns. Rumors were rampant - did he have hepatitis, HIV, malaria, Avian flu, the heebie-jeebies or the cooties?

None of the above.

It turns out that something you take to curb headaches has given Vargas one big stomach ache.

"I just want to tell everybody I'm alright," he would tell Maxboxing on Saturday afternoon."

Aspirin was at root of the problem.

"Every athlete has aches and pains. Maybe I was taking a little more aspirin than recommended," he would admit. "Wednesday afternoon I felt sick to my stomach. I felt like I wanted to throw up. I took Pepto-Bismol for that, thinking it would help me. But within hours it didn't make any difference. I thought I had the stomach flu, which is strange for me because I've only gotten sick one time in 11 years, that I can remember."

Vargas not only takes pride in staying healthy, he teases and taunts those who get ill.

"I laugh at people that are sick because I can walk around my house with a tank-top and everybody is sick and I don't get sick.

His condition would only worsen.

"Thursday morning, I felt worse," he would say. So he and his advisor, Joe Pecora, would go to a Dr. Phelps in Camarillo. "I told him I felt really sick to my stomach and weak. When he saw me, he said I looked pale. He asked me to take a urine test. He said my hemoglobin was low and my red-blood cells were also low. He asked me what color my stool was. I said, 'It's been black.' He goes, 'How long has it been black for?' I go, 'For three weeks.'"

You can put that under the 'too much info' category, but the diagnosis was clear, Vargas was anemic. Dr. Phelps would also recommend that he see a stomach specialist. "He thought I had a bleeding ulcer," said Vargas.

On Saturday morning he would be put through surgery.

"They put me under and they found sores on the surface of my stomach," Vargas would say. "The doctor said it was very common for people who take a lot of aspirin to have this. He suggested I shouldn't fight due to the fact I would need more time for my blood count to come back to normal."

'The Ferocious One' was prescribed rest.

"At least two weeks," he would say.

Pecora, who is with Vargas daily, saw a change in Vargas' condition a few days ago.

"I noticed he was losing some color in his face and that he was just kind of sluggish and wasn't moving around like his normal self," he would say. "Wednesday night he starts complaining that he wasn't feeling good, 'I'm sick.' And for him to say that to me, I've been with him for a long time, he's never told me that."

Now his job is to make sure Vargas gets his R-and-R.

"That's all we want him to do, just rest," said Pecora. "He can't train the way he needs to train to fight. So right now, he just needs to rest."

But Vargas makes it clear, he will face Mayorga.

"The fight’s postponed, not cancelled," he stated strongly. "So don't get that twisted. I want to shut this guy’s mouth up more than anybody. Because he opens his mouth about this and that. I'd been having a great camp."

But for now, "Just resting, my stomach is sore."
Elijah
So what's the deal with this fight, on or off? Also, if they cancel the main event will they still have the undercard because the main reason I wanted to get the PPV was to see Cintron fight.
X3_Bazooka_X3
According to Maxboxing and the interview with Vargas the fight is still on
JD
QUOTE(Elijah @ Aug 27 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]355222[/snapback]
So what's the deal with this fight, on or off? Also, if they cancel the main event will they still have the undercard because the main reason I wanted to get the PPV was to see Cintron fight.


On September 8th, Fernando Vargas and Ricardo Mayorga are NOT fighting.
Big Slim Sweet
The whole card's been canceled. Cintron is likely to fight on Showtime in December according to ESPN.
Elijah
Cintron actually said he would have been willing to fight Mayorga at 154 but Mayorga couldn't make the weight. If that is indeed true props to Cintron for stepping up and trying to save the card. He would have beat Mayorga much worse than Vargas too.
Elijah
"Showtime's Dec. 1 card has not been set yet, but there have been discussions about welterweight titlist Kermit Cintron headlining if he successfully defends his title Sept. 8 against Jesse Feliciano. According to Top Rank, it has been contacted about the availability of two of its boxers as possible opponents for Cintron: ex-titlist Antonio Margarito (who handed Cintron his only defeat) and top contender Joshua Clottey. Junior welterweight titlist Paulie Malignaggi could appear in the co-feature, promoter Lou DiBella told ESPN.com. DiBella said Showtime has backed off its suggestion that Malignaggi face a Gary Shaw-promoted boxer and is open to Malignaggi facing mandatory challenger Herman Ngoudjo or Francisco "Panchito" Bojado (if he defeats Steve Forbes on Sept. 15)."

I think Cintron is gonna just be too much for Clottey. If Cintron fights smart he'll make it difficult for Clottey to get inside where he's effective. I didn't think Clottey looked too great his last fight either.

Bojado can't fight Malignaggi yet either. He needs to have a few more fights before stepping in with a boxer/runner like Malignaggi.

X3_Bazooka_X3
Honestly the more I think about it the more I beleive that Vargas doesnt have a health issue, I really think the man is having trouble taking off the weight, I mean the man did put on a few pounds recently.
salvador
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Aug 28 2007, 04:57 PM) [snapback]355411[/snapback]
Honestly the more I think about it the more I beleive that Vargas doesnt have a health issue, I really think the man is having trouble taking off the weight, I mean the man did put on a few pounds recently.


Right after his second fight with Mosley, Avon said that he'd heard that Vargas had simply left training camp for a few days for no reason. His heart just ain't in it anymore and I think you're right about the weight. I think Vargas is just done.
Big Slim Sweet
Yeah unfortunately thaat sounds about right. My guess is he figured Mayorga was the one guy who could get him up for a fight again - the same rationale Oscar used last year - but it wasn't to be. And if this is the case I really, really hope he never fights again because considering the amount of punishment he's already taken he could get very seriously hurt.

Hang em up Nando.
Lil-lightsout
I was a big Vargas fan, he really went downhill fast. He could have been something special. I wonder if the Trinidad fight ruined him, or was it his lack of desire. He should just move on and look for something else to do with his life, though I was hoping Vargas would KO that fool Mayorga.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Aug 29 2007, 08:39 PM) [snapback]355595[/snapback]
I was a big Vargas fan, he really went downhill fast. He could have been something special. I wonder if the Trinidad fight ruined him, or was it his lack of desire. He should just move on and look for something else to do with his life, though I was hoping Vargas would KO that fool Mayorga.


I think it's pretty clear that the Trinidad fight ruined him. Vargas was never able to take a punch post Trinidad round 1 the way he could prior.

The fight is reported to be rescheduled for November 23 at the Staples Center.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 29 2007, 07:22 PM) [snapback]355598[/snapback]
I think it's pretty clear that the Trinidad fight ruined him. Vargas was never able to take a punch post Trinidad round 1 the way he could prior.

The fight is reported to be rescheduled for November 23 at the Staples Center.



I dont think it was the trinidad fight alone that destroyed vargas it was also his eating habits as well, when you put on that much weight between fights and starve yourself to make weight only to take more punishment sooner or later your body will tell you where to go, I think this is the case with Vargas he eats like a pig sort of on the James Toney Billy Banks training program and when you have to make weight un like Toney, you dry out dehydrating your body before going into a fight, I think that is what hurt him more after the fight with Tito.
if you look at him in between fights since the Tito fight you will notice that Vargas has put on mad weight, prior to that fight he never got fat like that between fights, so my take on it is, Tito beat the fight out of him and I starting to think that Vargas doubts his abilities and when you doubt yourself in that ring you may as well not be in there.
salvador
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 29 2007, 10:22 PM) [snapback]355598[/snapback]
I think it's pretty clear that the Trinidad fight ruined him. Vargas was never able to take a punch post Trinidad round 1 the way he could prior.


Yep, and RJJ is in the exact same boat. And the thing is that, with both guys, not only were their chins ruined, but their confidence was also shattered. I think Mayorga and Tito both have very real chances in these fights.

BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Aug 30 2007, 12:13 AM) [snapback]355604[/snapback]
I dont think it was the trinidad fight alone that destroyed vargas it was also his eating habits as well, when you put on that much weight between fights and starve yourself to make weight only to take more punishment sooner or later your body will tell you where to go, I think this is the case with Vargas he eats like a pig sort of on the James Toney Billy Banks training program and when you have to make weight un like Toney, you dry out dehydrating your body before going into a fight, I think that is what hurt him more after the fight with Tito.
if you look at him in between fights since the Tito fight you will notice that Vargas has put on mad weight, prior to that fight he never got fat like that between fights, so my take on it is, Tito beat the fight out of him and I starting to think that Vargas doubts his abilities and when you doubt yourself in that ring you may as well not be in there.


Nah it has nothing to do with weight. Perhaps weight contributed to a more rapid degradation, but that is not what ruined him. Look at Vargas throughout his career prior to the Trinidad left hook (even in the 1st round against Tito before getting caught). Then look at him from round 2 of that fight and for the rest of his career. The difference is night and day with respect to his ability to take a punch - even simple punches like jabs.



X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 30 2007, 04:21 PM) [snapback]355669[/snapback]
Nah it has nothing to do with weight. Perhaps weight contributed to a more rapid degradation, but that is not what ruined him. Look at Vargas throughout his career prior to the Trinidad left hook (even in the 1st round against Tito before getting caught). Then look at him from round 2 of that fight and for the rest of his career. The difference is night and day with respect to his ability to take a punch - even simple punches like jabs.



I think taking shots while your dehydrated played a big role in what has happend to him, remind you the man is sparring while killing himself to make weight as well. I never thought Vargas had a solid chin to be honest with you he has been buzzed by Winky and by Quartey as well, but back then Vargas had a little more fire in him to fight back and that is what IMO made the differnce in those fights.
I still disagree with you I dont think it was the Trinidad fight alone that ruined Nando I think his eating habits did as well it is not good to keep putting your body through that kind of punishment in the ring and out of it. either way he is done and I have no idea why anybody would want to see this fight, IMHO its a very dangerous fight for Vargas and it could end up costing him and the fans much more than a win.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Aug 30 2007, 07:37 PM) [snapback]355672[/snapback]
I think taking shots while your dehydrated played a big role in what has happend to him, remind you the man is sparring while killing himself to make weight as well. I never thought Vargas had a solid chin to be honest with you he has been buzzed by Winky and by Quartey as well, but back then Vargas had a little more fire in him to fight back and that is what IMO made the differnce in those fights.
I still disagree with you I dont think it was the Trinidad fight alone that ruined Nando I think his eating habits did as well it is not good to keep putting your body through that kind of punishment in the ring and out of it. either way he is done and I have no idea why anybody would want to see this fight, IMHO its a very dangerous fight for Vargas and it could end up costing him and the fans much more than a win.


So you think that Vargas became dehydrated during the 1st round of the Trinidad fight? Because like I said, his ability to take a shot changed from 1 punch and was never the same in his career. If it was eating habits, weight, dehydration etc it would be a problem that developed over time that we could see over the course of many fights and many years. The change we saw with Vargas happened in a matter of seconds, not years.

Jack 1000
Well, they are trying to reschedule this in November. If Vargas is so out of shape, or has medical problems, he should retire. But when is the last time Mayorga won a big fight?

Mayorga fights the same way. The wild (and easily timed) bull rushes coming in, but if you time him you can get him past the 5th round and win easily. Mayorga almost always falls apart in big fights. Vargas falls apart because his chin lets him down. But I think that Vargas is still more skilled and has more experience in big fights, (although he always seems to lose the big fights.) However the medical factors must now be taken into consideration.

Before the medical problems, I picked Vargas IF his chin could take Mayorga's early rushes. Now, I predict Mayorga in 6 by TKO.

Jack
Tha Docta
QUOTE(Jack 1000 @ Aug 31 2007, 09:59 AM) [snapback]355709[/snapback]
Well, they are trying to reschedule this in November. If Vargas is so out of shape, or has medical problems, he should retire. But when is the last time Mayorga won a big fight?

Mayorga fights the same way. The wild (and easily timed) bull rushes coming in, but if you time him you can get him past the 5th round and win easily. Mayorga almost always falls apart in big fights. Vargas falls apart because his chin lets him down. But I think that Vargas is still more skilled and has more experience in big fights, (although he always seems to lose the big fights.) However the medical factors must now be taken into consideration.

Before the medical problems, I picked Vargas IF his chin could take Mayorga's early rushes. Now, I predict Mayorga in 6 by TKO.

Jack



i think even this version of vargas is too strong for mayorga. mayorga is completely ineffective at anything over 154lbs. and even at 154lbs, his power is nothing special at all. at 147, the man is strong and can overpower his opponents.

i think nando KO's mayorga just because he will be too strong.

i also believe that nandos downfall had more to do with him being a slob in between fights than the trinidad fight. any man that lives as unhealthy as fernando cannot expect to fight at a high level for very long. plus it seems that puerto rican fans love to say that their fighters are ruining people. now people are sayign that cotto ruined judah, when cotto took alot of punishment as well during that fight.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Aug 31 2007, 10:07 AM) [snapback]355710[/snapback]
i think even this version of vargas is too strong for mayorga. mayorga is completely ineffective at anything over 154lbs. and even at 154lbs, his power is nothing special at all. at 147, the man is strong and can overpower his opponents.

i think nando KO's mayorga just because he will be too strong.

i also believe that nandos downfall had more to do with him being a slob in between fights than the trinidad fight. any man that lives as unhealthy as fernando cannot expect to fight at a high level for very long. plus it seems that puerto rican fans love to say that their fighters are ruining people. now people are sayign that cotto ruined judah, when cotto took alot of punishment as well during that fight.


First, do you really think Mosley hits all that much harder than Mayorga?

Second, I can't believe you guys that can't see a night and day difference between Vargas' ability to take punches after round 1 against Trinidad. Was the Trinidad fight the first time you guys saw Vargas fight or something? I think many of you need to revisit Vargas' handful of fights prior to Trinidad and then a handful of fights after Trinidad. If you don't see a difference between the Vargas that fought Campas, Wright and Marquez and the one that fought Flores, Rivera and DLH I highly recommend some Lasik surgery.

Method

November 23rd is a Friday. This fight gonna be on FNF?
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Aug 30 2007, 05:44 PM) [snapback]355675[/snapback]
So you think that Vargas became dehydrated during the 1st round of the Trinidad fight? Because like I said, his ability to take a shot changed from 1 punch and was never the same in his career. If it was eating habits, weight, dehydration etc it would be a problem that developed over time that we could see over the course of many fights and many years. The change we saw with Vargas happened in a matter of seconds, not years.


No I aint saying that, back then that is when Vargas was always in shape including in between fights, since then is a different story, I think that fight crushed him mentally and emotionaly since then the weight started to add up.
We did not see a change in Vargas in a matter of seconds that man fought in that fight until his body couldnt fight anymore and that was almost a full 12 rounds, if he changed in a matter of seconds he wouldnt have gotten up a total of five times in that fight.
and in that fight he was able to still make a good accounting for himself, he pressed Tito I beleive to the very limits both men in that fight tested each other in areas that they have never been tested in before up until this fight, the difference here was Tito was much more experienced.
since that fight look at how Vargas has looked a big part of it is because of the Tito fight, another big factor is the weight. and again I dont think Vargas had a rock solid chin seriously there were times he was stunned prior to this fight by lesser fighters Clark being one of them, Quartey rocked him a few times and he was the smaller man, Winky rocked his ass over and over, I just dont think the chin you have in mind is really the chin that he had.
and I disagree with you about this over time shit, if your dehydrated and you struggle to make weight that makes you more vunerable to getting floored, its a fact this isnt fiction here its the truth, a perfect example recently is Miguel Cotto he has been rocked and down at 140 but look at the difference at 147 and he was cracked by Judah who can bang better than Torres or Corley.
I know you would like to attribute all of the damage to that one fight, but that isnt the story, I train amateurs this is something that is very common in the gym when fighters train, train, and train sooner or later if they are getting the right ammount of fulids in their bodies, it happens, which is exactly why you saw a huge difference in the first and second mosley fight, the first fight Vargas was able to do some things in that fight and make it a close fight, the rematch he stood there doing nothing and got knocked out as a result, you can also take a look at how much weight he had to loss prior to the first fight then look at him prior to the second fight.
Method
I stopped reading when I got to, "Back when Vargas was always in shape".
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Tha Docta @ Aug 31 2007, 07:07 AM) [snapback]355710[/snapback]
i also believe that nandos downfall had more to do with him being a slob in between fights than the trinidad fight. any man that lives as unhealthy as fernando cannot expect to fight at a high level for very long. plus it seems that puerto rican fans love to say that their fighters are ruining people. now people are sayign that cotto ruined judah, when cotto took alot of punishment as well during that fight.



This is what a casual fight fan doesnt really understand they think for some reason alls you have to do is train for a few months and your ready there is so much more to it than that, its how you take care of your body, look at Holyfield for example that man has took more punishment than Vargas has, and he is still competing on a high level in this sport at the age of 44.
its not what you do in the gym, another big factor if not the biggest factor is what your doing outside of the gym.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Method @ Aug 31 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]355729[/snapback]
Vargas was NEVER ""always in shape"


I disagree Method, seriously up until after the Tito fight he was always in shape, in between fights because he was so active in his first year and a half as a pro he fought 15 times Between 99 and 2000 and in 2000 he fought six times and the last fight he had in 2000 was against Tito.
you cant fight 15 fights in a year and a half and not always be in shape. do the math a year and a half is 18 months , with 15 fights, that means you have to step on the scale and make weight 15 times basicly he was fighting every month.
Method
QUOTE
"you cant fight 15 fights in a year and a half and not always be in shape. do the math"


LOL. DO THE MATH? You do the math. Since when does a year and a half equate to ALWAYS????????????????? Guy stayed fit for a whopping year? BFD!

By his own admission he was eating one egg white a day to get down for Wright. That ain't too "in shape" to me.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Method @ Aug 31 2007, 10:30 AM) [snapback]355735[/snapback]
LOL. DO THE MATH? You do the math. Since when does a year and a half equate to ALWAYS????????????????? Guy stayed fit for a whopping year? BFD!

By his own admission he was eating one egg white a day to get down for Wright. That ain't too "in shape" to me.



That means every time you saw Vargas before that Trinidad fight he was always in shape, unless you can provide us some proof other wise, you have nothing to support your claim. I think most fans know that Vargas started to fall downwards after that fight with Tito.
Jack 1000
QUOTE(Method @ Aug 31 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]355725[/snapback]
November 23rd is a Friday. This fight gonna be on FNF?


That would be cool Method,

But unfortunately, they don't have the budget for that. I'd be happy with an HBO WCB presentation. It looks like it will still be a PPV. There were some big fights years ago that were closed circuit/ PPV, which were not on Saturday nights.

Frazier-Ali I '71 Monday Night
Hagler-Duran '83 Thursday Night
Hagler-Hearns '85 Monday Night

Many others I am sure, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

Jack


Method
QUOTE
unless you can provide us some proof other wise, you have nothing to support your claim.
I do. I told you what Vargas HIMSELF stated. Thanks.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Aug 31 2007, 01:32 PM) [snapback]355736[/snapback]
I think most fans know that Vargas started to fall downwards after that fight with Tito.


Exactly my point... specifically after that left hook landed in round 1.

After tasting those left hooks in round 1, for the rest of the fight Vargas was stunned by countless shots including mere jabs. In his fights after the Trinidad fight Vargas was stung by similar light shots from Rivera, Flores and others. Show me a fight prior to Trinidad where Vargas was stunned by a jab.

The way Vargas reacted to punches changed in the 1st round against Trinidad. This is not arguable.

X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Sep 1 2007, 12:03 AM) [snapback]355813[/snapback]
Exactly my point... specifically after that left hook landed in round 1.

After tasting those left hooks in round 1, for the rest of the fight Vargas was stunned by countless shots including mere jabs. In his fights after the Trinidad fight Vargas was stung by similar light shots from Rivera, Flores and others. Show me a fight prior to Trinidad where Vargas was stunned by a jab.

The way Vargas reacted to punches changed in the 1st round against Trinidad. This is not arguable.



You can speculate this all you want but you cant deny that Vargas has not been in there with a puncher like Tito leading up to that fight, so to be totally honest with you we just dont know. you can argue Quartey is a puncher but is he a puncher at 154? I dont think so. IMO I doubt it was that first left hook in round one, I doubt it was the second left hook, Vargas has never faced a banger like Tito leading up to the fight so we just dont know if it was Tito or the fact that Vargas didnt have a chin to with stand those kind of shots.
Sure after the fight he got worse and looked worse in fights, but look at the over all punishment he took in the Trinidad fight, it wasnt just one left hook or two it was the 12 rounds of punishment he did take. Give him credit the fight was close going mid way through he did ralley back and drop Tito he did exchange with Trinidad.
my take on the career of Fernando Vargas is this, The Duvas put him in there too early with Trinidad way too early, and after that fight he started to put on that weight not a good thing to do and in between every fight from there on out he continued with those eating habits so if you ask me its a mix of both the punishment he took from Tito and the punishment he put his body through in between fights be starving himself down to make weight.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Sep 1 2007, 12:48 PM) [snapback]355836[/snapback]
You can speculate this all you want but you cant deny that Vargas has not been in there with a puncher like Tito leading up to that fight, so to be totally honest with you we just dont know. you can argue Quartey is a puncher but is he a puncher at 154? I dont think so. IMO I doubt it was that first left hook in round one, I doubt it was the second left hook, Vargas has never faced a banger like Tito leading up to the fight so we just dont know if it was Tito or the fact that Vargas didnt have a chin to with stand those kind of shots.
Sure after the fight he got worse and looked worse in fights, but look at the over all punishment he took in the Trinidad fight, it wasnt just one left hook or two it was the 12 rounds of punishment he did take. Give him credit the fight was close going mid way through he did ralley back and drop Tito he did exchange with Trinidad.
my take on the career of Fernando Vargas is this, The Duvas put him in there too early with Trinidad way too early, and after that fight he started to put on that weight not a good thing to do and in between every fight from there on out he continued with those eating habits so if you ask me its a mix of both the punishment he took from Tito and the punishment he put his body through in between fights be starving himself down to make weight.


Alright I just don't think you're getting it here. Whether or not Vargas had faced a puncher prior to Trinidad has nothing to do with the fact that TRINIDAD ruined Vargas. And give him credit for what? I'm not arguing as to whether or not Vargas fought a competitive fight with Trinidad - I'm telling you that Vargas wasn't able to take punches post Trinidad Round 1 that he was able to take pre Trinidad Round 1. From the moment that first left hook landed Vargas never recovered... in the round, the fight, his career. You keep talking about how it was the full 12 rounds of punishment - yes, that contributed to it... but Vargas was never the same after the FIRST left hook, much less the many that he took over the course of the next 30+ minutes.

X3_Bazooka_X3
BBS-

Seriously I dont understand how you could just attribute the decline of Fernando soley to the beating Trinidad gave him, to me it seems like alls you care about it getting the last word in, you are acting as if your 100% on this and your not, I dont know what your experience in the sport is perhaps your just a spectator but I can tell you this those eating habits did just as much damage to Vargas as those shots from Tito did, to deny this is to out right avoid facts.
your talking about how Vargas was rocked by jabs by lesser fighters after Tito okay, but what happend in the DLH fight? suddenly Vargas got a chin back? or are you going to argue the roids helped him take a better shot?
either way to me it just seems that your only agenda here is to argue what you beleive, rather than to take into consideration other factors. look at Buster Douglas after Tyson and then after Holyfield your not going to tell me his eating habits didnt play a role in his down fall are you? then again you might just to prove your right with your Vargas arguement.
and if you think that Vargas never recovered from that first left hook I will call you a liar, there is no way you can get up and compete at the level he did if he did not recover, maybe if you used the last three knock downs in the fight perhaps that would be better suited to support your claim but as it stands right now, I disagree with you on this, and if you think that bad eating habits do not effect you then your blind, look at James Toney from the Ruiz fight on but I am sure you will have an excuse for that as well.
Kijis Konar
Proof that Trinidad ruined Vargas? Watch Vargas-Rivera.
X3_Bazooka_X3
QUOTE(Kijis Konar @ Sep 1 2007, 12:35 PM) [snapback]355853[/snapback]
Proof that Trinidad ruined Vargas? Watch Vargas-Rivera.



Nobody is saying that Trinidad didnt take something out of Vargas he did, that is a fact, but its also a fact that Vargas has also added to it by eating the way he does, anybody who denies this has to be new to this or has never had to make weight before.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(X3_Bazooka_X3 @ Sep 1 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]355846[/snapback]
BBS-

Seriously I dont understand how you could just attribute the decline of Fernando soley to the beating Trinidad gave him, to me it seems like alls you care about it getting the last word in, you are acting as if your 100% on this and your not, I dont know what your experience in the sport is perhaps your just a spectator but I can tell you this those eating habits did just as much damage to Vargas as those shots from Tito did, to deny this is to out right avoid facts.
your talking about how Vargas was rocked by jabs by lesser fighters after Tito okay, but what happend in the DLH fight? suddenly Vargas got a chin back? or are you going to argue the roids helped him take a better shot?
either way to me it just seems that your only agenda here is to argue what you beleive, rather than to take into consideration other factors. look at Buster Douglas after Tyson and then after Holyfield your not going to tell me his eating habits didnt play a role in his down fall are you? then again you might just to prove your right with your Vargas arguement.
and if you think that Vargas never recovered from that first left hook I will call you a liar, there is no way you can get up and compete at the level he did if he did not recover, maybe if you used the last three knock downs in the fight perhaps that would be better suited to support your claim but as it stands right now, I disagree with you on this, and if you think that bad eating habits do not effect you then your blind, look at James Toney from the Ruiz fight on but I am sure you will have an excuse for that as well.



LMAO you're a piece of work...

Eating habits have NOTHING TO DO with Vargas in round 1 of the Trinidad fight. Did Vargas go on a binge on his stool in between rounds 1 and 2? You are trying to argue a point that has NOTHING to do with my point. You are arguing that Vargas' eating habits contributed to his decline. I have no problem with that argument. While it is speculative it can be supported which you have done so that's alright. What is NOT speculative is watching the way Vargas reacted to punches after the first round of Trinidad fight (and for the rest of his career) verses the way he did BEFORE facing Trinidad.

The rest of your mumbo jumbo really means nothing to me because you're just talking about other fighters like Douglas, Toney etc to back your eating claim which has nothing to do with the point I made.

Southeastpaw
Trinidad was infamous for ruining fighters. Which ending being ironic in a sense.
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