QUOTE(salvador @ Oct 2 2007, 11:03 AM) [snapback]359516[/snapback]
I hate to disappoint you, but I ain't joking. I'd take Williams' win over Margarito every day of the week over Cotto's win over Judah.
I don't think that going to a fight makes you appreciate a fighter any more than watching him on tv (actually tv is probably better), but I was at Margarito-Williams and I'm telling you he TOWERED over Margarito. His arms are just so long and he's so tall and he never stops throwing punches and, most importantly, he can take a great shot. I seriously don't think there's anyone at ww who can beat him, particularly not Cotto who's only 5'7". Cotto's way too short for Williams and I don't think there's a chance in hell Arum would ever be stupid enough to throw him in with Williams. So given that I think Williams would beat Cotto, I would put him ahead of him on a p4p list. How is that contraversial?
And to me, p4p means who is the best fighter right now, not yesterday. I love Barrera and I'm giving him much more of a chance against Pacquiao than I probably should be simply because of his glorious past, but I'm not even sure that Barrera is in the top 3 fighters at 130 anymore. The Barrera who beat Naz would be top 3 of any p4p list, but that was a long time ago. Right now, Williams is in his absolute prime and, on a p4p basis, he's way more dangerous/feared than Barrera.
Vasquez and Marquez are both great, but there's nothing about either of them that would make Floyd Mayweather duck them if Floyd was fighting at 122. Floyd ain't getting anywhere near WIlliams for a reason.
And I'd take Williams' win over Margarito over Diaz's win over Freitas all day as well.
I don't think WIlliams has the skills of the typical p4p guy, but his physical attributes more than make up for any shortcomings he has in technique. And to me, p4p is all about what someone brings to the ring, not about how pretty they look doing it.
As far as Clottey is concerned, I think that he's the most underrated guy in the sport and I predict he'll have a hell of a hard time finding anyone who will fight him as well.
And Pavlik's ko of JT speaks for itself.
Sal, you and I see eye to eye on where Williams is and what he is capable of. I understand exactly what you are talking about. I believe that by far Williams is the best ww and that Pavlik is the best mw. But I feel that a P4P spot has to be earned. I used Tarver as an example. Going by your point of view, Tarver probably should have been #1 P4P after his win over Jones, cause that was a HUGE feat. Especially at what Jones had just accomplished coupled with how long he had reigned the P4P king. But that just isn't fair. The guys I put before Williams and Pavlik are there because they earned it. I'm almost positive that Pav and Williams are going to get far up that list and I agree with you that they are better NOW. Now don't get me wrong, the wins have to be clean, clear wins which is why I had a hard time with Taylor up there, but his undecisive wins were against other top P4Pers, so I guess it was alright. I do not even rank Hatton because he is dirty and has a loss as far as I'm concerned.
But Sal, I agree with you that Williams and Pavlik are the truth in their respective weight classes.
As far as Clottey is concerned. He is the goods, but he did lose to Margarito, so I cannot rank over Margarito who I don't even have in there.
Barrera still showed that he had the goods in his fight with Marquez. I rate Juan very high and Barrera gave a very good account of himself in that fight even in defeat. Barrera deserves a spot as far as I'm concerned.
Sal, you know how big I have been on Williams, anyone who is familiar with me knows that I have been his biggest supporter for the past few years. AAnd you know I am a huge Pavlik supporter as well. But I have to be fair. I guess it all boils down to the way we think that a P4P list should be structured. You saw what happened with Tarver. I never had that fool on a P4P list. He never belonged on one. I give him some credit for his win over Jones, but I personally think he caught Jones while he was ripe for the pickins.
Just my take bro.