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Mean Mister Mustard
Notes: I anticipate great interest for this fight. We are adding a poll today for responses. On the decision option, we will try something new. A choice of selecting a fighter winning by a wide decision or close decision to see how it goes. Thanks for creating the thread.

Jack

Administrator

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I just went over to TheRing-Online and saw a poll about Taylor versus Pavlik. I glanced at the results and was amazed to read that 46% think that Pavlik will stop Taylor. Which leads me to think that the fight should be called Pavlik-Taylor instead of Taylor-Pavlik.

I have not checked the odds for this fight but it is clear that in the minds of the us fans, Taylor is the underdog. Does Taylor have a shot or is he losing his belt come the 29th?

Will he get stopped? I don't think so, he's a young big tough guy, eager to prove the critics wrong so if Pavlik starts laying it on him I can see Taylor willing himself to the end and maybe get a beating. But getting stopped? I don't know about that.
BrutalBodyShots
While Taylor is still a SLIGHT favorite to win, odds aren't what decides which name comes first. Essentially it is who the champion is, or in the case of two champs the man who beat the man. Taylor beat the man (Hopkins) and is recognized as the man at 160 as a result, so his name will come before anyone elses until he gets beaten.

Generally speaking champions are favored in fights and since their names always come first it would seem that the favorite is named first.

dj necrogenic
How shocking would a 1st Round KO of Taylor be... Come to think of it, I dont think Taylor has been in the ring with a hard puncher
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(dj necrogenic @ Sep 6 2007, 06:08 PM) [snapback]356330[/snapback]
How shocking would a 1st Round KO of Taylor be... Come to think of it, I dont think Taylor has been in the ring with a hard puncher


I'm not actually picking Taylor to be stopped until late, but a 1st round KO isn't out of the question if Pavlik catches him clean within the first few minutes.

I wouldn't really consider taking shots from Ouma, Wright and Spinks as ample warmup for Taylor's chin... LOL.

And you are correct, he has not faced a puncher.

Southeastpaw
I think that Taylor is probably goin to be the underdog come fight time. In the eyes of the boxing writers and analysts anyhow.
Lil-lightsout
Amazing what one win(Miranda), have really made people to pick Pavlik to KO Taylor. I thought Pavlik looked awesome in his last fight, and I think he might KO Jermaine too. But I would not be surprised to see Taylor outbox him and get a comfortable decision win. I think Taylor has alot to prove and will probably rise to the occasion, just to shut people up after his last three performances.Personally, I would love Kelly to KO Taylor.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Sep 6 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]356341[/snapback]
Amazing what one win(Miranda), have really made people to pick Pavlik to KO Taylor.


I actually don't use the Miranda win at all when making my pick of Pavlik KO Taylor; It is simply the fact that Taylor's people have decided not to put him in with a puncher ever for a reason - In my view that reason is that they have seen him get rocked in sparring or what have you and aren't comfortable in doing so. Pavlik is a very big puncher and I have always said that when Taylor faces his first puncher he will lose.


Chi-Town
You guys are making the classic mistake of being caught up in the media hype. JT beat pavlik in the amateurs 8 years ago, has a stronger corner and has fought MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better opposition. In fact, when Taylor was fighting ESPN level competition like Pavlik has his whole career, he looked even better than Pavlik AND fought 3 consecutive fights against the #1 and #2 P4P fighters on earth going 2-0-1. Just take a step back and really think about it for a moment....Pavlik's biggest wins were against a guy 5 inches shorter in Zertuche and the super one-dimensional Miranda....both B level guys. Gotta take my hat off to Bob Arum, he's been making boogeymen out of B and C level fighters for nearly 40 years. Seriously guys, form your own opinions...not the one Bob Arum and HBO are trying to feed you. I pray to GOD that Pavlik is the betting favorite come fight time. I will surely put a significant wager on Taylor. That is not to say that Pavlik has no chance at winning,as he most certainly does because he can match Taylor's size and youth...but the FAVORITE????? Meaning he is LIKELY to win....Fuck no. He's a very live underdog, not the favorite.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Chi-Town @ Sep 6 2007, 11:23 PM) [snapback]356352[/snapback]
You guys are making the classic mistake of being caught up in the media hype. JT beat pavlik in the amateurs 8 years ago, has a stronger corner and has fought MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better opposition. In fact, when Taylor was fighting ESPN level competition like Pavlik has his whole career, he looked even better than Pavlik AND fought 3 consecutive fights against the #1 and #2 P4P fighters on earth going 2-0-1. Just take a step back and really think about it for a moment....Pavlik's biggest wins were against a guy 5 inches shorter in Zertuche and the super one-dimensional Miranda....both B level guys. Gotta take my hat off to Bob Arum, he's been making boogeymen out of B and C level fighters for nearly 40 years. Seriously guys, form your own opinions...not the one Bob Arum and HBO are trying to feed you. I pray to GOD that Pavlik is the betting favorite come fight time. I will surely put a significant wager on Taylor. That is not to say that Pavlik has no chance at winning,as he most certainly does because he can match Taylor's size and youth...but the FAVORITE????? Meaning he is LIKELY to win....Fuck no. He's a very live underdog, not the favorite.


That's all fine and well but guess what? Pavlik is a puncher and Taylor has never faced one - that should tell you something. And it's not like it's a case of Pavlik backers simply hoping for a lightning in a bottle shot to land (Tua or Tyson style) because Pavlik doesn't go out there looking for one shot and throws lots of punches.

_iodine_
Pavlik will do to Jermaine what Ouma would have done to him had he had power. Sorry, Chi, but your boy's goin' down. You're making the mistake of having complete faith in Textbook Boxing. If boxing had a Textbook, no doubt, Jermaine would be on the cover because he does everything a textbook boxer would do and absolutely nothing more. You think Pavlik isn't studying that textbook? You're also falling victim to the fallacy of "He beat him in the amateurs," and I only got one word for ya in that department, kid: Miguel-Fuckin-Cotto.

peace.
alaganza
I'd have to say I like Pavlik in this fight too.

Biggest reason is he's a hard punching, strong, MIDDLEWEIGHT.

Now we can see what JT can do against a guy his own size.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(_iodine_ @ Sep 7 2007, 12:16 AM) [snapback]356355[/snapback]
Pavlik will do to Jermaine what Ouma would have done to him had he had power. Sorry, Chi, but your boy's goin' down. You're making the mistake of having complete faith in Textbook Boxing. If boxing had a Textbook, no doubt, Jermaine would be on the cover because he does everything a textbook boxer would do and absolutely nothing more. You think Pavlik isn't studying that textbook? You're also falling victim to the fallacy of "He beat him in the amateurs," and I only got one word for ya in that department, kid: Miguel-Fuckin-Cotto.

peace.



We agree that the amateurs is no guage as to how this fight will turn out. I remember everyone making a big deal out of a guy named Henry Tillman. Tillman beat Mike Tyson in the amateurs. I think Tyson Ko'd him in the 1st round as a pro. We disagree on Taylor being "textbook." He's damn awkward and uncoordinated. He's an athletic and determined kid. Pavlik will push him. I'm picking Taylor, because he will be right there. Pavlik may be the type of opponent Taylor needs to look good.
_iodine_
The fact that he's awkward and uncoordinated is the reason he heavily relies on the textbook style of boxing. He tries hard and does well but he can't fight going backwards because he just doesn't have the legs of a genuine boxer. Think of what Wright would have done to him if Wright had power. Think of what Ouma would have done to him. Guys with extremely limited power pushed him back and made him look bad. Wright, granted, is one of the pound-for-pound best but Ouma is just a guy that never stops throwing punches and I'm convinced that if Ouma had the power Pavlik does, Taylor would not have made it to the end of that fight.

Taylor is damn good, but when he gets bombed (and he's going to get bombed) how is he going to adapt? That is the Big Question. The hardest Taylor has ever been hit is by Hopkins who isn't really a knockout puncher and Taylor was Rocked by those shots. All Pavlik has to infiltrate is a stiff jab and a few straight rights and you KNOW he already has a plan to get around that because you know he isn't afraid to eat as many as he has to to get his shots in.

Chi-Town
QUOTE(_iodine_ @ Sep 6 2007, 11:16 PM) [snapback]356355[/snapback]
Pavlik will do to Jermaine what Ouma would have done to him had he had power. Sorry, Chi, but your boy's goin' down. You're making the mistake of having complete faith in Textbook Boxing. If boxing had a Textbook, no doubt, Jermaine would be on the cover because he does everything a textbook boxer would do and absolutely nothing more. You think Pavlik isn't studying that textbook? You're also falling victim to the fallacy of "He beat him in the amateurs," and I only got one word for ya in that department, kid: Miguel-Fuckin-Cotto.

peace.


Taylor's not my boy....I really wouldn't consider myself to be a huge fan of either guy....again I say that I'm not saying that Taylor has this one in the bag.....I'm saying that there is no way that Taylor can not be the favorite going in.....slight favorite, big favorite, whatever...my argument was that it is inconcievable that Pavlik who has fought only C level fighters with the exception of two possible B level guys, would be the favorite. I know that there are many fighters that avenge amateur losses in the pros....who would be stupid enough to think that just because it happened back then that its a sure thing now...In my opinion its simply a variable among the others that have been discussed that factor into why JT is a favorite...just a variable. More importantly...Kelly Pavlik is no Miguel Cotto and Jermain Taylor is not Muhammad Abdulaev.
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(Lil-lightsout @ Sep 6 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]356341[/snapback]
Amazing what one win(Miranda), have really made people to pick Pavlik to KO Taylor. I thought Pavlik looked awesome in his last fight, and I think he might KO Jermaine too. But I would not be surprised to see Taylor outbox him and get a comfortable decision win. I think Taylor has alot to prove and will probably rise to the occasion, just to shut people up after his last three performances.Personally, I would love Kelly to KO Taylor.


Yes, it would be amazing for one to pick Pavlik after one win, that is why most are picking him for more than that one win. Personally, I thought that Pavlik was going to rule the division before his fight with Miranda. Pavlik has the size and power to match and surpass Taylor. When was the last time Taylor won a match convincingly? He very well could have lost 4 of his last 5 bouts. And only Hopkins had semi power but no where near the pressure, workrate, and power of Pavlik. Styles make fights, we all know this. Pavlik is going to be pushing Taylor back the entire fight. Pavlik has some good wins, dominate wins. I hate when people use the amatuers as a measuring stick. Whole different world. Pavlik has a HUGE chance at coming out the victor. I am giving Taylor a small chance at the win. Taylor has shown fatigue and dropped workrate as a fight goes. That will be his demise in this fight.
BigG
I agree that Pavlik being very overrated. In his last fight, he looked good beating a fighter with little defense. People forget that Jermain is a very strong fighter himself and very talented as well. It's a 50-50 fight.
Southeastpaw
BG, if your giving Pavlik a 50/50 chance at beating the current champion, I don't think he would be "very" overrated at all. I can see where people might think he is being overrated a tad and hyped up, but I believe he is going to live up to it come the end of the month with a good performance against Taylor.

I don't think that Taylor is all that talented. He has, or should I say, had a great jab and the physical attributes and power to sustain him some decent wins at 160. Put Pavlik is a big middle with power and an incredible workrate. Taylor is going to have to get that jab going big-time and keep Pavlik honest if he stands a chance in this fight.
Tha Docta
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Sep 7 2007, 11:49 AM) [snapback]356392[/snapback]
BG, if your giving Pavlik a 50/50 chance at beating the current champion, I don't think he would be "very" overrated at all. I can see where people might think he is being overrated a tad and hyped up, but I believe he is going to live up to it come the end of the month with a good performance against Taylor.

I don't think that Taylor is all that talented. He has, or should I say, had a great jab and the physical attributes and power to sustain him some decent wins at 160. Put Pavlik is a big middle with power and an incredible workrate. Taylor is going to have to get that jab going big-time and keep Pavlik honest if he stands a chance in this fight.



id give taylor the edge in this fight. i think a guy like pavlik will bring out the best in jermaine.
Mean Mister Mustard
Jermaine has power too and if he throws enough flashy combos he could steal the fight. Jermain's got handspeed over Pavlik, he should use it.
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Sep 7 2007, 08:58 PM) [snapback]356464[/snapback]
Jermaine has power too and if he throws enough flashy combos he could steal the fight. Jermain's got handspeed over Pavlik, he should use it.


The flashy combos could steal him rounds, but Taylor's power I don't think will be much of a factor. If Pavlik could walk through Miranda's bombs he certainly can walk through Taylor's.

kdh
Taylor was unimpressive in his last fight, which Pavlik was on the undercard of. Watching them back to back like that is probably what's skewing people in that direction. If that night was one of Pavlik's best and Taylor's worst, then yeah, an easy win for Taylor. But if that's a sign of how Taylor's going to fight the next time around, I give Pavlik a good chance.
neophyte7
Someone above made the comment that Taylor is damned good?? Please, he has not looked damned good in his last three fights... all bouts that he promised KO's... I had his fight with Cory Spinks a draw. Spinks buzzed Taylor a few times with right hand counters in that bout. Taylor does not have good punching technique and will be sloppily flailing his monkey ass arms with that lazy jab by round 4. Pavlik has a better chin, a good jab, and KO power. Taylor has not had a kO in a few years now (LMAO). IF TAYLOR suprises me I eat crow, but I see him getting his ARSE kicked... he simply is not good enough to keep a skilled big middle away from his suspect chin. Hell, Winky Wright was able to stalk him and he has no power!!! Pavlik by stoppage in 9 is my pick
Fitz
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Sep 11 2007, 11:58 AM) [snapback]356973[/snapback]
Please, he has not looked damned good in his last three fights... all bouts that he promised KO's...


I agree with a lot of your post, but this little part is a little unfair. What fighter doesn't promise KO's? That something a fighter ALWAYS says leading into a fight. What fighter is like, "yeah come Saturday night I am going to outbox him to a 12 round decision?"
neophyte7
Dude, all of his last three opponents were said to be guys where Taylor could look exciting and get a KO... Wright was supposed to get steam rolled according to many who felt Taylor had so much size and power??? Ouma was supposed to be a bout in which he was to showcase his talent and power, and finally Spinks LMAO- Taylor struggled to get at Spinks. If Bernard Hopkins at 42 would have went the distance with Cory Spinks in the manner that Taylor did, people would be calling for Hop to leave the Sport!!
Fitz
I understand your point. I agree that he should have definitely knocked out Spinks. I'm just saying that a fighter will always say he is going to get a KO, even if they are fighting someone with a granite chin and never been down before.
The Original MrFactor
In defense of JT, not many cats are going to KO, Hopkins, Wright, Ouma, and Spinks. Those guys are world class fighters and better than ALL of the guys Pavlik has ever faced, combined. Hopkins, Wright and Spinks are all safety first guys. I think Taylor SHOULD have KO'd Ouma, but didnt. he did beat Ouma up pretty bad. I dont know that Pavlik beats all of the aforementioned group of elites. In fact, why is Pavliks power rated so high. Who has he KO'd that was world class?? No One. Like Taylor, when he was coming up through the ranks, Pavlik has KO'd your standard issue up and comers. In his biggest fight he beat Miranda, a limited guy with who is easy to hit with bombs. It was impressive to watch, but not really unexpected. Dont get me wrong, I think JT will be hit, but so will KP. Ultimately, I think the speedier more experienced guy wins this one. This is put up or shut up for Taylor. There will not be a close decision here going his way. This fight will have to end in a stoppage either way.

I think many are basing their opinions of Pavlik strongly on one fight against Miranda. I dont think thats fair to Taylor. Taylor fought 4 world class champs or former champs to close fights and went 4-0-1. Pavlik fights Miranda who is another up and comer and becomes a world beater.
moscow bear
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Sep 11 2007, 05:49 AM) [snapback]356996[/snapback]
In defense of JT, not many cats are going to KO, Hopkins, Wright, Ouma, and Spinks. Those guys are world class fighters and better than ALL of the guys Pavlik has ever faced, combined. Hopkins, Wright and Spinks are all safety first guys. I think Taylor SHOULD have KO'd Ouma, but didnt. he did beat Ouma up pretty bad. I dont know that Pavlik beats all of the aforementioned group of elites. In fact, why is Pavliks power rated so high. Who has he KO'd that was world class?? No One. Like Taylor, when he was coming up through the ranks, Pavlik has KO'd your standard issue up and comers. In his biggest fight he beat Miranda, a limited guy with who is easy to hit with bombs. It was impressive to watch, but not really unexpected. Dont get me wrong, I think JT will be hit, but so will KP. Ultimately, I think the speedier more experienced guy wins this one. This is put up or shut up for Taylor. There will not be a close decision here going his way. This fight will have to end in a stoppage either way.

I think many are basing their opinions of Pavlik strongly on one fight against Miranda. I dont think thats fair to Taylor. Taylor fought 4 world class champs or former champs to close fights and went 4-0-1. Pavlik fights Miranda who is another up and comer and becomes a world beater.


well, many people where surprised when Pavlik stopped McCart with a body shot (i think). McCart, although a true light-middle, had never been stopped before.
Chi-Town
QUOTE(neophyte7 @ Sep 10 2007, 09:07 PM) [snapback]356975[/snapback]
Dude, all of his last three opponents were said to be guys where Taylor could look exciting and get a KO... Wright was supposed to get steam rolled according to many who felt Taylor had so much size and power??? Ouma was supposed to be a bout in which he was to showcase his talent and power, and finally Spinks LMAO- Taylor struggled to get at Spinks. If Bernard Hopkins at 42 would have went the distance with Cory Spinks in the manner that Taylor did, people would be calling for Hop to leave the Sport!!


Again...all three of those fights were against A level guys.... to date Pavlik has fought zero "A" level fighters. Furthermore, Taylor was landing homeruns on Ouma I think its more of a compliment to Ouma than a knock on Taylor that Ouma finished on his feet.
caneman
QUOTE(Chi-Town @ Sep 11 2007, 12:38 PM) [snapback]357041[/snapback]
Again...all three of those fights were against A level guys.... to date Pavlik has fought zero "A" level fighters. Furthermore, Taylor was landing homeruns on Ouma I think its more of a compliment to Ouma than a knock on Taylor that Ouma finished on his feet.



ok, well judah KOed spinks & taylor didn't even rock him! i believe taylor will be KOed inside of 8 rounds & am willing to do a signature bet with anyone willing! while i agree somewhat on the A level thing, it just will not matter! drinks.gif
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE(caneman @ Sep 11 2007, 05:55 PM) [snapback]357084[/snapback]
ok, well judah KOed spinks & taylor didn't even rock him! i believe taylor will be KOed inside of 8 rounds & am willing to do a signature bet with anyone willing! while i agree somewhat on the A level thing, it just will not matter! drinks.gif



I think its safe to say Judah's alot faster than Taylor. Also Spinks didnt give Zab near as much respect as he did taylor. And ultimately, you may be right. Once a guy gets hit all else goes out the door. Taylor will be hit, but so will KP...
BrutalBodyShots
If Judah who has lost a bunch of times 2 divisions below knocked out Spinks I see little reason to believe that "the man" 2 divisions higher shouldn't have been expected to do so - and that was evidenced by about 90% of the population predicting that Taylor would stop Spinks. The fact that he didn't stop him means that Taylor did NOT live up to expectations, as least for that fight.

BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(The Original MrFactor @ Sep 11 2007, 01:49 AM) [snapback]356996[/snapback]
I think many are basing their opinions of Pavlik strongly on one fight against Miranda. I dont think thats fair to Taylor. Taylor fought 4 world class champs or former champs to close fights and went 4-0-1. Pavlik fights Miranda who is another up and comer and becomes a world beater.


I disagree. I would have picked Pavlik over Taylor if the Miranda fight never happened. And I don't think Pavlik is a world beater and think he'll have problems with PLENTY of other fighters. I always said that when Taylor faced a puncher for the first time he would lose, and his first time will be against Pavlik.

Mean Mister Mustard
Yeah, because when you think about it, everytime Taylor is pressured he backs off into the ropes, takes a few shots and then holds. Taylor's inside game is basically to hold or sometimes he throws some mean shots and then holds, but he cannot hang in with a guy in the inside for 12 rounds. He needs distance to fire his punches because he has long ass arms.

It's like I pointed out before: Miranda had long ass arms and Pavlik knew that he had to fight him on the inside in order to neutralize his power. And he did. Now Taylor has more compact punches than Miranda but still, he cannot fight on the inside. At least not as well as Pavlik can.
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Sep 11 2007, 06:47 PM) [snapback]357089[/snapback]
I disagree. I would have picked Pavlik over Taylor if the Miranda fight never happened. And I don't think Pavlik is a world beater and think he'll have problems with PLENTY of other fighters. I always said that when Taylor faced a puncher for the first time he would lose, and his first time will be against Pavlik.


I agree with the base of your debate, although I think that Pavlik is a world beater and should rule the division defending his title against all the top TRUE middleweights.
caneman
QUOTE(Mean Mister Mustard @ Sep 11 2007, 06:54 PM) [snapback]357090[/snapback]
Yeah, because when you think about it, everytime Taylor is pressured he backs off into the ropes, takes a few shots and then holds. Taylor's inside game is basically to hold or sometimes he throws some mean shots and then holds, but he cannot hang in with a guy in the inside for 12 rounds. He needs distance to fire his punches because he has long ass arms.

It's like I pointed out before: Miranda had long ass arms and Pavlik knew that he had to fight him on the inside in order to neutralize his power. And he did. Now Taylor has more compact punches than Miranda but still, he cannot fight on the inside. At least not as well as Pavlik can.



it was a little more than just that bro, he knew that pantera had trouble fighting going backward & guess what, so does taylor! if the fight isn't in the center of the ring in a side to side fight, taylor loses ground. much smaller guys have pressured taylor back into the ropes & make my words, even if does bring out the best in taylor...he he be backed up, so basically there is only one way for taylor to win IMO...that is be putting on a boxing clinic which will not happen unless it's down @ the YMCA with a bunch of kids! i have to admit, i am setting myself up to eat some crow but i haven't felt see strongly about a fight since tito/hopkins! that is based on what i see over all...not just hating on taylor! we are going to see what kinda chin taylor has in this fight and @ the end we will see taylor face down & ass up. and oh yea, it's not that i don't think taylor will have some moments but they will be few & far between if the ghost pushes the action like i know he will! have a great y'all, i am outta here!
Southeastpaw
I think this fight boils down to whoever can back their opponent up. I have seen JT get backed up by Junior middles, and he does not fight well being backed up, although he does fight well going forward pumping his jab. Now I do not know how Pavlik fights going backwards because he has never faced a guy who has been able to make him go backwards. So I believe Pavlik's plan going into this fight is most likely going to mirror his plan going into the Miranda fight. Keep Taylor going backwards. And from what I have seen thus far, Pavlik should be able to do this. Sure Taylor has fought a better class of opposition. But it has been smaller, light hitting opposition that he has struggled with immensley. And while Pavlik has not faced that top competition, his competition has not been soft by any means. McKart and Miranda are no push-overs and he beat them in a very impressive manner. Zuniga is also no pushover and has a terrific workrate.

You guys can argue that Taylor has fought the better opposition and use it to validate picking him. But I don't buy. Since when does an up and coming fighter NEED to have that quality of opposition to be picked. I see what I see, just because Pavlik has not faced it yet does not mean that he should lose. If that were the case, every fighter in history should have at least one loss on their record atthe exact point in time when they stepped up to that top level of comp. Pavlik is going to be a nightmare for Taylor. If Winky could pressure Taylor to the ropes and lump him up, imagine what Pavlik is going to do to him.
Chi-Town
QUOTE(caneman @ Sep 14 2007, 07:13 AM) [snapback]357449[/snapback]
it was a little more than just that bro, he knew that pantera had trouble fighting going backward & guess what, so does taylor! if the fight isn't in the center of the ring in a side to side fight, taylor loses ground. much smaller guys have pressured taylor back into the ropes & make my words, even if does bring out the best in taylor...he he be backed up, so basically there is only one way for taylor to win IMO...that is be putting on a boxing clinic which will not happen unless it's down @ the YMCA with a bunch of kids! i have to admit, i am setting myself up to eat some crow but i haven't felt see strongly about a fight since tito/hopkins! that is based on what i see over all...not just hating on taylor! we are going to see what kinda chin taylor has in this fight and @ the end we will see taylor face down & ass up. and oh yea, it's not that i don't think taylor will have some moments but they will be few & far between if the ghost pushes the action like i know he will! have a great y'all, i am outta here!


You make some great points here...good post.
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(caneman @ Sep 14 2007, 08:13 AM) [snapback]357449[/snapback]
it was a little more than just that bro, he knew that pantera had trouble fighting going backward & guess what, so does taylor! if the fight isn't in the center of the ring in a side to side fight, taylor loses ground. much smaller guys have pressured taylor back into the ropes & make my words, even if does bring out the best in taylor...he he be backed up, so basically there is only one way for taylor to win IMO...that is be putting on a boxing clinic which will not happen unless it's down @ the YMCA with a bunch of kids! i have to admit, i am setting myself up to eat some crow but i haven't felt see strongly about a fight since tito/hopkins! that is based on what i see over all...not just hating on taylor! we are going to see what kinda chin taylor has in this fight and @ the end we will see taylor face down & ass up. and oh yea, it's not that i don't think taylor will have some moments but they will be few & far between if the ghost pushes the action like i know he will! have a great y'all, i am outta here!



Oh shit! Sry man. I posted right after you with the same idea in mind. I did not read yours before i posted or else I wouldn't have been ramblin on about the same point. But great observation. lol. Taylor does have trouble fighting going backwards and will get punished by Taylor. I can't wait. clapping.gif
caneman
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Sep 14 2007, 12:10 PM) [snapback]357464[/snapback]
Oh shit! Sry man. I posted right after you with the same idea in mind. I did not read yours before i posted or else I wouldn't have been ramblin on about the same point. But great observation. lol. Taylor does have trouble fighting going backwards and will get punished by Taylor. I can't wait. clapping.gif



it's all good bro, the thing that amazes me is that people see this fight going any other way(oh yea sorry about all the typing mistakes but i had to roll, fucking school zones suck! lol)one thing i did not address was the power factor, not that i should have to. but lets face it, what does taylor have to keep the ghost off his ass? people say the jab, the jab...hmmmmm well lets take this step further! does kelly need to set his feet to throw a punch? NO! cause he has good footwork. can JT box so well that he can stay in the center of the ring & jab & throw str8 rights all night? i don't think so @ all! (this is what JT will try though) can JT take a good, hard & very str8 punch? we don't know @ this point. all i do know is that pantera had nothing that could stop kelly from doing his work, kelly's punches were str8, foot work was very good( i say B+ min), he took big shots flesh & walked right threw them like they weren't shit. so can kelly take a hard shot? YES! does kelly jab well & show more than just power? YES! can kelly cut off the ring & put combos together? YES! oh yeah, to be fair, does JT have a better level of comp? YES! does all this shit i am typing mean much? in some ways NO cause they still have to fight. i just wish that kelly would say that he hurt his right hand so the odds would be bigger cause i would LOVE to put a grand on the ghost just like i did with hopkins! especially @ the same odds...that $4500 was sweet! drinks.gif
BigG
This will be a helluva fight. Say what you want about Jermain.....but he brings it everytime he fights. He did give Wright and Hopkins close fights.

caneman
QUOTE(biggeorge89 @ Sep 14 2007, 10:11 PM) [snapback]357520[/snapback]
This will be a helluva fight. Say what you want about Jermain.....but he brings it everytime he fights. He did give Wright and Hopkins close fights.


and you have to give him his due for that but many think JT is 1-4 in his last 5 fights. it could be a very interesting fight...i just believe that JT will lose by KO or TKO & that's based on what he brings to his fights, winky & hopkins including!
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(caneman @ Sep 14 2007, 10:36 PM) [snapback]357523[/snapback]
and you have to give him his due for that but many think JT is 1-4 in his last 5 fights.


I don't know ANYONE that believes that Taylor lost to Hopkins, Wright, Ouma AND Spinks. Anyone that says that obviously just hates Taylor.

caneman
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Sep 14 2007, 10:49 PM) [snapback]357526[/snapback]
I don't know ANYONE that believes that Taylor lost to Hopkins, Wright, Ouma AND Spinks. Anyone that says that obviously just hates Taylor.



actually bro, it was spinks, winky & hopkins...while i disagree(with 1-4 myself), if you really look what was landed, i can see their point even if i don't agree! to be honest with you, i knew the judges would see it JT's way vs hopkins in both fights even if i didn't agree! i thought winky won(judges didn't in that one either), and in the spinks fight, it was WAY closer than it should have been & i don't care if spinks is hard to hit....spinks should have been KOed inside of 4 rounds IMO! think about it, he was @ 147 less than 2 years ago, right?
Southeastpaw
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Sep 14 2007, 10:49 PM) [snapback]357526[/snapback]
I don't know ANYONE that believes that Taylor lost to Hopkins, Wright, Ouma AND Spinks. Anyone that says that obviously just hates Taylor.


I know that many people on this very board thought that Hopkins won that first fight hands down. I have some respectable, knowledgeable boxing fan/friends that believe Winky won the fight with JT. I thought JT eeked it out though, but it depended on what one was lookin at exactly. And I actually thought that the Spinks fight was a draw. Could have gone either way. BUt Spinks looked the much more technically sound of the two, which is usually the case with JT's opponents. Most believe that Ouma lost that fight. But JT was having a HELL of a time with Ouma. JT has STRUGGLED his ass off with his last fouor opponents. I am actually thinking about throwin out some dough on the ghost as well.

This is the beautiful thing about a guy comin from outta the shadows that many don't really know about. Gives the more knowledgable guys a chance to make some nice cashola wink.gif . If JT pulls this off I will come on and be critisized which I should be rightfully so and my wallet will be a little lighter, but I HIGHLY doubt JT will pull out a victory in this.
caneman
i agree that JT won't be pulling anything off...i am sorry, i can't picture how! well that is not true...he either puts on a serious boxing clinic or loses by KO or TKO! i wanna say str8 up KO but i see manny stepping in to stop the punishment, JT will be on the ropes in any case & trust me, both guys will be bleeding! black eye.gif
salvador
QUOTE(Southeastpaw @ Sep 14 2007, 11:04 PM) [snapback]357529[/snapback]
This is the beautiful thing about a guy comin from outta the shadows that many don't really know about. Gives the more knowledgable guys a chance to make some nice cashola wink.gif .


I agree about the beauty of that inefficiency, but there are two case specific flaws with this particular situation. The first is that Pavlik is white, which brings some irrational money onto the scales. (It always amazes me that King is so desperate to get white fighters, but then again Golota kept packin' 'em in for years after he was discredited, so what do I know?) The second flaw is that Pavlik made his name with most fans by fighting a one-dimensional loud-mouthed fighter. I love Miranda, but he's a second tier fighter and Pavlik was brought into that fight almost as the underdog - making the win more dramatic than it actually was.

It's just really hard for me to believe that JT/Steward are doing ANYTHING right now other than working on his jab and his footwork. Everything else will take care of itself.


Method
I like Taylor's chances in this one. I think he's being discounted here. At even money, versus a conventional fighter with a resume that doesn't stand up to Jermain's, I'll wait for Taylor to get his ass kicked before I'll lay this loss on him. If he loses, so be it.
gods son
as a betting man , who would u lay your cash on?
BrutalBodyShots
QUOTE(caneman @ Sep 14 2007, 10:59 PM) [snapback]357528[/snapback]
actually bro, it was spinks, winky & hopkins...while i disagree(with 1-4 myself), if you really look what was landed, i can see their point even if i don't agree! to be honest with you, i knew the judges would see it JT's way vs hopkins in both fights even if i didn't agree! i thought winky won(judges didn't in that one either), and in the spinks fight, it was WAY closer than it should have been & i don't care if spinks is hard to hit....spinks should have been KOed inside of 4 rounds IMO! think about it, he was @ 147 less than 2 years ago, right?


So since Taylor didn't blow Spinks out in 4 like he "should have" that win is discredited to a near loss on Taylor's part? LOL

I too believe that Taylor fought close fights with the above mentioned guys and I thought Hopkins beat him as well... but no unbiased person would say that they really believe that Taylor is 1-4 in his last 5 fights.

caneman
QUOTE(BrutalBodyShots @ Sep 19 2007, 12:52 AM) [snapback]357885[/snapback]
So since Taylor didn't blow Spinks out in 4 like he "should have" that win is discredited to a near loss on Taylor's part? LOL

I too believe that Taylor fought close fights with the above mentioned guys and I thought Hopkins beat him as well... but no unbiased person would say that they really believe that Taylor is 1-4 in his last 5 fights.



i am not saying i believe he is 1-4 in his last 5 bro & no where can you show me where i did! and yes, for the record, i believe he should have blown spinks out! i mainly say that cause judah did 2 weight classes lower, sorry but that's how i feel on the subject! and something else too, spinks backed taylor up a few times in the fight, what you think the ghost will do?
NOW I WILL REPEAT MYSELF AGAIN TO ANYONE WHO WANTS SOME....I WILL COVER ANY SIGNATURE BET THAT ANYONE WANTS TO MAKE ON TAYLOR/PAVLIK! A SIG BET IS SIMPLE, IF PAVLIK WINS, I MAKE YOUR FOR A WEEK(OR LONGER IF YOU WANT)& IF TAYLOR WINS, YOU MAKE UP MY SIG FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME! HIT A CRACKER UP IF YOU ARE DOWN! I LOOK FORWARD TO OWNING YOUR SIG! drinks.gif
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